Magickal and Spiritual BDSM

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nephandi -> Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 4:32:30 AM)
Greetings So this is a topic that I am very interested in but who might sound a bit crazy to many and that is spiritual and magickal BDSM, as in using kink for spiritual purposes or for magickal ritual. Now spiritual BDSM can be for example a couple where they see service to the Master is service to God, or a Pagan couple where the Dom use the sub as a magickal tool. I was just wondering if there is anyone else here who have a spiritual orientation to their kink or who use BDSM for occult practices and if so if you would like to have a nice discussion and debate about the topic? I have made a YouTube video about the topic as well if anyone is interested, just a 101 about my views on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1OEzcU5CZw Anyway for me I am very interested in both using pain to attain Gnosis and to be used as a tool for magick for another practitioner. I am also very spiritual and everything I do get colored by my religious views so naturally kink get spiritual to for me. I do think that for me being submissive is part of my inner self, perhaps part of my soul and so that one way that I can develop spiritually are through such activities and as such scenes become religious rituals for me. I wish you all well

Charles6682 -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 6:35:16 AM)
Hmm, interesting topic. I've had many friends who are Pagans/Wiccans. I even went to a Pagan Festival before. Very friendly people. I wonder if people in in this Lifestyle practice Magick with their rituals.

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 7:38:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nephandi Greetings So this is a topic that I am very interested in but who might sound a bit crazy to many and that is spiritual and magickal BDSM, as in using kink for spiritual purposes or for magickal ritual. Now spiritual BDSM can be for example a couple where they see service to the Master is service to God, or a Pagan couple where the Dom use the sub as a magickal tool. I was just wondering if there is anyone else here who have a spiritual orientation to their kink or who use BDSM for occult practices and if so if you would like to have a nice discussion and debate about the topic? I have made a YouTube video about the topic as well if anyone is interested, just a 101 about my views on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1OEzcU5CZw Anyway for me I am very interested in both using pain to attain Gnosis and to be used as a tool for magick for another practitioner. I am also very spiritual and everything I do get colored by my religious views so naturally kink get spiritual to for me. I do think that for me being submissive is part of my inner self, perhaps part of my soul and so that one way that I can develop spiritually are through such activities and as such scenes become religious rituals for me. I wish you all well I've been a initiate of a BTW Craft Trad for over fifteen years. About as long as I was into BDSM. My Trad is not Gardnerian in exact linage. But I've read some of the stuff Gerald Gardner wrote back in the day. Talked to peeps about his methods. He clearly utilized BDSM skills/techniques to induce more powerful changes in consciousness. I say he, but my trad does not originate with him or any of his direct line. And we do similar. Yet. I've been "selfish" or prude, cuz wife and I have kept BDSM mostly in the bedroom and have not expounded on what we were taught even tho we are in a great place to do so as kinksters. Stuff works great, why mess with it has basically been our motto. Until recently. If this is of interest to you I suggest reading Gardners writings as well as those of Allister Crowley (try to have an open mind) as well as what Doreen Valiente wrote. Each offers a unique perspective. An interesting side note.. At lease one informed pro Dom (a Lady of course) has comented that Gerald was "Topping from the Bottom"

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 7:45:19 AM)
I must say this is a very powerful area to explore. But go cautiously and mind the state of your relationship to your partner if you use one. Also. Take very detailed notes. And as a warning to all. Many of those who claim to follow Crowley only do so because they think they can act however they want, and be hedonistic gits. That was not his message. Don't trust people like that. Please.

angelikaJ -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 7:51:38 AM)
This likely is not what You had in mind but - serving [my] Master is my Spiritual practice.

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 7:52:39 AM)
My phones volume is damaged and I can't hear your video over the equipment running here at work. It's a my janky and abused I phone not a prob with your video. I'll watch it tonight with my wife. I apologize for not being able to comment on it before then. BB

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 7:57:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ This likely is not what You had in mind but - serving [my] Master is my Spiritual practice. I get your meaning. But... It's actually a very powerful truth you just spoke. Serving your Master being your spiritual experiance is essentially you connecting with "the God" and male divinity. When I "worship" my wife I am worshiping all women and the female Devine by "proxy".

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:08:58 AM)
This is definitely spiritual for me. Serving Himself is (among other things) my way of opening myself up to my own inner Goddess, it also allows me to honor the patriarchal structure that our culture is founded upon. Though I'm not a pagan (I don't adhere to any ism) I daily strive to be more in tune with nature and more in touch with the primal instincts in all of us. Being aware of my spiritual side makes me a better, more well-rounded human being.

nephandi -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:11:28 AM)
Greetings quote: I've been a initiate of a BTW Craft Trad for over fifteen years. About as long as I was into BDSM. My Trad is not Gardnerian in exact linage. But I've read some of the stuff Gerald Gardner wrote back in the day. Talked to peeps about his methods. He clearly utilized BDSM skills/techniques to induce more powerful changes in consciousness. I say he, but my trad does not originate with him or any of his direct line. And we do similar. Gardener certainly had some elements of BDSM in his writings yes, allot of rituals that involved whips and rope. However the question is if you can call this BDSM themed when the purpose of it is not BDSM, the intent is not. I mean they cane people in prisons in Malaysia, I would not call that BDSM even if the prisoners are bound and get caned on their bare behinds, for the intention is not BDSM. But I guess such things are a matter of perspective. I mean many would see a ritual where the applicant is bound naked and flogged to cleanse her and to facilitate a new beginning in his or her life as BDSM, though I am not so sure I would. I do not see all pain rituals as BDSM, though there are flowing lines here. quote: Yet. I've been "selfish" or prude, cuz wife and I have kept BDSM mostly in the bedroom and have not expounded on what we were taught even tho we are in a great place to do so as kinksters. Stuff works great, why mess with it has basically been our motto. Until recently. Why would it be selfish or prude if you keep BDSM to the bedroom? Is it not up to the individual how public they want their kink? No one else should have anything to say about that...well unless you want it way...way...way...public as in having a scene on the bus, that people might not be to fond of, but anything else, if you want to keep it hidden, do that, if you want to be more open about it do that, it is up to you and your wife. quote: If this is of interest to you I suggest reading Gardners writings as well as those of Allister Crowley (try to have an open mind) as well as what Doreen Valiente wrote. Each offers a unique perspective. I have been an occultist for 21 years. I am well read in Crowley's works, familliar with Gardner. Valiente I have not gotten to yet but yes I do plan to write her works as well quote: An interesting side note.. At lease one informed pro Dom (a Lady of course) has comented that Gerald was "Topping from the Bottom" Gerard as in Gardner...that is to funny, can you show me where you found that quote please? I would love to read it. I wish you well

nephandi -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:15:52 AM)
Greetings quote: Hmm, interesting topic. I've had many friends who are Pagans/Wiccans. I even went to a Pagan Festival before. Very friendly people. I wonder if people in in this Lifestyle practice Magick with their rituals. I do but not as often as I would like. I do love using BDSM for magickal rituals but while Aswad do practice we often do not work magickally that well together unfortunately. When I do use BDSM for magick however it is just amazing, the energy build up really quickly and just feels awesome. I wish you well

nephandi -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:19:26 AM)
Greetings quote: This likely is not what You had in mind but - serving [my] Master is my Spiritual practice. Well getting Spiritual fulfillment from serving one's Master is a form of Spiritual BDSM at least in my mind, it do not have to be set into a system or be a given religion, just a feeling of something Spiritual is enough I think. I wish you well

nephandi -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:39:01 AM)
Greetings quote: I must say this is a very powerful area to explore. But go cautiously and mind the state of your relationship to your partner if you use one. Also. Take very detailed notes. Detailed notes are useful in any kind of occult work, I am not so sure BDSM sex magick needs more caution than other kinds of magick though. quote: And as a warning to all. Many of those who claim to follow Crowley only do so because they think they can act however they want, and be hedonistic gits. That was not his message. Don't trust people like that. Please. Well in my experience it is those who have never read or studies Crowley who think this, those who are familiar with his works generally know the truth that being a follower of Thelema is not an excuse to just not take any responsibility in their life and act like twats, it is the opposite, following Thelema means showing even more responsibility than otherwise, it means owning one's life and actions completely among other things. quote: My phones volume is damaged and I can't hear your video over the equipment running here at work. It's a my janky and abused I phone not a prob with your video. I'll watch it tonight with my wife. I apologize for not being able to comment on it before then. Please do not apologize, I am honored you would watch my video at all. I hope you will enjoy it though my camera is not the best. quote: I get your meaning. But... It's actually a very powerful truth you just spoke. Serving your Master being your spiritual experiance is essentially you connecting with "the God" and male divinity. When I "worship" my wife I am worshiping all women and the female Devine by "proxy". That is a very interesting way to look at it, worshiping the Goddess or the God through servitude to them by proxy of a Master or a Mistress, quite interesting. Yes I think looking at it this way would be a very meaningful way for me to look at it. The problem is that me and Aswad is worshiping different Gods for the most part, but off course Yang, male energy and so I could still worship though service to him. I wish you well

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:40:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nephandi Greetings quote: I've been a initiate of a BTW Craft Trad for over fifteen years. About as long as I was into BDSM. My Trad is not Gardnerian in exact linage. But I've read some of the stuff Gerald Gardner wrote back in the day. Talked to peeps about his methods. He clearly utilized BDSM skills/techniques to induce more powerful changes in consciousness. I say he, but my trad does not originate with him or any of his direct line. And we do similar. Gardener certainly had some elements of BDSM in his writings yes, allot of rituals that involved whips and rope. However the question is if you can call this BDSM themed when the purpose of it is not BDSM, the intent is not. I mean they cane people in prisons in Malaysia, I would not call that BDSM even if the prisoners are bound and get caned on their bare behinds, for the intention is not BDSM. But I guess such things are a matter of perspective. I mean many would seeE a ritual where the applicant is bound naked and flogged to cleanse her and to facilitate a new beginning in his or her life as BDSM, though I am not so sure I would. I do not see all pain rituals as BDSM, though there are flowing lines here. quote: Yet. I've been "selfish" or prude, cuz wife and I have kept BDSM mostly in the bedroom and have not expounded on what we were taught even tho we are in a great place to do so as kinksters. Stuff works great, why mess with it has basically been our motto. Until recently. Why would it be selfish or prude if you keep BDSM to the bedroom? Is it not up to the individual how public they want their kink? No one else should have anything to say about that...well unless you want it way...way...way...public as in having a scene on the bus, that people might not be to fond of, but anything else, if you want to keep it hidden, do that, if you want to be more open about it do that, it is up to you and your wife. quote: If this is of interest to you I suggest reading Gardners writings as well as those of Allister Crowley (try to have an open mind) as well as what Doreen Valiente wrote. Each offers a unique perspective. I have been an occultist for 21 years. I am well read in Crowley's works, familliar with Gardner. Valiente I have not gotten to yet but yes I do plan to write her works as well quote: An interesting side note.. At lease one informed pro Dom (a Lady of course) has comented that Gerald was "Topping from the Bottom" Gerard as in Gardner...that is to funny, can you show me where you found that quote please? I would love to read it. I wish you well In my experiance. Many BTW (British Traditional Witchcraft) groups who derive their linage directly from Gerald now use his BDSM type "moves" do so ritualistically rather than literally and they lose something of the intended impact of his rites. I've studied Gerald quite a bit. ( my lines "Progenetress") may have studied with Gerald in his original training coven. So he is of great interest to us. My line was originally taught we practice "the one true Craft". Later we discovered Gerald's crew who practiced very similar. Now we all lump ourselves together as BTW Trads. I've read all of the Guarderian book. In fact my book encompasses his and expounds on that with 1000+ extra pages. But our CORE is very similar. Without any doubt. I'll swear Gerald was initiated into something much older than he. I will state that he may have made changes. But he must have kept the "BDSM" stuff pure in his teachings.

nephandi -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:43:43 AM)
Greetings quote: This is definitely spiritual for me. Serving Himself is (among other things) my way of opening myself up to my own inner Goddess, it also allows me to honor the patriarchal structure that our culture is founded upon. Though I'm not a pagan (I don't adhere to any ism) I daily strive to be more in tune with nature and more in touch with the primal instincts in all of us. Being aware of my spiritual side makes me a better, more well-rounded human being. Thank you for your comment. So for you serving your man makes you feel your inner Goddess awakening as it becomes a microcosms to the Archetypes of patriarchy? That is an interesting and powerful way to look at it. I wish you well

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:44:44 AM)
To be exact. BTW scholars say Gerald may have studied with out Progenetoriss. But that's wear our stuff diverges. We do not share a single rite with his Trad. But our rites do parellel each other. Enough so that my Trad is called BTW which is mostly made of Gerald's descendants.

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:51:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nephandi Greetings quote: I've been a initiate of a BTW Craft Trad for over fifteen years. About as long as I was into BDSM. My Trad is not Gardnerian in exact linage. But I've read some of the stuff Gerald Gardner wrote back in the day. Talked to peeps about his methods. He clearly utilized BDSM skills/techniques to induce more powerful changes in consciousness. I say he, but my trad does not originate with him or any of his direct line. And we do similar. Gardener certainly had some elements of BDSM in his writings yes, allot of rituals that involved whips and rope. However the question is if you can call this BDSM themed when the purpose of it is not BDSM, the intent is not. I mean they cane people in prisons in Malaysia, I would not call that BDSM even if the prisoners are bound and get caned on their bare behinds, for the intention is not BDSM. But I guess such things are a matter of perspective. I mean many would see a ritual where the applicant is bound naked and flogged to cleanse her and to facilitate a new beginning in his or her life as BDSM, though I am not so sure I would. I do not see all pain rituals as BDSM, though there are flowing lines here. quote: Yet. I've been "selfish" or prude, cuz wife and I have kept BDSM mostly in the bedroom and have not expounded on what we were taught even tho we are in a great place to do so as kinksters. Stuff works great, why mess with it has basically been our motto. Until recently. Why would it be selfish or prude if you keep BDSM to the bedroom? Is it not up to the individual how public they want their kink? No one else should have anything to say about that...well unless you want it way...way...way...public as in having a scene on the bus, that people might not be to fond of, but anything else, if you want to keep it hidden, do that, if you want to be more open about it do that, it is up to you and your wife. quote: If this is of interest to you I suggest reading Gardners writings as well as those of Allister Crowley (try to have an open mind) as well as what Doreen Valiente wrote. Each offers a unique perspective. I have been an occultist for 21 years. I am well read in Crowley's works, familliar with Gardner. Valiente I have not gotten to yet but yes I do plan to write her works as well quote: An interesting side note.. At lease one informed pro Dom (a Lady of course) has comented that Gerald was "Topping from the Bottom" Gerard as in Gardner...that is to funny, can you show me where you found that quote please? I would love to read it. I wish you well I'm being selfish cuz I'm not using my expertise in kink to help my Trad. But.. There are others who are more proficient in kink than me. (we have at least one pro Domme) if it was about horse archery Ide be publishing papers to my peeps often. Yet I've kept my BDSM info private.

nephandi -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:54:21 AM)
Greetings quote: To be exact. BTW scholars say Gerald may have studied with out Progenetoriss. But that's wear our stuff diverges. We do not share a single rite with his Trad. But our rites do parellel each other. Enough so that my Trad is called BTW which is mostly made of Gerald's descendants. You have to forgive me I am horrible with shortened words and acronyms, what do BTW stand for again? There are allot of scholars who say allot of things about Gardener, some of it may even be true. :P I wish you well

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:55:06 AM)
Nephandi. I've got several responses to your post. (I want to chat more with u about this.) but I'm on a crany I phone andits tough to read my responses when I'm trying to post. So I post when I think my message is understandable. I want to apologize for the hassle.

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 8:59:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nephandi Greetings quote: To be exact. BTW scholars say Gerald may have studied with out Progenetoriss. But that's wear our stuff diverges. We do not share a single rite with his Trad. But our rites do parellel each other. Enough so that my Trad is called BTW which is mostly made of Gerald's descendants. You have to forgive me I am horrible with shortened words and acronyms, what do BTW stand for again? There are allot of scholars who say allot of things about Gardener, some of it may even be true. :P I wish you well Lol. No prob! BTW stand for British Tradirional Wicca. It's a term we use to seperate us from mainstream "book read and taught supposed wiccans". It desifnates a Trad that's handed down person to person. Word for word. Nothing may be subtracted. But stuff can be added to a line of teacher/student.

SwitchNSpanky -> RE: Magickal and Spiritual BDSM (6/19/2013 9:05:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SwitchNSpanky To be exact. BTW scholars say Gerald may have studied with out Progenetoriss. But that's wear our stuff diverges. We do not share a single rite with his Trad. But our rites do parellel each other. Enough so that my Trad is called BTW which is mostly made of Gerald's descendants. The very exhistence of my Trad disputes these supposed sholorly claims. His Trad and Mine are very different but the fundamentals are very very similar. Somewhere, there is obviously a common root from which we all decend.

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