RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison?

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 5:23:52 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

Otherwise would you feel comfortable with this person moving next door to you and your love ones?

Or would you hire Paula to babysit your kids, in fact would you hire Paula for any job?

We need to start a thread on whether going to prison, "changes" people.
We know it probably changes some people, but I doubt it changes all people.

How do we really know if a person has changed for the better, by spending time in prison?

IF the goal is to seriously help people in prison to "change", are there enough programs and services in place to help more people "change" and
become "rehabilitated"?

I agree with SilverMark, she has done her time and earned her release.. as far as rehabilitation.. she earned a degree and is getting paroled for good behaviour, that shows a level of rehabilitation.. and she is much older now and people do change as they get older and are very different from the way they were as teenagers..

as far as giving her a job.. I read about George Zimmer who started The Men's Warehouse, apparently he never required criminal background checks on any potential employees, he believed that everyone deserved a second chance.. I tend to agree with that.. if a person is given a decent job then they are more likely to do their best and not relapse.. and they are likely much more hard working and loyal to those that do give them that second chance.. jmo..

eta- as far as her moving near you, look at the sex offenders list and see just how many are living around you right now.. I would be more afraid of a sex offender than I would be of her..

Well she served part of her sentence anyway. I am not sure how she "earned" her release unless you mean she hasn't killed anyone since she was locked up. Earning a degree is certainly a good indicator but could only mean that she was bored and took up schooling as a way to pass time. I would have to know a lot more about how she is behaving now before I could say one way or another. I also would be leery about her living anywhere near me as apposed to a sex offender. I guess it would depend on why they were put on the list in the first place.

The paragraph about George Zimmer was timed well. I guess it's too bad for him that they are not giving him a second chance after all the ones he has given out.

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 5:26:07 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

eta- as far as her moving near you, look at the sex offenders list and see just how many are living around you right now.. I would be more afraid of a sex offender than I would be of her..

Checking the sex offender's list is a great idea.
We really often never know, the background of those living close to us.

One of the reasons I started this thread, is because we have had many discussions regarding juveniles, serious crimes and sentencing lately.

I always find it interesting when we discuss, serious crimes and sentencing.
If Paula had been 3-5 years older, it would be a different ball game.

With all the serious crimes committed by juveniles these days, eventually we will probably have thousands released in their 30s/40s/50s that committed serious/heinous crimes.

I hope they all are rehabilitated, get jobs, and become great citizens.

We are all entitled to have our opinions.
That's what makes the world go round.
Thanks

well,.. if she had been 3-5 years older perhaps she would have not even committed the crime.. kids that age are very susceptible to doing what their friends want them to do.. she may have been told or egged on to stab the woman by one or more of the other 3 kids with her...

now that said, that whole Manson string of 20+? murders is a different story, hope they never get out..

What makes the girls who followed Manson any different? If they had been 3-5 years older there is a chance that they would not have followed him and killed for him, so why does this one get a pass and not the others?

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 5:38:52 AM

tazzygirl

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 6:05:53 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Well she served part of her sentence anyway. I am not sure how she "earned" her release unless you mean she hasn't killed anyone since she was locked up. Earning a degree is certainly a good indicator but could only mean that she was bored and took up schooling as a way to pass time. I would have to know a lot more about how she is behaving now before I could say one way or another. I also would be leery about her living anywhere near me as apposed to a sex offender. I guess it would depend on why they were put on the list in the first place.

The paragraph about George Zimmer was timed well. I guess it's too bad for him that they are not giving him a second chance after all the ones he has given out.

I expect the parole board has more info on what she has done, if she has tried helping other inmates turn their life around, etc.. i agree i would like to know more also, but the parole board are the ones that have looked at her time behind bars and have come to this determination.. hopefully she will prove them right...

I have looked at some of the info on the sex offenders list.. some have kidnapping and rape convictions from 1980 or 90 and nothing since.. hard to know if they are rehabilitated or just doing the same things but more savvy about getting away with it.. I am not sure how I feel about them, cuz I am female and feel vulnerable (not as strong as a man, etc)..

Yeah, that sucks for George Zimmer, I am surprised he has only 3% ownership.. I wonder what he will do now, if he will start a new company or if he will retire/do something else.. he seems to have interesting and non-typical views..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 6/20/2013 6:06:24 AM >

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 6:11:08 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

What makes the girls who followed Manson any different? If they had been 3-5 years older there is a chance that they would not have followed him and killed for him, so why does this one get a pass and not the others?

a few reasons- they were not children, they were much older than a 15 year old. They committed 20 or more murders, it was not a one time impulse situation (maybe the murdered 78yo woman surprised them when they were robbing the place, etc). These Manson murders were pre-planned..

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 8:19:50 AM

Marini

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quote:

a few reasons- they were not children, they were much older than a 15 year old. They committed 20 or more murders, it was not a one time impulse situation (maybe the murdered 78yo woman surprised them when they were robbing the place, etc). These Manson murders were pre-planned..

These girls were not "surprised", these girls plotted and planned to harm this woman in advance.

Feel free to read the link I provided, there are thousands of links on the internet regarding this case.
This was a huge news story 27 years ago, and received a lot of coverage.

Paula Cooper released at 43

Copied from the CBS link above:
"Cooper was 15 when she and three other teenage girls showed up at Ruth Pelke's house on May 14, 1985, with plans of robbing the 78-year-old Bible school teacher. Pelke let Cooper and two of the teen's companions into her Gary home after they told her they were interested in Bible lessons.

As the fourth teen waited outside as a lookout, Cooper stabbed Pelke 33 times with a butcher knife. Then she and the other girls ransacked the house. The four girls fled with Pelke's car and $10.

Cooper's three accomplices were sentenced to prison terms ranging from 25 to 60 years. But Cooper, who confessed to Pelke's slaying, was convicted of murder and sentenced to die in the electric chair. At the time - in 1986 - she was the youngest death row inmate in the U.S."

I can respect your opinion, and I hope Paula has really changed, but please don't attempt to change or marginalize what a heinous crime this was.

< Message edited by Marini -- 6/20/2013 9:09:20 AM >

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 8:27:39 AM

kdsub

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Not quite, Butch.

Tazzy what is not "quite" about a small but significant number? Your statistic is for 3 years... Do you realize how many new murders that represents! And that is only in three years... what about the rest of their lives?

Considering the thousands of murderers paroled or released from completed sentences how many murders do you think that 1.2 percent means? Now if one of those were your loved one I think the statistic would be significant to you.

I think the 1.2 in a hundred, considering how many hundreds there are, in three years are lousy odds to put someone with this potential back on the streets...what about you? Especially considering how heinous this particular crime was.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/20/2013 8:37:25 AM >

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 8:40:41 AM

SilverMark

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Tough to find much on the recidivism rates of those who are convicted of First Degree Murder. Length of sentences, the death penalty, life without the possibility of parole I am sure keeps the rate low.

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 8:44:48 AM

kdsub

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Not really just spend a little time doing searches...It is surprising the number that have been released over the last 10 years.

Butch

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/20/2013 5:58:44 PM

tj444

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I was not trying to marginalize what she did as a 15 year old, but its still not comparable to 20 preplanned murders by grown adults.. Yes, what she did was horrible and I hope she has changed, for society's sake.. she can not change what she has done, even tho she has done her time, she will never be able to wash away the blood from her hands.. she has to live with that..

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RE: Should Paula Cooper have been released from prison? - 6/28/2013 9:54:31 AM

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