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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:26:43 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Zimmerman will probably get off due to lack of compelling evidence.



I'm afraid so, Hill.

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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:33:13 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Following someone is not against the law... Martin confronted Zimmerman ok... but... as soon as he attacked Zimmerman he was committing an assault.

You can't just sucker punch someone then start banging their head on the ground for following you...you can call the police... ask the person why they are following you and to stop... or run...or knock on a door... or step into a quick shop... but you take your changes when you assault someone.

There was no stand your ground for Martin because he was the aggressor and initiated the physical confrontation... from that point on Zimmerman could TRY and use the stand your ground statutes.

If I was following you and you turned and came to me and asked what I was doing and said you were calling the police ...you would be in the right... but as soon as you pulled your 1911 and threatened me you would be committing a crime.


Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:33:22 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		And considering the social and cultural situation in the country today, I predict that there will be race riots in every major city.

And the Dems and Repubs are to blame for their continued "Culture War" bullshit by the Dems, and the idiot republicans making down right stupid statements.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 543
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:33:50 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

If you are walking alone at night, in the ran, on the way home from buying a package of skittles and doing nothing that could be construed as criminal, and you notice someone following you, just what the hell are you gonna do?


How pissed off at the world and high am I?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 544
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:35:47 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am going to ask a question to everyone that has posted anything on this topic. Please give honest answers.

If you are walking alone at night, in the ran, on the way home from buying a package of skittles and doing nothing that could be construed as criminal, and you notice someone following you, just what the hell are you gonna do?


What Martin did.


Stopped in my back yard by a gun toting thug.....what Martin did.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 545
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:40:51 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Following someone is not against the law... Martin confronted Zimmerman ok... but... as soon as he attacked Zimmerman he was committing an assault.

You can't just sucker punch someone then start banging their head on the ground for following you...you can call the police... ask the person why they are following you and to stop... or run...or knock on a door... or step into a quick shop... but you take your changes when you assault someone.

There was no stand your ground for Martin because he was the aggressor and initiated the physical confrontation... from that point on Zimmerman could TRY and use the stand your ground statutes.

If I was following you and you turned and came to me and asked what I was doing and said you were calling the police ...you would be in the right... but as soon as you pulled your 1911 and threatened me you would be committing a crime.


Butch



Uh, Actually no, if my intent was detain you until LEOS arrived, there is no crime.

We do not know why Martin threw the initial punch. We have Zimmerman's statement, but even the girl listening on the phone said she heard talking, then the scuffle and finally the phone went dead.

Nothing has been introduced showing that Martin was a hot head prone to fights. The only thing that has been shown is that he was suspended from school for having drugs in his back pack.

The only one that can say why the first punch was thrown is dead.

Now if Zimmerman would have stopped following Trayvon or stayed in his vehicle, there would have been no confrontation. His actions forced Martin to make a choice, continue on, and hope for the best, or confront Zimmerman.

No one else saw the start of the scuffle, they saw Zimmerman on the ground. So unless you can see through the time space continuum to the events of that night, you cannot say that Martin was the aggressor or not. Zimmerman is on trial, I trust his statements about as much as I trusted Bush OR Obama.,

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 546
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:41:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm old... I would walk to the light... no way would I confront someone in that situation...I would be ready to defend myself if I was attacked but I would not try to fight whoever was following me unless I had to.

And I'll bet 90 out of a 100 would do the same as me if they were honest...and that is exactly what they should do in that circumstance....he didn't and look what happened.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 547
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:43:14 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
If you are walking alone at night, in the ran, on the way home from buying a package of skittles and doing nothing that could be construed as criminal, and you notice someone following you, just what the hell are you gonna do?

I would have run and try to get out of the creepy dude's sight so i could hide behind some bushes or a fence until i was sure creepy dude lost interest and left.. but then i am just a sissy girl and would only fight if creepy dude found me and grabbed me.. then i would fight like hell..

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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:43:40 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		There we have it, Zimmerman is innocent because a teenager was stupid.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 549
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:44:16 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Uh, Actually no, if my intent was detain you until LEOS arrived, there is no crime.


Nope... you would have no legal right to hold me... I was not committing a crime. If you tried I would be justified under Florida law to use deadly force...Remember this is one fucked up law

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/29/2013 8:45:36 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 550
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:46:02 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I am going to ask a question to everyone that has posted anything on this topic. Please give honest answers.

If you are walking alone at night, in the ran, on the way home from buying a package of skittles and doing nothing that could be construed as criminal, and you notice someone following you, just what the hell are you gonna do?

When I was in my early 20's and living in Miami, If I couldn't E&E, Zim would have died that night.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 551
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:47:15 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

There we have it, Zimmerman is innocent because a teenager was stupid.


Most assaults are stupid and do not end well for one or the other as this case shows.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 552
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:55:48 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Following someone is not against the law... Martin confronted Zimmerman ok... but... as soon as he attacked Zimmerman he was committing an assault.

You can't just sucker punch someone then start banging their head on the ground for following you...you can call the police... ask the person why they are following you and to stop... or run...or knock on a door... or step into a quick shop... but you take your changes when you assault someone.

There was no stand your ground for Martin because he was the aggressor and initiated the physical confrontation... from that point on Zimmerman could TRY and use the stand your ground statutes.

If I was following you and you turned and came to me and asked what I was doing and said you were calling the police ...you would be in the right... but as soon as you pulled your 1911 and threatened me you would be committing a crime.


Butch


I agree with this if that's how it went down, but there isn't any proof of who threw the first punch.

If it was the kid, the right thing to do would've been to call 911, walk faster, run to the front door, whatever. You don't turn around and kick someone's ass "just in case". In fact, Martin's female friend testified that he called her and said a "creepy ass cracker" was following him. I'm thinking instead of calling her he could have/should have called the police instead.

Doesn't make Zimmerman any less of a moron for using poor judgement and contributing to the whole mess. He does seems like a pussy which is what makes me doubt that he initiated the physical attack, but still, it can't be confirmed.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 553
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 8:56:55 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Uh, Actually no, if my intent was detain you until LEOS arrived, there is no crime.


Nope... you would have no legal right to hold me... I was not committing a crime. If you tried I would be justified under Florida law to use deadly force...Remember this is one fucked up law

Butch



I dont live in Florida, I have lived in key west, and have walked through some pretty high dollar developments at night, since it was the most direct route to wear I was going. Never got stopped, and my attire was your basic "boat bum" homemade cut off jean shorts, dockers, tank top and sun bleached ball cap.

Never got stopped, except by someone asking if I wanted a ride when it was raining, and some really good looking woman who looked old enough to be my mom, who wanted to know if I wanted to take a break on her front porch, and have a drink.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 554
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:07:03 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm old... I would walk to the light... no way would I confront someone in that situation...I would be ready to defend myself if I was attacked but I would not try to fight whoever was following me unless I had to.

And I'll bet 90 out of a 100 would do the same as me if they were honest...and that is exactly what they should do in that circumstance....he didn't and look what happened.

Butch

Why did you assume Martin attacked or, initiated an attack.


The GF said Martin yelled "get off , get off".


Which tells me George initiated the conflict........started the fight.


That he ended up on the bottom during a prolonged struggle doesn`t mean Martin was the aggressor.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 555
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:18:34 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm old... I would walk to the light... no way would I confront someone in that situation...I would be ready to defend myself if I was attacked but I would not try to fight whoever was following me unless I had to.

And I'll bet 90 out of a 100 would do the same as me if they were honest...and that is exactly what they should do in that circumstance....he didn't and look what happened.

Butch

Why did you assume Martin attacked or, initiated an attack.


The GF said Martin yelled "get off , get off".


Which tells me George initiated the conflict........started the fight.


That he ended up on the bottom during a prolonged struggle doesn`t mean Martin was the aggressor.


The evidence so far is that Zimmerman says Martin did. The witness who said that Martin was getting punched conceded that she had no way of knowing who was punching whom, so her testimony is irrelevant.

The evidence against Zimmerman is weak and won't suffice to prove guilt.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:24:58 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

ummmm since he is neighborhood watch, watching kinda IS his business


I doubt there is a formal neighborhood watch anywhere in my little home town. We're all on watch. And I report anything I see, and approach anyone who doesn't seem to belong.
Even the feds say we are all on neighborhood watch... "If you see something, say something"

(If they attack you and put you in fear of your life, shoot them)

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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Profile   Post #: 557
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:26:21 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
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Status: offline
quote:

It looks almost like the prosecution originally thought this would be a waste of time.


They did.
And they were right.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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Profile   Post #: 558
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:35:55 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

he now has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he meets the statute exception, for an aggressor.


Only on the mind of a very few people did GZ do anything that characterizes him as the initiator of violence.
TM was the aggressor. The thug wanna be saw a chance to beat up a fat guy... and lost, badly.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 559
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:38:05 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Um, Zimmerman carried his weapons almost at all times, even while just walking his dog. It's not illegal to do so and I know many many gun enthusiasts who would say it is not reckless either. Oi.


One thing this case illustrates is the danger of doing that. If Zimmerman wasn't armed, Martin would be alive and there would be no murder trial in progress. Zimmerman would be living a normal life.

(in reply to LeesaLove)
Profile   Post #: 560
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