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And yet again... - 6/18/2013 2:23:44 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

So there have been allot of thread about this, but since it is still popping up in posts and threads I thought another conversation on the topic might be a good idea.

Now every so often we see Doms come into this site and say that everyone is fake since the subs do not give them enough respect or are shocked that they are not treated like kings by anyone who identify as submissive. Now for those folks let me try to explain a few things. Within most of BDSM Dominance and submission is a private thing between the partners in a given relationship. That means that slave Sophie is a slave just to her Master, to everyone else she is just Sophie, she is like any woman you would meet on the street and owe no one any more respect or obedience if they identify as Dominant or not. Now there are groups, for example Goreans where slavery is considered a status within the lifestyle as as such every slave owe respect and obedience to every free, but generally this is not how most people outside of such lifestyles think about it.

Now some Masters and Doms might demand that their sub or slave act subservient to everyone and especially folk in the kink community who identify as Dominant and that is fine. Now I know some get very weirded out when someone they do not know call them Sir or Ma'am in the kink community, and I do not get that. Sir or Ma'am is just general terms of respect used in most of society. I can see that Master is a problem since that is more like walking up to someone you do not know and call them buttercup, but Sir and Ma'am are rather generic. However unless the given relationship of someone demand for such respect to be given, a Dominant can not demand it just because he or she identify that way.

Being submissive do not mean that one is submissive to everyone, or that one have to obey everyone with a capped nick, and the same way, being submissive do not mean you have the right to go around and call everyone Master and Mistress since that are terms most feel have to be earned or at least are private terms in their relationship. Basically unless something else is noted, I guess is my point, anyone you meet in the kink community should be treated like everyone else. Now off course Goreans and other lifestyles where slaves are expected to behave a certain way is something different, but generally, just treat Sophie the slave like any other woman unless she belong to you or there is something else that give you some authority over her. just identifying as Dominant do not make you king and give you the right to rule over those who identify as submissive.

I wish you all well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 2:35:07 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		Good points exactly. I dont have a problem with any of what you say what I do have a problem with on this site and many others as well as they seem to be feeds to pay sites that folks want you to join. I for one dont buy my relationships I form them over time getting to know someone and find out what common interestes we both enjoy. Respect is not something you buy like toilet paper it is some that is built on mutual respect. Why are so many that I have encountered in my short time on this site trying to get you to join some BDSM pay site? Well to be honest there are many in the BDSM community that capitalize on the fact that this is a taboo area of indulgance, that fetishes are kept somewhat closeted by many in the society and so the profiteers use this knowledge to exploit those that are already on the edges of the social norms. This is the worst form of exploitation and those that subscribe to it should be exposed for what they are slugs in this society.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 2:38:11 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

I am sure that advertisement and nagging to join pay sites is a big problem however what my post was really about are Doms who nag and whine over random submissives not calling them Sir and not acting subservient to them even if they have no relationships with these people, I do not really see the connection to pay site advertisement here.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to sissibaby)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 2:50:44 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		well it is tied in and let me show you how. The notion about what is and is not proper protocol regarding the addressing of Doms or Sub or Doms by Subs or Subs to Subs is establishing some kind of standard and yes you were correct in the standard you submitted here in your opening remarks but my point is that many here are here more for the profiteering than for the "lifestyle" and so they are using this site as a feed to pay sites and to obtaining fees for doing so which is a kind of commission. If you are here for that purpose than you establish some kind of irrelevant rules for the lifestyle such as one has to be addressed in some particular way or they are not following some "unwritten" law of the manner to address subs or doms. The reality is a lifestyle is not something that is a commodity or has some pre ordained rules for behavior such as the manner of addressing one another. It is just what its discripter implies a lifestyle. Set rules for the interaction between two people is established between those two (or it could of course be more) intimate individuals. General societal rules are just that we respond to hello how are you in turn and we politely adress folks we dont know in a proper fashion. When we see interactions as ways of obtaining money we have moved from social interaction to business deals and with business deals we may or may not follow the same social rules except those that prevent certain illegal action (insider trading). When the interaction as its fundamental basis is one that is working towards a monetary desire rather than building a relationship it may well be that we pre establish some kind of rules that require and may even be at odds with normal societal one such as responding to hello how are you.
So as I hope you see my point in response to your smartly worded statements are relevant and I hope my response here has cleared up why I made mention the way I had.

< Message edited by sissibaby -- 6/18/2013 2:52:02 AM >

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 3:02:09 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		What I see too often is the ones that broadly spam their "interest" to the point of a red "this is spam" banner being seen by every reader then getting butt hurt & by name trying to "out fakes" because they didn't respond.
While I'm sure "uber-dom" is eager to spread his seed, being female doesn't mean I will ever be interested in them. Porn promotes the idea that kinky women are an easy lay. 50 shades doesn't exactly help matters. I guess my big question mark is when did finding a kink partner become fuck & run instead of real dating? I've had many potentials over the years act disappointed because I looked like everyone else in the coffee house & wanted to know who they were as a person.
Why is it female dominants aren't allowed to like someone the flog or find their potential sub "fuckable" before wanting to move forward? To that flip side why is it "uber dom" is always so concerned about how fast he can get kinky anal sex with "any sub'll do"?

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 3:15:06 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I don't think it is a 50 shades attributable thing, or even just a kink thing. Today, so many people think that starting with sex and then seeing you can build a relationship from that is the way to go. It rarely leads to a long term relationship, yet it happens just as frequently with vanilla dating as well.

Men have been trying to find an easy way into a woman's pants for longer than the internet and longer than books like 50 Shades of Grey. It doesn't seem to matter whether they are top or bottom players, for so many, the "game" is the same; find a woman to meet his kink fantasies. Since more women are looking for relationships than the "fuck and run," it does wind up being more of a male issue.

I was recently talking with a guy. His initial email to me was well written, grammatically correct, no spelling errors, and gave every indication he actually read my profile. We began emailing back and forth and it seemed that perhaps this guy was worth meeting. I explained that until I get to know someone and have an actual interest, there is no D/s play. He responded, "that's fine, but could you just..." using the excuse of it being more difficult for him to take on a submissive role when meeting as equals. I explained that I expected him to behave like a gentleman and that while I would not actively engage in and D/s, I had no doubt that my personality would be more than sufficient. Again, his response is, "that's fine, but even just..." Finally, I explained to him that there was no way that was going to happen, and his pushing the issue was really making me have second thoughts. His response? You guessed it. "You are just a fat lazy bitch who wants someone to clean your house." Yes, I expect housekeeping as part of the deal, but I was very clear that until I got to know someone and wanted to have a relationship with them (or start working in that direction), there would be no service, no D/s, nothing. Obviously, for all his talk, he really just wanted to get his kink on.

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 3:21:46 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
I was recently talking with a guy. His initial email to me was well written, grammatically correct, no spelling errors, and gave every indication he actually read my profile. We began emailing back and forth and it seemed that perhaps this guy was worth meeting. I explained that until I get to know someone and have an actual interest, there is no D/s play. He responded, "that's fine, but could you just..." using the excuse of it being more difficult for him to take on a submissive role when meeting as equals. I explained that I expected him to behave like a gentleman and that while I would not actively engage in and D/s, I had no doubt that my personality would be more than sufficient. Again, his response is, "that's fine, but even just..." Finally, I explained to him that there was no way that was going to happen, and his pushing the issue was really making me have second thoughts. His response? You guessed it. "You are just a fat lazy bitch who wants someone to clean your house." Yes, I expect housekeeping as part of the deal, but I was very clear that until I got to know someone and wanted to have a relationship with them (or start working in that direction), there would be no service, no D/s, nothing. Obviously, for all his talk, he really just wanted to get his kink on.

I see you met my ex & why he's an ex

< Message edited by theRose4U -- 6/18/2013 3:22:19 AM >

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 3:27:38 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		nephandi, you mean well, but the offenders won't see this because they hit the forums on their way out, not before they flame out on the other side.

Here's the logical progression:

1. Offender gets charged up with kinky porn.
2. Offender gets the idea from said porn that all kink women are easy lays.
3. Offender joins site and is happily amazed at how any women there are. He contemplates a kinky orgy.
4. Since all the women here are wanton sluts, he doesn't bother wasting time reading profiles. He KNOWS what the bitchez want. Going by pictures alone, he sends out dozens of identical messages, inviting women to have sex with him.
5. Offender is amazed that none of his messages produces a positive result. Confronted with this site not conforming to porn, he concludes that porn is correct and the women on this site are defective somehow. Fakes.
6. Offender then posts an offended rant on the forums about all the fakes that won't jump into his bed.
7. Offender is further amazed at the lack of sympathy he receives, and leaves the site.

Your issue is that you're addressing wankers at stage 6, hoping to prevent him from step 4. Chronologically unworkable.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 3:58:31 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I think there are a couple of things at play here.

First, BDSM and D/s have become much more mainstream, and many people learn the 'rules' via the internet. Now if that's not a recipe for disinformation, I don't know what it.

Second, many people forgot or have never learned how to date. They 'hook up' via the internet, and don't have a clue how to court and spark in the real world.

Third, a huge proportion of these people have never had a successful relationship. Never. Ever. They weren't successful in the vanilla world, and they won't be successful here. They have zero relationship skills, yet somehow they got the idea that a BDSM or D/s relationship was so frigging special they wouldn't need them. We've all seen the results.

As with so many things online, if you don't like it, ignore it. Block and delete are your friends.



_____________________________



(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 5:41:20 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Is there a question in the OP's massive?


and I can't say that I have ever been forced or even coerced towards pay sites. I don't know where the second poster has been looking.

< Message edited by kiwisub12 -- 6/18/2013 5:42:09 AM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 6:14:21 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
I can't say that I have ever been forced or even coerced towards pay sites. I don't know where the second poster has been looking.


He's a male sub with an odd pic and a profile that specifies an odd fetish. He's the perfect target for the pay-site shills.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 6:23:09 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		Dark Steven, I think first off that you indicate I am some kind of target when you know nothing of me is a bit of a jump in logic on your part. I have been on the net and to many sites like this one as well as some pay sites and even the early free chat of Yahoo not to mention BBS which may have been before your time. The bottom line of my remark was that just as the discussion was about what is and is not the proper way for folks to interact by means of the way they address SUBS and DOMS so too is the use of these sites as a way to troll for customers to go to pay sites not exactly proper. They really are one in the same kind of misuse, be it trying to commercialize the exploitation of particular sexual interests or misusing the roles one adopts in BDSM lifestyle. Sorry that some have not seen the connection but to single out my sub persona or my fetish interests as that which makes me a target is a major mistake on your part about what and how to judge people and while I am at it who gave you the authority to judge me in the first place? Dom sub is irrelevent to the fact that with zero experience with me you jump to the conclusion I am some sort of target. Big mistake, as you have made yourself the target in your judgemental behavior.

< Message edited by sissibaby -- 6/18/2013 6:26:34 AM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 6:38:23 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Apparently DarkSteven is right - you must be a target - because I haven't been targeted. And I don't see any judgemental bahaviour in DS's post. All he said was that you had an odd fetish - and you do. That's not judgemental, its just a fact.

(in reply to sissibaby)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 6:46:02 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissibaby

Dark Steven, I think first off that you indicate I am some kind of target when you know nothing of me is a bit of a jump in logic on your part. I have been on the net and to many sites like this one as well as some pay sites and even the early free chat of Yahoo not to mention BBS which may have been before your time. The bottom line of my remark was that just as the discussion was about what is and is not the proper way for folks to interact by means of the way they address SUBS and DOMS so too is the use of these sites as a way to troll for customers to go to pay sites not exactly proper. They really are one in the same kind of misuse, be it trying to commercialize the exploitation of particular sexual interests or misusing the roles one adopts in BDSM lifestyle. Sorry that some have not seen the connection but to single out my sub persona or my fetish interests as that which makes me a target is a major mistake on your part about what and how to judge people and while I am at it who gave you the authority to judge me in the first place? Dom sub is irrelevent to the fact that with zero experience with me you jump to the conclusion I am some sort of target. Big mistake, as you have made yourself the target in your judgemental behavior.


Wow, settle down Sissibaby. No one is being judgmental. A poster wondered why you referenced experience with being directed towards pay sites, and another poster gave reasons why that was probably the case. And he was right, men as a group are targets for pay site shills, as are people with rarer fetishes, as are male submissives. Those are facts, not theories or judgment. Like it or not, experience has shown that you certainly are a target for scammers - got nothing to do with you personally, not sure why you took it that way.

(in reply to sissibaby)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 6:46:21 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		Kiwisub12 judgmental is saying that I must be a target and that I have an odd fetish. Who is setting the standards for what is and is not odd. For people who are in a community that are all trying to be accepted its strange for me to hear TARGET or ODD being used to discribe my interests as if anyone elses were not odd and that they too in their everyday lives are not targets of scorn from society. People in glass houses certainly should take a long hard look at what they are about to throw!

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 6:58:58 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		One person gets shot and another doesn't - which one is the target?

and even for cm, adult baby is an odd fetish. That sin't a judgemental statement - its just a statement based on the numbers of people on this site that are into that particular fetish.

(in reply to sissibaby)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 7:02:50 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		just curious how many are there with my particular fetish since you seem to have a grasp of the numbers? I suspect that there may be a bit more than you think and have we all become authorities now on what is and isnt normal in the BDSM community? Seems to me this is just another example of folks forcing a new "norm" on everyone else.

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 7:06:53 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		With all due respect- you seem to be overthinking the whole thing. If you object to the word "odd", then what word would you use? Different? Alternate?
Its hard to be pc on a kink site.


(in reply to sissibaby)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 7:16:50 AM   
sissibaby


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		kiwisub12 what i would have done and apparently others have not bothered to do, is read the totality of my posts here before I was subjected to being called a target or my fetishes odd. Perhaps if someone had taken the time to read the posts I made rather than singling me out as some kind of target who has odd fetishes they would have responded to my thoughts presented rather than trying to reduce their response to my thoughts presented with implications that labeled me. What I find very difficult to comprehend is that some in forum posting dont bother to read the whole discussion, then jump in with short curt remarks as if they have some special insight ignoring the meaning of the discussion and reducing it rather than enhancing it. I hope you see what I mean here as it is not meant as a responsive attack as is implied in izi remarks back to me, "WOW settle down..." . I thought I was bringing some other insight to the discussion of the actions that not addressing individuals as Master was raising by pointing out that in part it has to do with some perceiving this site as a place to troll for customers for a commission at pay sites. Apparently this point has been lost by singling me and my fetishes out as being the root cause of the commercialization of BDSM behaviors rather than focusing on the implications of those who have come here with some kind of stict notion of what is extreme behavior in a world of extreme behaviors.

< Message edited by sissibaby -- 6/18/2013 7:19:30 AM >

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: And yet again... - 6/18/2013 8:10:25 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissibaby

just curious how many are there with my particular fetish since you seem to have a grasp of the numbers? I suspect that there may be a bit more than you think and have we all become authorities now on what is and isnt normal in the BDSM community? Seems to me this is just another example of folks forcing a new "norm" on everyone else.



Start a poll down in Polls and Other Random Snippets if you'd like more on numbers of people into your fetish since it doesn't look as though you'll get an answer to that in this thread.

(in reply to sissibaby)
Profile   Post #: 20
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