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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes but the poor lad had no trial............

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To claim that George prowling in Martin`s backyard armed, was attacked without provocation, after committing several provocative acts and with a history of looking for trouble(the prior calls to police by George that are now in evidence against him) is just not reasonable......

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I want to see someone demonstrate how he got zimmerman down on the ground with one hand and successfully pound him one handed without zimmerman being able to kick or hit him hard enough to knock him off.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I wonder what the "beyond reasonable doubt" crowd would be saying if Martin, being where he legally had a right to be, had shot Zimmerman and claimed the same defence.

Given the same evidence but in Martin's favor, it would be a clear cut acquittal as well.

You are now getting it, Martin had every right to defend himself from an unknown stranger.

George is the one on trial. What is relevant is if George was right to defend himself from someone causing multiple head injuries against the pavement.

The law and evidence overwhelmingly point to 'yes'.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

So far all the prosecution witnesses have undermined their case and the cracker comment has shown that it was Martin who has engaged in racial profiling.

And how do you expect a young black man from the South to react when a white guy with a shaved head starts following him? How many times has that ended up with headlines like "Skinhead kills youth"

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Walking/running into the night with a gun looking for trouble is not.......what a reasonable person would do. That`s something the jury-moms would not do.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes but the poor lad had no trial............

Not legally relevant.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

First of all, Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, at least by the account of the one surviving witness who was there when it happened. Unfortunately, there is no way to ask the other witness of the incident with first hand knowledge, since of course, he is deceased.

Then there was the girl who was talking to Trayvon on the phone during the fight when the shot was fired. I think someone should introduce the cell phone records for Trayvon's phone, because the only way he could have been talking on the phone while doing the ground and pound thing would have been if he had a blue tooth or some other hands free device, other wise he only had one hand free.

Anyone else catch this?

Someone is not being entirely truthful.

If he did not have a blue tooth or hands free, then how in the hell did he get zimmerman down on the ground in the first place? What did he do, put the phone on speaker and set it on the ground before starting the fight?

I want to see someone demonstrate how he got zimmerman down on the ground with one hand and successfully pound him one handed without zimmerman being able to kick or hit him hard enough to knock him off.

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

Marin was defending himself from and armed stranger who was stalking him.

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Walking/running into the night with a gun looking for trouble is not.......what a reasonable person would do.

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They aren`t going to believe that what George was up to, didn`t cause the tragedy.

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1) Why was an individual walking at night in the rain suspicious in the first damn place? When I did it, I was never approached by security, neighborhood watch or had anyone call the police, regardless if it was 9pm or 3am.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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1) Why was an individual walking at night in the rain suspicious in the first damn place? When I did it, I was never approached by security, neighborhood watch or had anyone call the police, regardless if it was 9pm or 3am.

a history of burglaries by black teens.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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To claim that George prowling in Martin`s backyard armed, was attacked without provocation, after committing several provocative acts and with a history of looking for trouble(the prior calls to police by George that are now in evidence against him) is just not reasonable......

A history of looking for trouble? There was a history of burglaries in the neighborhood:

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Or here:

www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/chapters/chapter7/p2c7s7.4.rtf

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is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent

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The standard is always the reasonable person standard. The Florida law on self defense says the aggressor has a more stringent requirement before it is legally self defense.

According to several quoted details of a Florida appellate ruling all Zimmerman has to do is claim self defense and unless some evidence contradicts his claim beyond a reasonable doubt he gets away with it.

So what am I mischaracterizing?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

So far all the prosecution witnesses have undermined their case and the cracker comment has shown that it was Martin who has engaged in racial profiling.

And how do you expect a young black man from the South to react when a white guy with a shaved head starts following him? How many times has that ended up with headlines like "Skinhead kills youth"

Uh . . . You're in Florida, Dorothy, not Idaho.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're misrepresenting those instructions.

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Ill will and/or evil intent is what will get Zimmerman if he is convicted. He certainly had ill will towards Martin. He thought Martin was a burglar. If he is determined to have been the legal aggressor that shows evil intent.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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1) Why was an individual walking at night in the rain suspicious in the first damn place? When I did it, I was never approached by security, neighborhood watch or had anyone call the police, regardless if it was 9pm or 3am.

a history of burglaries by black teens.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

So was Zimmerman profiling?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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The standard is always the reasonable person standard. The Florida law on self defense says the aggressor has a more stringent requirement before it is legally self defense.

According to several quoted details of a Florida appellate ruling all Zimmerman has to do is claim self defense and unless some evidence contradicts his claim beyond a reasonable doubt he gets away with it.

So what am I mischaracterizing?

Glad to see you are starting to come around. What you don't yet get is that the jury will be charged to consider the self defense argument from Zimmerman's point of view at the moment he reacted. The Law cited earlier says the burden is on the state. Nothing about an aggressor. In your dreams only.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Funny thing, the Sanford Police actually offered a Patrol type position to George, complete with patrol car.

George turned it down.