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Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 3:54:44 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Many people can be hardliners in the P&R section like myself. So I am suggesting another form of interesting debate.
Why do you believe there is a God or no God, heaven or hell.
Maybe you don't believe in God but you believe there is more to life or an afterlife.
Some believe in aliens or spirits and ghosts.
Others believe that quantum theory is the answer to all these questions.

What I would like to see is your best argument why you believe in anything.
I am not gonna bash or debase nor devalue your belief. I am just very interested in your best argument.

I believe to a certain extent there is one God. Actually in my definition I am certain there is, cause my One Perfect Being is Nature. I have done some reasoning of this before, claiming nature has logic and therefore is an intelligent being. And it gives me peace of mind and a deep respect for the forces of nature. Last but not least it keeps me connected with most people who are monotheistic. I have long considered myself an atheist, but this position of having a godlike being in my life does enrich it, I must admit.
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 4:23:55 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

Well that is a hard question and I do not have one single reply for you. For me I have had many spiritual experiences. I am an Pagan and an occultist and I am also multi religious in that I think every religion is just one more way to speak with Divinity, one more language. Anyway part of why I believe is personal experience, another part is that it just feels right for me to believe this, it fills my life with meaning. Now I do not know if that is making a good case for my believes and I do not really care to, for me my religious believes are right for me, but I do not care if others believe the same or if they disagree with me, like I said I do not think there is one truth, I think there are many truth and that each individual have to find their own path.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 4:54:32 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Science. It goes back further than Religion and is provable.

(in reply to nephandi)
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 5:23:25 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
What I would like to see is your best argument why you believe in anything.

I do not believe anything, so I cannot answer that question.

However ... From about 1990 until 1995 I developed my own cosmology and pondering universal constants and such, I deduced the 'existence' of something that must be a binary computer 'larger' than the two universes. (Since such concepts as 'larger' and 'existence' and 'things' and 'outside' are meaningless when applied to 'things' 'outside' our universe, I put the concepts between upper comma's.)

Secondly, there is my personal experience of various miracles.

I am not religious. I am an atheist by nature. I have never won any large sum of money in a lottery.

But for the two reasons stated above, I do know that the Divine exists. (I am here avoiding the corrupted concept of 'God'.)

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 5:43:08 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		I believe in God because I....feel Him, in a sense. I see Him in so many things because my eyes are open to Him. I have faith that things are planned. There are so many things in life that I see or that happen to me, that have to be bc of Him. One or two things may be coincidence. But the amount of blessings, protection, love, grace etc I have witnessed is not by chance. I have a relationship with God. I talk and there are times, in His way, He answers back. I've often heard that religion is due to geography. Meaning depending on where you live is depending on who or what you serve. But in the grand scheme of things, is it not usually a higher being?

We as humans don't know as much as we think. In saying that, there are far too many wonders in life to have a close mind to the possibility. Therefore, I have faith. I do believe in science. I believe He gave us the power and knowledge to explore, and experiment. But ultimately, I believe He is first and last.

I could be wrong, and if so, then I'll die and be worm food. No big deal. But oh gosh, I'd hate to miss out if I was right. Not just because of the promised things of Heaven, but more so being near something so magnificent.

< Message edited by TNDommeK -- 6/12/2013 5:44:55 PM >

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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 5:47:40 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Many people can be hardliners in the P&R section like myself. So I am suggesting another form of interesting debate.
Why do you believe there is a God or no God, heaven or hell.
Maybe you don't believe in God but you believe there is more to life or an afterlife.
Some believe in aliens or spirits and ghosts.
Others believe that quantum theory is the answer to all these questions.

What I would like to see is your best argument why you believe in anything.
I am not gonna bash or debase nor devalue your belief. I am just very interested in your best argument.

I believe to a certain extent there is one God. Actually in my definition I am certain there is, cause my One Perfect Being is Nature. I have done some reasoning of this before, claiming nature has logic and therefore is an intelligent being. And it gives me peace of mind and a deep respect for the forces of nature. Last but not least it keeps me connected with most people who are monotheistic. I have long considered myself an atheist, but this position of having a godlike being in my life does enrich it, I must admit.


I believe there is a God or no God.

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 6:25:51 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		It seems just as reasonable to believe that matter/energy has always existed as to believe there is an eternal, non-material being. Well, in truth it is more reasonable to me. The human mind requires a First Cause. Neither of the above beliefs satisfies that need in us. You can't always get what you want. :::shrugs:::

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 9:25:17 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Why do I believe in God? Faith

I mean, I really have no other idea how to answer that. To think there is no God would make for an unhappy life for me.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 10:00:57 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'm agnostic, leaning heavily towards atheistic. I don't believe in a Heaven or hell, and I don't believe in an afterlife. I'd like to believe in such things, but when I look around I simply don't see much of anything that supports such beliefs. But there is one thing that makes me stop and wonder...I look at the immense complexity of most life forms, especially the higher life forms, but everything from bugs on up to reptiles and mammals...and I have to wonder if such things could really have happened just by chance, even with millions of years of "evolution".

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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 10:32:06 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I see the existence of God as irrelevant one way or the other. I'm sure he can mange fine without me to help him.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/12/2013 10:50:53 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		Igor, that's kinda how I view things as well. How complex certain things are. I don't think evolution could work that fast.

And LW, I agree. Faith is awesome.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 1:48:49 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		It's good to see many views and it confirms a little how everybody is unique. On the other hand many emotions stem from the same root.
Personally I am not in favor of the theory of chance. To explain this in simple terms. Nature prescribes that there must be certain conditions for material to form. The law of nature. Even an explosion is not random as to how it expands and blows out matter. It can all be calculated. The only true wonder I still love to ponder on is quantum mechanics. To me that is still a little bit of magic. But we are beginning to understand the science and nature behind that as well.

That brings me to the conclusion that we solve most mysteries. Downside of it maybe that we loose, that what was once magical and is now explained. That to me would leave only one magical thing for all times. Love.
It is a little sad though, future generations have less to discover. Cause that is a big motor of human nature.
I am excited to live in this era, cause these are times of great change.
Like the awakening of the soul.

(in reply to TNDommeK)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 2:48:59 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
the soul.

...

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 10:50:23 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Science. It goes back further than Religion and is provable.

Science goes back farther than religion? On what planet? And when did Science deliver a negative finding on the existence of a greater reality?

Everything we know about Nature is in accord with the idea that the fundamental process of Nature lies outside space-time ~Henry Stapp

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/13/2013 10:56:51 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 4:27:30 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Science. It goes back further than Religion and is provable.

Science goes back farther than religion? On what planet? And when did Science deliver a negative finding on the existence of a greater reality?

Everything we know about Nature is in accord with the idea that the fundamental process of Nature lies outside space-time ~Henry Stapp

K.



on this planet as it's the only one we know of with life on it.
Religion is a luxury.
Surely science is about intelligent beings learning and experimenting and evolving. Now it is about DNA and Hadron colliders, 2000 years ago it was simple geometry and people sitting in a bath and shouting eureka!

Many many thousands of years before that it was "people" trying to stay alive by working out how to kill an animal. Throwing rocks was one way, throwing spears was even better, oh why not tie a sharp bit of stone to a spear and throw that, job done. Science wasn't quite how we view it but it was science just the same and these people were not evolved enough to have any concept of god, they were just trying to stay alive.

All sentient beings on this planet were using science in one form or another before this god construct ever existed

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 4:36:05 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
Joined: 2/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

I believe in God because I....feel Him, in a sense. I see Him in so many things because my eyes are open to Him. I have faith that things are planned. There are so many things in life that I see or that happen to me, that have to be bc of Him. One or two things may be coincidence. But the amount of blessings, protection, love, grace etc I have witnessed is not by chance. I have a relationship with God. I talk and there are times, in His way, He answers back. I've often heard that religion is due to geography. Meaning depending on where you live is depending on who or what you serve. But in the grand scheme of things, is it not usually a higher being?

We as humans don't know as much as we think. In saying that, there are far too many wonders in life to have a close mind to the possibility. Therefore, I have faith. I do believe in science. I believe He gave us the power and knowledge to explore, and experiment. But ultimately, I believe He is first and last.

I could be wrong, and if so, then I'll die and be worm food. No big deal. But oh gosh, I'd hate to miss out if I was right. Not just because of the promised things of Heaven, but more so being near something so magnificent.


sometimes good stuff happens, sometimes bad. Similarly some people do bad things and some do good, god is not involved. but the "just in case" argument is really feeble, I mean if god does exist he'll know

(in reply to TNDommeK)
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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 4:44:44 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Science. It goes back further than Religion and is provable.

Science goes back farther than religion? On what planet? And when did Science deliver a negative finding on the existence of a greater reality?

Everything we know about Nature is in accord with the idea that the fundamental process of Nature lies outside space-time ~Henry Stapp

K.



Obviously not on your planet.

"greater reality" I hardly think so.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 5:07:09 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline 		If you believe that science will eventually prove everything about the physical universe then it's easy to eliminate God as an influence for any of it. So what does that leave you? Only those things that are capable of creating random, unpredictable events. But unpredictability denotes chaos. So is it possible that God is chaos?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 5:17:58 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

So is it possible that God is chaos?


_____________________________

I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic. - Mr. Spock



Well this is indeed mans first reason for thinking there must be some supernatural being. There was no other reason to explain the unexplained. Man wanted one, so they came up with the relatively modern notion of Religion.


(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why do you believe? - 6/13/2013 5:18:47 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

If you believe that science will eventually prove everything about the physical universe then it's easy to eliminate God as an influence for any of it. So what does that leave you? Only those things that are capable of creating random, unpredictable events. But unpredictability denotes chaos. So is it possible that God is chaos?
If a supreme being is just spiritual and thus immaterial it could be, that it can never be proven just like an afterlife. I do like the train of thought very much and it's written in few words. Especially like the conclusion, that God might be chaos. It's damn funny and pretty well reasoned out. It gives me room to expand on. Thanks.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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