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RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/27/2006 2:32:49 PM   
Lockardian


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		OK, well I should have expected that really. From what I have seen of this discussion group you lot are very safety conscious :) I really should have said this in the first post.
When I first heard of this practise, I was concerned about the safety issues as well. I mean shes a dear friend who I love very much. I would never sleep again if anything happened to her and I knew I could have stopped it. When I got him alone I asked him if he really just abandoned her. I got the animated wise and knowing wink, and told not to worry, everything is completely under his control. He wouldnt give me full details but I am happy he knows what he is doing and shes not at risk. I dont know what she knows, but I wont say anything to her in case I shatter any fanatasies and ruin a very healthy perversion.

Jali- yes they do live in australia. I asked her about wildlife, she has seen a lot, but no saftey concerns. We dont have man eating wallabies here :)

Albatross- yes they are very aware of the muscular issues, the bonds are not so tight to render her immobile. Dehydration is also an issue they are mindfull of before anyone mentions it.

everyone else- thanks for your derogatory replies. Its always nice be called a liar. Think this, if you told a non-bdsm person, who had never seen anything to do with bdsm, all about what you do (or want to do), would you expect them to believe you? Everyones kink is special to them. Dont trash it.

Thanks anyway.


(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/27/2006 2:42:27 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		:( hey I didnt call you a lier :(  and i wasnte derogatory... guess thats what i get for beeing conserned :P

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/28/2006 5:46:45 PM   
Alixandria


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/27/2005
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Status: offline 		OK, I knew there was a prejudice against this kink but didn't realize it was this bad.

Before Yahoo went and played their silly games with the adult groups I was a member of a self-bondage group and a couple of captivity groups.  (And, folks, although this stuff seems over to the top to you, let me assure you that this kink attracts a *lot* of people who are really into safety technology.)

The self-bondage group dissolved on Yahoo but has resurrected itself on a forum run by Gromet:  http://www.boundforum.com/forum/ .  There they discuss in detail the safety considerations around long-term strenuous bondage.

If you like I can do some research into where the captivity groups went.

Alix

P.S. Darn it's distressing to come out into the kink community to find out that they're just as judgemental as vanillas. 

(in reply to Alixandria)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/28/2006 6:04:14 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alixandria

OK, I knew there was a prejudice against this kink but didn't realize it was this bad.

Before Yahoo went and played their silly games with the adult groups I was a member of a self-bondage group and a couple of captivity groups.  (And, folks, although this stuff seems over to the top to you, let me assure you that this kink attracts a *lot* of people who are really into safety technology.)

The self-bondage group dissolved on Yahoo but has resurrected itself on a forum run by Gromet:  http://www.boundforum.com/forum/ .  There they discuss in detail the safety considerations around long-term strenuous bondage.

If you like I can do some research into where the captivity groups went.

Alix

P.S. Darn it's distressing to come out into the kink community to find out that they're just as judgemental as vanillas. 


Which is why I don't explore some of my more "out there"' kinks on public boards. I've done quite a bit of captivity bondage-and made special gear for it. From padded leather cuffs, to screw down iron shackles and bilboes.

The one common theme running through it all-that I knew

1. The captive had no overiding health problems that prohibited being abandoned.

2. That the enviornment they were in was safe.

3. That the GEAR, and way it was applied, would not do harm-even if they struggled to escape it.

4. That they had enough experience,and lack of mental issues to handle it.

There are a great many people who enjoy this sort of thing, and not a lot who will undergo what it takes (refer to my handle) in seeing to them being able to have it.

But the judgements here came from the op NOT doing what I just outlined. Letting people imagine that unsafe conditions were being allowed, in a cavalier manner.

If one does not show competence,you will be judged as having none.

(in reply to Alixandria)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/28/2006 6:18:07 PM   
Alixandria


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/27/2005
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

But the judgements here came from the op NOT doing what I just outlined. Letting people imagine that unsafe conditions were being allowed, in a cavalier manner.

If one does not show competence,you will be judged as having none.

Unfortunately, the negative comments came even though the OP was guilty of nothing worse than having friends who were into this. 

You have to remember that there are frequent threads on breath play and how *hawt* that is with nary a mention of safety.  But as soon as one mentions bondage the safety police come out in force. 

One fellow on another general forum board I'm on made mention of leaving a sub hogtied for an hour (with a baby alarm plus not being either blindfolded or gagged) and the outrage was amazing.  One woman said if a person is in bondage more than half an hour that the limb will lose circulation, gangrene will set in and an amputation will be necessary.  No one contradicted her because they were too busy piling on that OP.

Because I follow the literature, I noticed the frequency and duration of non-eventful experience and assumed the top probably was doing something right (though in the nature of the kink, the safety precautions should be invisible to the bottom).  If he was just talking to the woman at the time, I can see where the impression comes from.

But even when the OP detailed that safety was in fact being taken care of, no apologies were forthcoming and one of the posters got all annoyed that her insults weren't seen in the light she imagined.

Alix

P.S. And I'm not even going to start on the reaction I've gotten at real time munches when I've been silly enough to admit I'm interested in bondage.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/28/2006 6:29:58 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alixandria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

But the judgements here came from the op NOT doing what I just outlined. Letting people imagine that unsafe conditions were being allowed, in a cavalier manner.

If one does not show competence,you will be judged as having none.

Unfortunately, the negative comments came even though the OP was guilty of nothing worse than having friends who were into this. 

You have to remember that there are frequent threads on breath play and how *hawt* that is with nary a mention of safety.  But as soon as one mentions bondage the safety police come out in force. 

One fellow on another general forum board I'm on made mention of leaving a sub hogtied for an hour (with a baby alarm plus not being either blindfolded or gagged) and the outrage was amazing.  One woman said if a person is in bondage more than half an hour that the limb will lose circulation, gangrene will set in and an amputation will be necessary.  No one contradicted her because they were too busy piling on that OP.

Because I follow the literature, I noticed the frequency and duration of non-eventful experience and assumed the top probably was doing something right (though in the nature of the kink, the safety precautions should be invisible to the bottom).  If he was just talking to the woman at the time, I can see where the impression comes from.

But even when the OP detailed that safety was in fact being taken care of, no apologies were forthcoming and one of the posters got all annoyed that her insults weren't seen in the light she imagined.

Alix

P.S. And I'm not even going to start on the reaction I've gotten at real time munches when I've been silly enough to admit I'm interested in bondage.



In something like ten years of doing bondage, a light rope burn was about the worst that ever happened to someone I kept captive-And that was due to a bottom insisting on my using untreated hemp, to do a full body harness and hog tie with.

And then spending an hour playing houdini-and failing misreably at it. I even sat there and teased her while she tried,asking if she would maybe like me to help?

"no no no!!!! I can do this on my own, fucker!" (wiggle wiggle writhe)

"As you wish dear."

And believe me,I have done much more horrible, humiliating, and sadistic things in my time,no one fever failed to walk away under thier own power. They may have LIMPED a bit,but they made it.

But again,that's between me and mine,and I am fairly private. I expect to open myself up to abuse from those who do not partake at my level-so I merely refrain from sharing.


< Message edited by Caretakr -- 6/28/2006 6:32:52 PM >

(in reply to Alixandria)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/28/2006 7:00:40 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Well, Locardian, at the risk of venturing "My personal experience" with this fetish and being accused of making the thread "all about Me" again, I'll tell you how I've handled this fantasy:

Here in Texas we have fire ants that would kill someone bound and left alone in the outdoors.  (Case in point: a rancher neighbor was a gun fanatic and attempted to climb the 5 strand gaucho-wire fence to get to a rifle target 300 yeards distant, rather than go around the long end of the fence to the nearest gate.  He hung himself up in the barbwires, had a stroke and died from the fire ants swarming him.  His remains were found about 5 days later. True story.)

That said, I once treated an empty hay barn for fire ants for about 3 months in a row, exterminated skunks in the area, cleaned out the barn of loose straw (so no copperheads or other nasty venomous varmints were lurking about), rigged a block and tackle and some tie down hames on a few of the upright poles and across an overhead beam or two, hooded a sub, bound him and suspended him from the rafter between two of the poles and drove off in My noisy truck far, far down the county road until the sounds of the truck must have faded far away (about 2 and a half miles down the road). 

I purportedly left him there, hanging, all day.

About 6PM I trundled back in the noisy truck, released him, threw him in the back of the pickup bed and trundled him, hogtied, across the bumpy road and cattle guards, to an unknown 'dungeon', (er, umm, really just my friend's garage), where I exhibited him in front of several other Dommes, ridiculed and humiliated him, let the Dommes jeer at him, make fun of him, insist that I get his pathetic little wee wee out of their sight, and laughed at him as the Dommes loaded him back into the bed of the pickup truck so that I could take him 'home' for a bath and a well deserved meal and cuddle time.

What the silly boy never knew was that I drove the pickup away from him, alright, to a bridled mare that had been left in a corral on the other side of the farm. 

I rode the mare bareback back to the empty haybarn, left her in the shade of some trees a short distance away, walked silently to the barn and kept him company all afternoon. 

It was hilarious!  I got to see every uncomfortable wriggle, grimace, strain, watched him test every rope, every knot, heard every whine, every moan, heard him call for me out loud in frustration, then in anger, then in trepidation, then in fear.  Finally, he fell completely silent, straining to listen, and waited it out.  He told Me later that he just couldn't believe in his heart I would have abandoned him, and he was right, of course, but he always kept wondering whether he was completely alone or whether I was waiting there somewhere nearby, completely silent!

The 'fellow Dommes' were simply three close vanilla friends who know all about WIITWD and My participation it this lifestyle and who love Me anyway. 

They were all game enough, God bless 'em,  to start with a few of the scripted lines of jive and chastisement that I had given them beforehand, then once the game of it set in with them they took off on their own and handled themselves like Pros!  If he could only have seen them: I'm sure he fantasized they were all lavishly attired in fetish gear,  but there they were, drinking glasses of wine, decked out in sweats and faded jeans, giving him the fantasy of his life.

It's all about making the sub think that they've been left alone, while never being careless enough to ever leave them alone.

Have I ever admitted that it was all a hoax?

Hell, no!

There's nothing quite as delicious as a really Great Mind Fuck.  I'd be willing to bet that the 750 hours she spent 'alone' she really spent being watched from a nearby observation point.

TexasMaam

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 6/28/2006 7:02:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/28/2006 8:01:13 PM   
LokisBrat


Posts: 431
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Mayberry, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco

I would suggest you look at the selfbondage sites about safety issues.  I recognise that this isn't selfbd, but once left alone it amounts to the same.  An emergency release is a must.

Ideally, he should never leave her alone, but just allow her to believe she is.


I agree with this totally.  Care and safety is just as much my job, as being submissive is Brats.  It is my duty as her caretaker not to put her in harms way.  I feel the same impact can be made from "making" her think she is alone, while still having a watchful eye on the situation.

LOKI


_____________________________

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-Loki

(in reply to Brosco)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 2:02:52 PM   
Whiterabbit0117


Posts: 68
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		Jay Wiseman reports being left alone while in bondage is the number one cause of death in the community.

For those who don't know of Jay, he is the author of SM101 and Erotic Bondage Handbook.  He became the guru of scene safety, becoming a repository of scene horror stories.

For those interested, falls are the number 1 cause of injury.


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(in reply to Lockardian)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 2:34:05 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

1.  There should always be a way for a person to free her/himself.  Period. With ease.
2.  No one should be left completely alone.  They can be lead to believe they are alone.
3.  No one should be bound for hours, especially in the same position.

Get these folks in touch with someone from your local group that can instruct them in safe bondage, please.



And remember to squeeze your eyes closed real tight and chant: "My way's right and you way's wrong!"

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 3:17:46 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

This is very unsafe behaviour, an unsafe fetish therefore.
 
The first danger is a blocked circulation, of course. This may result in amputation and even death.
The second are rats and other small carnivores.
Also there are many birds that will attack the defenseless and for example eat their eyes.
Then there are bears, cougars and wolves.
 
Such an abandoned person should never be left alone and always be guarded.
I would advise a narrow mesh cage to keep most predators out.
If not, then put her at least six meters up a tree, or eight if she is suspended from a branch.
Whether or not she is abandoned, at least one other person should know about it and where to find her in case her friend suffers a mishap like an accident or death.
Also, she should be sufficiently hydrated and have plenty of drinking water available.
 


I know this couple who have a car fetish. He actually straps her into a car and then he gets in on the other side and drives the car around on public roads.

Almost all cars, as you know, operate on a principle of combustion. That is to say that explosions are involved in the operation of the engine AND YET THESE VEHICLES ALMOST ALL HAVE A TANK OF GASOLINE ON BOARD.

DO THE MATH PEOPLE!

We all know that never a day goes by when someone is not killed in one of these automotive devices yet this couple, heedless of of the principles of Safe Sane Consensual BDSM, employ a car in their play. I mean tires can fail, brakes can fail, accelerators can and do get stuck and cause cars to race off into fatal collisions with big heavy things, and yet these people STILL use cars in their kink.

In fact a really famous guy you've probably never heard of says that car crashes are the leading cause of death among people in the community who happen to be driving to a munch or something.

This crazy irresponsible couple; I swear. Don't they know about drunk drivers on the road? I mean if you use cars in your kink then you can't deny that you are implicitly inviting drunken people to interact non-consensually with your partner. And everybody knows that if you so much as have a beer with dinner before giving your honey birthday spankins she'll be brain dead in minutes and you, my friend, will go straight to H E double-toothpicks.


So:

No tying people up and leaving them for a while.
No driving.
And no swimming either cause it is well known that some fabrics shrink after they are moistened and your trunks could frickin' sieze up and cause a radically decompensatory emergent event right there by the pool at the Marriott.

And please don't even get me started on the immorality of letting your partner mountan climb, sky dive, spelunk, camp out (i.e. become unconscious in a tent surrounded by ravening hordes of rats and bears and cougars and mosquitos and stuff.




quote:


birds that will attack the defenseless for example and eat their eyes


Uh oh. I'm sitting near an open window, immobilized with laughter.


Thanks. I needed that.


< Message edited by Noah -- 6/30/2006 3:26:46 PM >

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 5:46:53 PM   
cynthiamarie


Posts: 205
Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
Status: offline 		Animals in traps have had birds like hawks eat out their eyes.  I don't know if it's happened with people *shudders*.

The mindfuck part is nice, but...how could I have any control over what is mine if I'm not there to guard against others coming (two or four legged animals) and making non-consensual use of my property? 

 What if some serial killer was driving around looking for a nice spot to dispose of a body and sees a nekkid subbie tied to a tree, with nobody guarding her/him?   

How about some drinking buddies in the back of a pickup truck who suddenly chance on the scene and decide on a gang bang...and also have no condoms?  (If the truckload of guys had been pre-arranged and had condoms handy, that's different.)

I'd have to vote for the pup tent with a loaded gun. (No need to get sunburned while protecting what's mine.)

I'm not into public play, nor interruptions...that's just me though.  If it were on private property...hm. 

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 6:24:49 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		What if the sky fell tomorrow, and killed us ALL?

Wanders off to roast "chicken little" on a spit.


(in reply to cynthiamarie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 6:47:14 PM   
Kashan


Posts: 51
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline 		I know someone placed an ad saying they were looking for a sub to tie up as they were studying with Goliath. If you happen to read this,please contact me as Goliath is an old friend I'd like to chat with again.
I can certianly see how someone could die from being suspended and falling, but that is why people should study it and practice with experienced folk before doing it for long periods. However, whther they are left or not would have nothing to do with it, unless you happen to be standing underneath them to catch their fall. I don't recall anyone mentioning being suspended and left, but it may happen.
I had a friend who was left locked in a closet for 2 hours while her boyfriend went to soccer practice. Not my cuppa tea, as I tend to need to pee hourly, and wouldn't want to ruin the floor, but she was happy about it.
Judge not lest ye be judged.

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(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 7:00:44 PM   
cynthiamarie


Posts: 205
Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
Status: offline 		*chicken little cries OUCH DAMMIT, and glares at the sky and plots revenge*



I spent a year in Wyoming and went hunting with my father.  We also had a problem with packs of dogs gone feral attacking people.  I know wild animals don't usually attack people but there are well documented exceptions.  Some areas have more animals with rabies and they don't always act "normal", and some animals will attack if a woman is having her period.

I'm glad this works for them, and she's been safe.

(in reply to Kashan)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 7:49:19 PM   
Invictus754


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
This is very unsafe behaviour, an unsafe fetish therefore. 

Oh, c'mon...many 'nilla people would say whipping someone is barbaric, and is very unsafe behavior (and therefore and unsafe fetish).  What if you break the skin and they get infected and die (the real possibility is there, but not likely)
 
quote:


The second are rats and other small carnivores.
Also there are many birds that will attack the defenseless and for example eat their eyes.

When was the last time you saw a bird pecking someone's eyes?  You've been watching too many Hitchcock movies.

quote:


Such an abandoned person should never be left alone and always be guarded.
I would advise a narrow mesh cage to keep most predators out.
If not, then put her at least six meters up a tree, or eight if she is suspended from a branch.
Whether or not she is abandoned, at least one other person should know about it and where to find her in case her friend suffers a mishap like an accident or death.
Also, she should be sufficiently hydrated and have plenty of drinking water available.

Everyone in this discussion is thinking that these people have no brains.  Maybe the chance that he gets killed and can't come back makes her wet for a few hours she is hanging there? Maybe the purple hands make her think she may go the rest of her life like a freak and she loves that feeling?  Everyone is too judgemental about what is safe and what is not.  This might not be safe for you, but don't put your values on someone else's kink.  If she gets eaten by a bear, so what?  We have saved one bear from starvation.  How does their 'unsafe' play affect anyone here? 
 
Put the powdered wigs down and step out of the judges' black robes, and back away from them slowly - and no one gets hurt.  Please learn to live and let live. 

< Message edited by Invictus754 -- 6/30/2006 8:01:10 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 7:59:51 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		fast reply,no one freak out that I'm 'targeting" them.

I've done abandonment stuff safely. Things like stuffing a girl in a cage in depends-and then going off to the store. The worst that happened, was that she was embarrassed by needing a diaper change when I got back.. We both KNEW the house wasn't going to burn down, nor did we worry that she would mysteriously choke to death on a dust bunny, in my abscence.

What DID happen was her getting the unique feeling of being caged and  objectified-without feeling I was being an absolute wuss over it.

(in reply to Invictus754)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 8:05:23 PM   
Invictus754


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
fast reply,no one freak out that I'm 'targeting" them.


Thanks for your concern, but I really don't notice if someone used my post or not to reply (and wouldn't have noticed this time but it was directly afterward).  I probably have not been as indignant as I should have been on many occasions.  Feel free to target me as much as you wish.    

_____________________________

You never know your limits, until you push them
If slavery is a gift, the Africans were pretty fucking generous in the 1700 and 1800s, weren't they?

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 8:14:34 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		ok, ku nichi wa..........I buy the assumption and therefore the deal.

He tells some anecdote in one of the epistles he wrote how self-bondage is bad, I recollect that one of the salient points is that he tipped over an electric space heater eeling......

kann du pa griepa?

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(in reply to Whiterabbit0117)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Info on being tied up and left alone? - 6/30/2006 8:18:43 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
fast reply,no one freak out that I'm 'targeting" them.


Thanks for your concern, but I really don't notice if someone used my post or not to reply (and wouldn't have noticed this time but it was directly afterward).  I probably have not been as indignant as I should have been on many occasions.  Feel free to target me as much as you wish.    


Thanks,I just got chewed out by someone in another topic-who thought  she was important enough for me to make value judgments over. This board can suck for making general replies!

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 6/30/2006 8:19:24 PM >

(in reply to Invictus754)
Profile   Post #: 40
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