When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust.....

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crouchingtigress -> When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 2:17:12 PM)
Hi folks, some of you know me, most prolly dont, i dont post much, just come and read and then if a perspective has not been offered ill tend to chime in. Today is not about that though, nor is it about poor me, or he did me wrong, or please help me fix my life, no, today i am writing because i had something sad happen and i could use a little bit of support if you wish to offer it. I met the most lovely boy, and we were moving in a direction i was seriously surprised to find myself enjoying, ...god i am still getting goose bumbs thinking about his lovely smile,... any way, he was brought up in a situation that really fucked with his head, circumstances that would make even the most hardened of hearts melt. I cant call it abuse because to me that makes him, or any one, a victim and honestly being a victim never serves, so i try not to use this word. However when you are brought up in this sort of circumstance often it is all you know, and it is in its own twisted way, it is all that is considered safe, and so you end up creating the same thing for yourself as an adult: people who use you, people who hurt you, and you leave them, but ultimately isolate yourself because you know your better then that, but you just dont know how to shift gears...how to create a better life for yourself. Enter me, I have been though a lot, rape at a young age, forced prostitution, heroin addiction, blah blah blah....and ill be honest i am doing great. I live a life i love with friends i adore, and my dream job, that leaves me lots of free time ect...so i really, honestly thought i could help.... But what i am so sad about, and why i am writing to share from my heart, is that almost immediately his trust issues came up, and it was like a brick wall....there was no getting over, digging under, coaxing him over to me, or even parachuting down.... I am ok, yes i love this boy and i am hurting, but that is the risk of love and it will most likly pass in several days leaving just the wonderful memories in its wake...but i am so sad for him. I know i cant "save" him and its silly to try ect...but i am still just sad, and angry that folks do this to their kids and fuck them up so soundly.... I know he reads some collar me things, so he may read this, if you wish to write him some encouragement to step out of the box, or if you have a sense of who i am and wish to essentially put in a good word...i would be greatful. Maybe some of you came from that place where trust was a terrifying thing, and it had to look an exact way, and maybe you some how moved through that with the help of some one else and have a story to share... Anyway here i am putting it all out there for y'all to see...thank you for taking the time to read and/or write..... ~Amy

zenofeller -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 3:19:21 PM)
obviously i will find myself stuck with the unpopular position. ah well, it happens to be mine. there is no such thing as a wall too high. this is not condemnation, it may be too high for you, or too high right now, but nothing man made can't be undone by man. and by man i mean women too. other than that, don't know much of particulars, so best of luck is about all of it.

Noah -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 3:39:14 PM)
The day may come when he is out from under those issues. You may or may not be in the picture then. Based on your brief sketch it seems reasonable to believe that you won't be but there is no need to make speculative conclusions about the future. My view is that if that day comes for him it will have come partly in virtue of having had you offer that which you did offer. You seem to have made the offer with an open heart and no strings attached. As of today there just may be no opening in his heart into which that peg can fit. If you acted honorably, remind yourself that the offer you made was a gift in itself, freely given. It can't fail to have some effect on him but what that effect will be is out of your hands. You can pray for him if you believe in prayer, or if you don't for that matter. You can be grateful for whatever it was that you two did share. It isn't that we can't ask for any more than that. But it seems that we can't insist on any more. Some of the most beautiful stories are sad ones. I think the fact that you had the opportunity to be a part of a beautiful story suggests that you are living in tune with what is. Keep on.

slavejali -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 3:39:38 PM)
I could really feel your sense of caring for this man when I read your post. I've been sitting here trying to think of something to say, something to offer. I'm finding it really hard to find any words...everything that comes to mind seems like some over-used cliche.....ugh. It makes me sad too when I see people who are so screwed up from the past that they are only living part of life, it makes me sad when they cannot see the way out of the cage they are in. As you have stated, you know you cannot save him, he has to come to the conclusion himself that he has to take the step of trust to be able to walk into a brighter future where he can live life more fully. He has to be willing to risk being hurt again for the sake of his own happiness...and even if he fails...he has to be determined to get back on his horse again and try again...over and over and over until he breaks the cycle of his own despair and fear. I feel for you and I feel for him, I dont know what else to say.

crouchingtigress -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 3:59:26 PM)
I respectfully disagree...the only way your can make a horse drink the water you have led him too is to forcefully open his mouth and squeeze it down....that is not a style of dominance i resonate with, when someone chooses to close their mouth (mind) they are withdrawing their consent in my world, ymmv. If however, i am wrong in my assessment, and you can lead a horse to water and make him drink, please tell me how to do this, because the impasse we find ourselves in is that he does trust me, as that i have not hurt him, but he can not trust that in the future i will not hurt him. He can not give me any reasons for this, and he is not able to show me examples of possible scenarios that would cause him to feel this way, add to this that he does not feel that i am "the type of person that would/could hurt him in anyway" His reasoning is this: He feels that there is a possibility that his judgment is so bad based in past results, that he is probably missing something and that it is because he can not see how i could possibly hurt him, that i could hurt him because he could never did see the other hurts coming either... He can not trust me because he does not trust himself ..and he is intelligent enough to see it, and humble enough to admit it, but is still paralyzed to do anything about it.......and that is what makes me so sad today......can you see the heart of the matter more clearly now? I hear the uplifting message in your OP, and trust me, i totally agree, there is "no such thing as a wall to high".....except, the one the person chooses not to climb.

crouchingtigress -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:05:52 PM)
I am crying as i read this.....thank you is all i can say.....thank you. [quote]ORIGINAL: Noah The day may come when he is out from under those issues. You may or may not be in the picture then. Based on your brief sketch it seems reasonable to believe that you won't be but there is no need to make speculative conclusions about the future. My view is that if that day comes for him it will have come partly in virtue of having had you offer that which you did offer. You seem to have made the offer with an open heart and no strings attached. As of today there just may be no opening in his heart into which that peg can fit. If you acted honorably, remind yourself that the offer you made was a gift in itself, freely given. It can't fail to have some effect on him but what that effect will be is out of your hands. You can pray for him if you believe in prayer, or if you don't for that matter. You can be grateful for whatever it was that you two did share. It isn't that we can't ask for any more than that. But it seems that we can't insist on any more. Some of the most beautiful stories are sad ones. I think the fact that you had the opportunity to be a part of a beautiful story suggests that you are living in tune with what is. Keep on. [/quote]

Estring -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:05:53 PM)
At least he is honest and perceptive enough to know that he is no good to anyone else at this time. Why not just be a friend for him right now? He probably needs that more than anything else.

LTRsubNW -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:07:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress I respectfully disagree...the only way your can make a horse drink the water you have led him too is to forcefully open his mouth and squeeze it down.... Well, actually, I'm afraid that's not entirely true. As my Daddy once told me... "You can lead a horse to water...but if you think you're gonna get him to mow your lawn you're as stupid as the rest of the damned family thinks you are". That's what Pop taught me anyways.

LTRsubNW -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:08:31 PM)
(Then again, Dad was the same one that taught me "A penny saved....is a cent".) (Actually, now that I think about it...Dad was a real asshole).

crouchingtigress -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:09:58 PM)
Wow, i am, as always, so moved by your compassion and insight....thank you...i dont know how you do it, i am humbled and in awe. [quote]ORIGINAL: slavejali I could really feel your sense of caring for this man when I read your post. I've been sitting here trying to think of something to say, something to offer. I'm finding it really hard to find any words...everything that comes to mind seems like some over-used cliche.....ugh. It makes me sad too when I see people who are so screwed up from the past that they are only living part of life, it makes me sad when they cannot see the way out of the cage they are in. As you have stated, you know you cannot save him, he has to come to the conclusion himself that he has to take the step of trust to be able to walk into a brighter future where he can live life more fully. He has to be willing to risk being hurt again for the sake of his own happiness...and even if he fails...he has to be determined to get back on his horse again and try again...over and over and over until he breaks the cycle of his own despair and fear. I feel for you and I feel for him, I dont know what else to say. [/quote]

crouchingtigress -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:11:49 PM)
That is a great idea, and as silly as it seems one i had not considered...thank you. [quote]ORIGINAL: Estring At least he is honest and perceptive enough to know that he is no good to anyone else at this time. Why not just be a friend for him right now? He probably needs that more than anything else. [/quote]

crouchingtigress -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:15:31 PM)
lol, so here i am just crying hysterically over the last two posts and i get yours and i am really greatful for the laugh i can tell tell ya! Thank you. quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW (Then again, Dad was the same one that taught me "A penny saved....is a cent".) (Actually, now that I think about it...Dad was a real asshole).

Misstoyou -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:18:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah The day may come when he is out from under those issues. You may or may not be in the picture then... My view is that if that day comes for him it will have come partly in virtue of having had you offer that which you did offer. Exactly. As much as it hurts, crouchingtigress, he has tried... for you! It may be too big as step, too high a wall, for now (whatever metaphor you want to use), but he risked as much as he was able for you, and that is a huge thing.

andal -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:22:47 PM)
This from someone who has trust issues, and in the past I have had that "Yes, but I know the other shoe is going to drop..." mentality. I still do, but I am learning to differentiate between unreasonable/obsessive thoughts and something based on reality. It sucks that people get messed up, whether it is parents, siblings, relatives, teachers, or just random events in life. Yes, the damage can last a long time, even being passed down for generations. Giving honestly of yourself is the best that you can do. He will deal with his issues or not, but I can honestly say that I remember most of the people who made an effort in my life with a great deal of fondness, even though most aren't a part of my life anymore. When someone believes in me enough that I get caught up in it, it affects my life in positive ways that sometimes takes literally decades to process. And it took every single one of those incidents to lead me to the point I am at now, which is a fairly good one. But the problem that he is facing is one that only he can fix. I admit, he probably does need some type of structured relationship where he is "forced" to deal with a long-term relationship and the possibility of being hurt. But hey, it's life, people get hurt all the time. He's going to have to learn that it is okay to get hurt and that it is not the end of the world. (I'm talking emotional/spiritual here, not play/physical pain.) Keep your faith in the basic goodness of the universe! Cynics may be right more often, but does that make them happier people? All in all, stay in contact with him if possible, and best of wishes for you and him as well.

crouchingtigress -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:23:45 PM)
What a beautiful perspective, i so appreciate you pointing that out....thank you quote: ORIGINAL: Misstoyou quote: ORIGINAL: Noah The day may come when he is out from under those issues. You may or may not be in the picture then... My view is that if that day comes for him it will have come partly in virtue of having had you offer that which you did offer. Exactly. As much as it hurts, crouchingtigress, he has tried... for you! It may be too big as step, too high a wall, for now (whatever metaphor you want to use), but he risked as much as he was able for you, and that is a huge thing.

cuddleheart50 -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:24:03 PM)
You are a very special woman to have touched him the way you did, and trust me, you did touch him.

sophia37 -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:25:02 PM)
You are a good friend crouchingTigress. A kind decent caring person. So I can thank you for that. And I can say, hey good friend of Crouching Tigress, take notice. One does not let good friends go. When you find them, you keep them. Good people come in handy for lifetime. Life is hard. As you well know. Good friends make it a tad easier. So hold on, be open, and for heavens sakes, grab all the goodness that comes your way. Thats what sweetens the bitter. When someone offers you their hand, take it. Just take it. Its more fun to walk this earth hand in hand than one alone.

LaTigresse -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:32:20 PM)
CT, I do not often participate in the more serious threads. My weird outlook on life can tend to come across as sarcastic,mean and unfeeling in type and its really not ever meant that way. However this subject is near and dear to my heart and I will try to put my feelings into words properly. I had an off and on relationship with a young woman that seems to be the emotional twin to your young man. I empathise with you. It is torturous to watch them self destruct and very painful to love someone that just cannot allow themself to trust and be loved.She and I will always remain friends and I will always care for her, even love her but from a distance and with a barrier of self preservation. She knows I will always be there for her to talk to. I think that is probably all you can offer this young man right now is support and friendship. That itself is more than many. I wish you all the best, just please do not allow his pain and need to take too much from you. It is easy to give too much of yourself in this situation.

crouchingtigress -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:33:28 PM)
Thank you for your wisdom and hard-earned insight. It means a lot to hear that the seeds that were sewned all those years ago did, in time, find fertile soil, and did in fact take root and thrive...i am trully happy that you have overcome your trust issues to the extent that you have, and wish you all the love and compassion you have shown me in getting through the rest of them....thank you andal. quote: ORIGINAL: andal This from someone who has trust issues, and in the past I have had that "Yes, but I know the other shoe is going to drop..." mentality. I still do, but I am learning to differentiate between unreasonable/obsessive thoughts and something based on reality. It sucks that people get messed up, whether it is parents, siblings, relatives, teachers, or just random events in life. Yes, the damage can last a long time, even being passed down for generations. Giving honestly of yourself is the best that you can do. He will deal with his issues or not, but I can honestly say that I remember most of the people who made an effort in my life with a great deal of fondness, even though most aren't a part of my life anymore. When someone believes in me enough that I get caught up in it, it affects my life in positive ways that sometimes takes literally decades to process. And it took every single one of those incidents to lead me to the point I am at now, which is a fairly good one. But the problem that he is facing is one that only he can fix. I admit, he probably does need some type of structured relationship where he is "forced" to deal with a long-term relationship and the possibility of being hurt. But hey, it's life, people get hurt all the time. He's going to have to learn that it is okay to get hurt and that it is not the end of the world. (I'm talking emotional/spiritual here, not play/physical pain.) Keep your faith in the basic goodness of the universe! Cynics may be right more often, but does that make them happier people? All in all, stay in contact with him if possible, and best of wishes for you and him as well.

zenofeller -> RE: When You Hit a Brick Wall of Trust..... (6/26/2006 4:34:18 PM)
well, let's try to do a bit of living in the guy's shoes. (entirely fictious examples) he was in a spot more than once in his life. (needed a fix) he did what seemed to him reasonable (stole some stuff to buy fix). he got caught and ended up in prison. going by what seemed reasonable to him at the time, he ended up in trouble. going through this cycle a few times, the idea begins to form, that he might end up in trouble doing things that seem perfectly reasonable. while this is a risk for absolutely everyone, he perceives it vastly overblown. and to this, add the part where he feels safer with things he understands to be wrong, because unlike thinks that appear to be right, he at least won't be both hurt and confused. he'd be just hurt. but hurt is his lot no matter what. at least this way he doesn't have to face confusion too. it's perfectly reasonable, and understandable. people may find themselves in that predicament. they don't have to be necessarily stupid or bad for it. now, that said, can you understand where he's coming from ? try the mental exercise, put yourself in his shoes, play some scenarios in your head. can you feel it ? i imagine the best cure is responsibility. can he mentor some kids ? work as a volunteer somewhere ? suicide line, women's shelter, animal shelter, anything ? can he go to the country and help on a farm ? anything that would put him in a position to do things and feel their results, again and again and again, over the course of one day. he can learn to trust himself again that way, just like someone who has injured his spine can learn to walk again. they just need to feel the ground. again and again. feel it tho. not hit it.

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