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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/17/2013 7:56:27 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Many here seem to feel it is okay.

Where is here? The USA?

So far no-one in this thread agrees with the 'many here', I notice.

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Post #: 21

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/17/2013 8:02:25 PM

vincentML

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quote:

I think she should at least have remained in prison until she was at least 50.
Many here seem to feel it is okay.
Can you imagine stabbing someone almost 80 years old, 33 times?
You and I Butch probably belong in another world.
Peace

I don't understand why you make such a distinction between agers 43 and 50, Marini. If she is a rehabilitated person and deemed trustworthy to return to the 'world' wouldn't it be reasonable to have her return at the younger age when she stands a better chance of establishing herself in a productive position? I would think so.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 22

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/17/2013 8:08:12 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I'm surprised you missed this story Rich.
It was front and center news for years in the late 80's.

Yep. I spent the late 80's far from home, and at the time of the trial, I was much preoccupied with not pissing off that guy in the silly hat, who would damn near give himself a stroke over a speck of dust in my wall locker. From the wikipedia details, her sentence would have been commuted, and the case receding from view, by the time I got home. I missed a lot of stuff in those years.

It takes a lot of rage to stab someone 33 times, so I hope she has found peace somewhere in herself, because she surely must have been a monstrous little bitch back then.

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Post #: 23

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/17/2013 8:12:48 PM

Marini

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quote:

I don't understand why you make such a distinction between agers 43 and 50, Marini. If she is a rehabilitated person and deemed trustworthy to return to the 'world' wouldn't it be reasonable to have her return at the younger age when she stands a better chance of establishing herself in a productive position? I would think so.

I am saying 50 at the very least, I have no problem with Paula Cooper being behind bars even longer than that.
Who says she is rehabilitated?

As I stated before, we discuss serious crimes committed by young offenders all the time.
I enjoy listening to people's opinions.
At least you are consistent, Vince.

< Message edited by Marini -- 6/17/2013 8:15:05 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/18/2013 9:54:47 AM

calamitysandra

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As you have asked about the sentence she would have recieved in other countries:

As she was below 18 at the time of the murder, she would have received a maximum sentence of 10 years in Germany. Had she been between 18 and 21 the max. sentence would have been 15 years.
Children below the age of 14 are deemed to be what is called "Strafunmündig", in which case there would have been no prosecution.

< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 6/18/2013 9:56:02 AM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/18/2013 10:24:18 AM

SilverMark

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I still lived in Indiana when the crime took place, it was horrendous, but she was all of 15 when the crime took place. There is a lot of really bad back story to her young life at 15, abject poverty, abuse, once referred to as a social misfit, just a ton of issues.

By commuting her sentence from life to 60 years she , like any other prisoner was entitled to release based on her behavior etc. I think I've changed since I was 15, I'd think she probably has as well, and although it won't bring her victim back, after damn near 30 years in a women's prison, she's earned her release.

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Post #: 26

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/18/2013 2:05:28 PM

Marini

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Thanks everyone for their replies.

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As always, To EACH their Own.
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Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Post #: 27

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/18/2013 2:19:29 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I still lived in Indiana when the crime took place, it was horrendous, but she was all of 15 when the crime took place. There is a lot of really bad back story to her young life at 15, abject poverty, abuse, once referred to as a social misfit, just a ton of issues.

By commuting her sentence from life to 60 years she , like any other prisoner was entitled to release based on her behavior etc. I think I've changed since I was 15, I'd think she probably has as well, and although it won't bring her victim back, after damn near 30 years in a women's prison, she's earned her release.

I agree she must have changed, but for the better?

(in reply to SilverMark)

Post #: 28

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/18/2013 8:21:30 PM

Curmudgeonly1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn...this animal stabs a helpless 78 year old woman not just once or twice but 33 times.. she should at the least be kept away from civilized humans for life.

Butch

To what purpose?

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Post #: 29

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 8:58:00 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curmudgeonly1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn...this animal stabs a helpless 78 year old woman not just once or twice but 33 times.. she should at the least be kept away from civilized humans for life.

Butch

To what purpose?

I would think it obvious.... So she does not do it again... Like a significant number of murders that are paroled do.

Tell me truthfully... could you ever envision yourself, under any circumstance, stabbing another human being 33 times? Do you not think this person is mentally flawed? I do and I do NOT think time will guarantee this person will not do it again. There may come a time when rehabilitation will become reliable to the point where we can release murderers back into society...but that time is not here yet. Otherwise would you feel comfortable with this person moving next door to you and your love ones?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/19/2013 9:04:20 AM >

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Post #: 30

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 9:41:58 AM

Marini

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quote:

Otherwise would you feel comfortable with this person moving next door to you and your love ones?

Or would you hire Paula to babysit your kids, in fact would you hire Paula for any job?

We need to start a thread on whether going to prison, "changes" people.
We know it probably changes some people, but I doubt it changes all people.

How do we really know if a person has changed for the better, by spending time in prison?

IF the goal is to seriously help people in prison to "change", are there enough programs and services in place to help more people "change" and
become "rehabilitated"?

< Message edited by Marini -- 6/19/2013 9:49:13 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 31

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 10:28:48 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
IF the goal is to seriously help people in prison to "change"

The goal ought to be to reduce their reproductive success so that future generations of the population have a reduced frequency of the criminal alleles.

To be effective, all other people ought to have as many progeny as possible. (Which clashes with the overpopulation that we would like to have decreased.)

_____________________________

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"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 32

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 3:43:01 PM

Curmudgeonly1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curmudgeonly1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn...this animal stabs a helpless 78 year old woman not just once or twice but 33 times.. she should at the least be kept away from civilized humans for life.

Butch

To what purpose?

I would think it obvious.... So she does not do it again... Like a significant number of murders that are paroled do.

Tell me truthfully... could you ever envision yourself, under any circumstance, stabbing another human being 33 times? Do you not think this person is mentally flawed? I do and I do NOT think time will guarantee this person will not do it again. There may come a time when rehabilitation will become reliable to the point where we can release murderers back into society...but that time is not here yet. Otherwise would you feel comfortable with this person moving next door to you and your love ones?

Butch

Your assumption may not be so obvious. What is your evidence that a mature woman will repeat the actions of a child if released from prison?

_____________________________

"The more defects a man may have, the older he is, the less lovable, the more resounding his success." Donatien Alphonse François

Dummheit straft sich selbst.

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Post #: 33

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 5:46:55 PM

kdsub

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Criminal statistics have shown that a small but significant number of murderers that have served their time or been paroled commit murder again. But you have things backwards anyway... What evidence do YOU have that she has been rehabilitated?

What assurances can you personally give that this person will not kill again? Some people who commit heinous crimes should forfeit their right to live among innocents .

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/19/2013 5:47:23 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 34

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 6:08:51 PM

Curmudgeonly1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Criminal statistics have shown that a small but significant number of murderers that have served their time or been paroled commit murder again. But you have things backwards anyway... What evidence do YOU have that she has been rehabilitated?

What assurances can you personally give that this person will not kill again? Some people who commit heinous crimes should forfeit their right to live among innocents .

Butch

http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

_____________________________

"The more defects a man may have, the older he is, the less lovable, the more resounding his success." Donatien Alphonse François

Dummheit straft sich selbst.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 35

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 9:30:02 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Criminal statistics have shown that a small but significant number of murderers that have served their time or been paroled commit murder again. But you have things backwards anyway... What evidence do YOU have that she has been rehabilitated?

What assurances can you personally give that this person will not kill again? Some people who commit heinous crimes should forfeit their right to live among innocents .

Butch

Not quite, Butch.

Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).

Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=17

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 9:38:53 PM

Lucylastic

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oops my bad

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 6/19/2013 9:49:06 PM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 9:47:45 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Otherwise would you feel comfortable with this person moving next door to you and your love ones?

Or would you hire Paula to babysit your kids, in fact would you hire Paula for any job?

We need to start a thread on whether going to prison, "changes" people.
We know it probably changes some people, but I doubt it changes all people.

How do we really know if a person has changed for the better, by spending time in prison?

IF the goal is to seriously help people in prison to "change", are there enough programs and services in place to help more people "change" and
become "rehabilitated"?

I agree with SilverMark, she has done her time and earned her release.. as far as rehabilitation.. she earned a degree and is getting paroled for good behaviour, that shows a level of rehabilitation.. and she is much older now and people do change as they get older and are very different from the way they were as teenagers..

as far as giving her a job.. I read about George Zimmer who started The Men's Warehouse, apparently he never required criminal background checks on any potential employees, he believed that everyone deserved a second chance.. I tend to agree with that.. if a person is given a decent job then they are more likely to do their best and not relapse.. and they are likely much more hard working and loyal to those that do give them that second chance.. jmo..

eta- as far as her moving near you, look at the sex offenders list and see just how many are living around you right now.. I would be more afraid of a sex offender than I would be of her..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 6/19/2013 9:53:43 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/19/2013 10:14:56 PM

Marini

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quote:

eta- as far as her moving near you, look at the sex offenders list and see just how many are living around you right now.. I would be more afraid of a sex offender than I would be of her..

Checking the sex offender's list is a great idea.
We really often never know, the background of those living close to us.

One of the reasons I started this thread, is because we have had many discussions regarding juveniles, serious crimes and sentencing lately.

I always find it interesting when we discuss, serious crimes and sentencing.
If Paula had been 3-5 years older, it would be a different ball game.

With all the serious crimes committed by juveniles these days, eventually we will probably have thousands released in their 30s/40s/50s that committed serious/heinous crimes.

I hope they all are rehabilitated, get jobs, and become great citizens.

We are all entitled to have our opinions.
That's what makes the world go round.
Thanks

< Message edited by Marini -- 6/19/2013 11:00:21 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 39

RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 5:13:12 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

eta- as far as her moving near you, look at the sex offenders list and see just how many are living around you right now.. I would be more afraid of a sex offender than I would be of her..

Checking the sex offender's list is a great idea.
We really often never know, the background of those living close to us.

One of the reasons I started this thread, is because we have had many discussions regarding juveniles, serious crimes and sentencing lately.

I always find it interesting when we discuss, serious crimes and sentencing.
If Paula had been 3-5 years older, it would be a different ball game.

With all the serious crimes committed by juveniles these days, eventually we will probably have thousands released in their 30s/40s/50s that committed serious/heinous crimes.

I hope they all are rehabilitated, get jobs, and become great citizens.

We are all entitled to have our opinions.
That's what makes the world go round.
Thanks

well,.. if she had been 3-5 years older perhaps she would have not even committed the crime.. kids that age are very susceptible to doing what their friends want them to do.. she may have been told or egged on to stab the woman by one or more of the other 3 kids with her...

now that said, that whole Manson string of 20+? murders is a different story, hope they never get out..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Post #: 40

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