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RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/1/2013 11:49:13 PM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What planet are you from? If you doubt paternity you can always seek a genetic test. They're not terribly expensive nor are they invasive, a cheek swab, so any mother refusing to let you get the test is going to have a hard time explaining that to a judge.
https://www.homedna.com/products.html?gclid=CMuo7LuXkLgCFSJlMgodeVkAdg
looks like just over $100 for the full test.


I'm on the planet where there are documented cases of men paying child support for years despite not being the biological father. It happens more than you'd think.

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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 2:36:04 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I didnt ask for, or get, child support, help with education, medical expenses.. yadda yadda yadda... it was all on me. So, yeah, I can say what i did.


Key words -- "ask for." The truth is, had you asked, you'd have gotten the support, even if the guy was not the child's father.

And later, if the guy proved the child was not his, you wouldn't even be charged with fraud or perjury for claiming it was and costing him a shitload of money.


No I wouldnt have. We werent married. There was no presumption of paternity. Hindsight is bliss... he is still arguing with his recent wife on FB.

Its lovely how you try to wrap up the ills of paternity and child support in a neat little package. Facts are, each state is different in how they approach this law. In some states, the enforcement ends immediately upon the man notifying the court that paternity is not his. In other states, it requires another hearing. In some, if he acted as if he were the dad for a specified period of time, he IS the dad, irregardless of what DNA says.

It behooves men to know the laws of their state before they decide to play.

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RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 4:33:30 AM   
Sampleme


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Status: offline 		Tazzy is my hero! Her arguments are factual, unlike the moral right. It's all about controlling women's bodies, one step at a time. When you have an uterus, you get to decide. Men.....women are coming back to the point of the seventies when we all felt that way. We are tired of your morality and control. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one. You have a penis? Case in point!

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RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 6:18:00 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
No I wouldnt have. We werent married. There was no presumption of paternity.


Try telling that to the scores of men fraudulently paying child support. If the laws are different now, they are only recently different due to the efforts of the former Navy guy who paid support for 10 years....and most of those years were AFTER he proved with a DNA test that he wasn't the father.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
It behooves men to know the laws of their state before they decide to play.


Actually, it behooves them not to get involved with shady skanks only looking for a paycheck.

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 6:20:58 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sampleme

Tazzy is my hero! Her arguments are factual, unlike the moral right. It's all about controlling women's bodies, one step at a time. When you have an uterus, you get to decide. Men.....women are coming back to the point of the seventies when we all felt that way. We are tired of your morality and control. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one. You have a penis? Case in point!


You know...I'm actually pro-choice. I'm really just pro-keeping the government out of my fucking business. But the pro-choice crowd really demonizes itself fighting a 20-week ban. I mean when the thing is still a collection of cells -- I could care less. Barely formed -- still don't care. But at 20 weeks...the thing looks on the sonogram like a BABY. That's a bit of a stretch to call simply a "choice" at that point. That's just people being stupid.

If it takes you 20 weeks to decide on an abortion...you have far more serious issues than an abortion could solve.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 6:26:56 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		You do realize that some women continue to spot during the early part of their pregnancy.

Bleeding during pregnancy is more common than you might think. Approximately 20-25% of women experience bleeding during pregnancy – thats 1 in 4 or 5 women. Around half of those women will continue on to have a healthy baby and the other half will miscarry. The most likely time bleeding occurs is in the first trimester of pregnancy.

Some women may have a once-off bleed, others may bleed throughout their whole pregnancy. This may be in the form of spotting, streaking, period-like blood loss or more.

http://www.bellybelly.com.au/pregnancy/bleeding-in-pregnancy#.UdLUrjvUmM8

Thats typically how most women discover they are pregnant, or start suspecting... they missed a period. If you dont miss, you dont suspect.

4.2% between 16 and 20 weeks
1.4% at or after 21 weeks.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/2/2013 6:27:35 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 6:35:09 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You do realize that some women continue to spot during the early part of their pregnancy.

Bleeding during pregnancy is more common than you might think. Approximately 20-25% of women experience bleeding during pregnancy – thats 1 in 4 or 5 women. Around half of those women will continue on to have a healthy baby and the other half will miscarry. The most likely time bleeding occurs is in the first trimester of pregnancy.

Some women may have a once-off bleed, others may bleed throughout their whole pregnancy. This may be in the form of spotting, streaking, period-like blood loss or more.

http://www.bellybelly.com.au/pregnancy/bleeding-in-pregnancy#.UdLUrjvUmM8

Thats typically how most women discover they are pregnant, or start suspecting... they missed a period. If you dont miss, you dont suspect.

4.2% between 16 and 20 weeks
1.4% at or after 21 weeks.


You do realize 20 weeks is 5 months -- over half the time of the pregnancy, right? I don't care of they have the Bat-signall coming from between their legs or not. At 20 weeks, the baby has appendages, a head and all of it is clearly definable on a sonogram. If you need the cessation of "spotting" to tell you you're pregnant by that point -- again...serious issues.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 6:47:56 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Yes, I am quite sure what 20 weeks is. And its half of a pregnancy. ~gasps~ You dont expect a Labor and Delivery nurse to know that?

And you need to read what i posted again. It can be spotting.. streaking.. or even an almost normal flow.

As far as knowing...



Hell, some arent even showing by 20 weeks.

I didnt start showing until towards the end of my 6th month... and he was 7-13 and 22 inches long at delivery. Many things affect the "showing" part, including the height of the mother, the length of her torso, and weight of the fetus, if its her first pregnancy or not....

Honestly... men.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 7:03:13 AM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What planet are you from? If you doubt paternity you can always seek a genetic test. They're not terribly expensive nor are they invasive, a cheek swab, so any mother refusing to let you get the test is going to have a hard time explaining that to a judge.
https://www.homedna.com/products.html?gclid=CMuo7LuXkLgCFSJlMgodeVkAdg
looks like just over $100 for the full test.


I'm on the planet where there are documented cases of men paying child support for years despite not being the biological father. It happens more than you'd think.

Because the guy thinks he is the father. You were whining about it happening when you doubted paternity.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 7:08:09 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yes, I am quite sure what 20 weeks is. And its half of a pregnancy. ~gasps~ You dont expect a Labor and Delivery nurse to know that?

And you need to read what i posted again. It can be spotting.. streaking.. or even an almost normal flow.

As far as knowing...



Hell, some arent even showing by 20 weeks.

I didnt start showing until towards the end of my 6th month... and he was 7-13 and 22 inches long at delivery. Many things affect the "showing" part, including the height of the mother, the length of her torso, and weight of the fetus, if its her first pregnancy or not....

Honestly... men.

I have a lot of time on my hands during dialysis and during some desperate channel surfing I found that TLC has a show about nothing but women who gave birth without knowing they were pregnant. So it may not be common to not show much but it clearly does happen.

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RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 7:11:05 AM   
DarqueMirror


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Because the guy thinks he is the father. You were whining about it happening when you doubted paternity.


Wrong again. There are many documented cases...hell there are probably websites devoted to it.

The Navy guy who led the charge in Washington to change the laws was deployed to Gulf War I when he learned (10-11 months into the deployment) that he had a paternity case against him. No way to fight it at sea, so his command garnished his wages automatically.

He returned home from the WAR and it was too late to contest. Years later, when he finally got the DNA PROOF that he wasn't the father, the state said "So what? You've been paying this long, you can continue."

You can claim all you like that it doesn't happen -- it does.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 7:37:37 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Because the guy thinks he is the father. You were whining about it happening when you doubted paternity.


Wrong again. There are many documented cases...hell there are probably websites devoted to it.

The Navy guy who led the charge in Washington to change the laws was deployed to Gulf War I when he learned (10-11 months into the deployment) that he had a paternity case against him. No way to fight it at sea, so his command garnished his wages automatically.

He returned home from the WAR and it was too late to contest. Years later, when he finally got the DNA PROOF that he wasn't the father, the state said "So what? You've been paying this long, you can continue."

You can claim all you like that it doesn't happen -- it does.

I've just done a bit of searching and cannot find this story. I have found numerous cases where the man was able to stop paying and in some cases the woman did get prosecuted for fraud.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 8:19:17 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		a suit with the Attorney General’s Office generally include:
a) Application process: Call or visit the Attorney General’s Office of the state where you live for an application. The female must provide the father’s name, social security number, and home address. Upon receipt of the application, the Attorney General’s Office will author the petition to establish a parent-child relationship and file it with the Court on behalf of the mother

b) Father’s responses: The father has 3 choices.

i. Admit: to do so, the alleged father signs a document called an Acknowledgement of Paternity (sometimes called an Affidavit of Paternity). If the alleged father admits to paternity, the statement is filed with the court. The petition to establish a parent-child relationship will be granted and support obligations will be established.

ii. Deny: when paternity is denied, the Attorney General’s Office will get a court order to set up a DNA test. The Attorney General will mail a DNA test notice to the alleged father stating an appointment date, time, and place. The alleged father may have to pay for the DNA test if the results are positive.

iii. Default: if the alleged father has proper service of the petition (i.e., the sheriff or private agency personally gives the alleged father the paper, or it is mailed by certified mail and the father signs for the papers), then the alleged father has proper notice of the suit. If he does not admit or deny the paternity, the court will grant a default to the petition, which usually includes establishing a parent-child relationship and establishing support obligations.

c) Father initiated suits are handled differently. The father follows the application process. However, if the female refuses to cooperate with the suit, the Attorney General has no power to pursue the suit. At this point, the male client is advised to hire a private attorney to continue with the suit. Private Paternity Suits (Non-Attorney General Involvement)

a) Statement of paternity: a statement of paternity, which includes a signed Acknowledgement/Affidavit of Paternity, is used to establish paternity.

b) General denial: when an alleged father is named in a paternity suit, he must answer the complaint. Otherwise, if there is proper service, the court can grant a default judgment. If the alleged father does not believe he is the child’s father, he can file a general denial. When the alleged father files a general denial, there is a request that blood be drawn and a DNA test be used to determine paternity. The answer requests that if the test results are negative, the cost of the test should be paid by the mother who initiated the paternity suit.

c) Father’s initiation for declaration of paternity: a father can bring an action to establish paternity. This is brought to court by the father who is not the subject of a paternity suit. Rather, the father wants a court order establishing him as the father of the child. The legal assistance office can assist you in a pro se action to establish paternity. This document can be used to obligate the father to pay child support. If the father wants to establish custody or visitation rights, he must seek a civilian attorney.

http://www.ncosupport.com/military-law/military-paternity-lawsuit.html

Its certainly changed since my dad was in the military....

But, blood samples can be drawn from the serviceman and delivered back for testing. I have no clue how old the case is that he is talking about. Currently, its as above. If a serviceman keeps quiet and pretends to try and dodge the issue, he will be found the father by default.

Beyond that, the DOD doesnt get involved in paternity matters.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 11:12:24 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I've just done a bit of searching and cannot find this story. I have found numerous cases where the man was able to stop paying and in some cases the woman did get prosecuted for fraud.


You've obviously not searched well enough. It's out there. I heard the interview with the guy in question myself. He was very articulate and detailed in his 10-year ordeal...at the end of which there weren't even charges brought against the slut.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 11:14:39 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Its certainly changed since my dad was in the military....

But, blood samples can be drawn from the serviceman and delivered back for testing. I have no clue how old the case is that he is talking about. Currently, its as above. If a serviceman keeps quiet and pretends to try and dodge the issue, he will be found the father by default.

Beyond that, the DOD doesnt get involved in paternity matters.


Yeah "currently" it's like that. That's because of the guy who paved the way to change it because he was unable to contest it from a deployment to a combat zone. All current information on the "process" is likely a direct result of his labors to get it changed because until that time...a finger point and an "oops, they said he wasn't home when the papers were delivered," etc., was all that was required.

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RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 11:17:12 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Because the guy thinks he is the father. You were whining about it happening when you doubted paternity.


Wrong again. There are many documented cases...hell there are probably websites devoted to it.

The Navy guy who led the charge in Washington to change the laws was deployed to Gulf War I when he learned (10-11 months into the deployment) that he had a paternity case against him. No way to fight it at sea, so his command garnished his wages automatically.

He returned home from the WAR and it was too late to contest. Years later, when he finally got the DNA PROOF that he wasn't the father, the state said "So what? You've been paying this long, you can continue."

You can claim all you like that it doesn't happen -- it does.

I've just done a bit of searching and cannot find this story. I have found numerous cases where the man was able to stop paying and in some cases the woman did get prosecuted for fraud.


Here's others.

http://www.annapolismdfamilylaw.com/2013/06/man-not-the-father-forced-to-pay-support-anyway.shtml
http://www.ejfi.org/family/family-91.htm
http://www.khou.com/news/Houston-man-forced-to-pay-child-support-for-child-that-DNA-proves-isnt-his-124472429.html


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 12:55:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I've just done a bit of searching and cannot find this story. I have found numerous cases where the man was able to stop paying and in some cases the woman did get prosecuted for fraud.


You've obviously not searched well enough. It's out there. I heard the interview with the guy in question myself. He was very articulate and detailed in his 10-year ordeal...at the end of which there weren't even charges brought against the slut.

But you can't provide a name or anything else to make search possible. Running every detail you've already provided got me nothing.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 4:25:47 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

All current information on the "process" is likely a direct result of his labors to get it changed because until that time...a finger point and an "oops, they said he wasn't home when the papers were delivered," etc., was all that was required.


Oops.. all court papers had to be signed for... even back then. No signature, no delivery, no court order.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 4:34:33 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		From your links and not directed only to you, Hill.

quote:

Previously, men had one year to challenge support orders with DNA.


Well, hell, if a man didnt know in a year that wasnt his baby, his intelligence is severely lacking.

quote:

But we learned the new legislation will not help Thomas because his case is old and the courts are looking not backward, but forward.


Then men need to get the law changed again, dont they.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Bravery and fortitude in Texas - 7/2/2013 4:45:01 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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quote:

Here's others.

http://www.annapolismdfamilylaw.com/2013/06/man-not-the-father-forced-to-pay-support-anyway.shtml
http://www.ejfi.org/family/family-91.htm
http://www.khou.com/news/Houston-man-forced-to-pay-child-support-for-child-that-DNA-proves-isnt-his-124472429.html


This issue takes everything down to the bottom line, really, doesn't it? Everyone wants someone to be punished, because the USA loves punishing. Yum! But, damnit, if you punish the mother for lying, you also punish the baby. The baby is either separated from the mother, or it's brought up in prison. You can't do harm to babies in either way, because babies are innocents - that's clear from the Bible. And the State doesn't want to pay for the baby's upkeep, because righteous citizens would complain about the extra taxes they'd have to pay for certain individuals' immorality. The blood-father can't be found or it'd end up being too expensive to try to find him and prove that he's the blood-father. And even if you do that, you *still* have to expend resources on trying to get money out of him. Or pay to imprison him. Mr Taxpayer is still pissed off, and the Bible says that he shouldn't be pissed off (or if it doesn't, then it should do).

So, who's the easiest target here - why, the bloke who was around at the time and *looked* most like the father. It's his own fault for being stupid. Stupidity should be punishable. Everyone is sure that it says that *somewhere* in the Bible. So, whew. Problem solved!

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 7/2/2013 4:52:02 PM >

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