Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE Page: <<   < prev  27 28 [29] 30 31   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:40:20 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle,


Well, for starters, they were not in a dwelling, or a residence, or a vehicle

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 561
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:43:22 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		No reasonable person can believe Zimmerman provoked force against himself.
There is not a suggestion, much less evidence, that anything he did merited the use of violence against himself.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 562
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:46:06 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

(he will or not testify do you think?)


I think not.
I even think it could be a directed verdict at the conclusion of the prosecution's "case".

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 563
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 9:55:24 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Great link. I especially like this from Stinson v. State:

That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook.

The following from Dorsey v. State should go a long way toward eliminating the wishful drivel of a second-degree murder charge:

Florida courts have held that an impulsive overreaction to an attack or injury is itself insufficient to prove ill will, hatred, spite, or evil intent.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 564
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:06:24 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I believe he did want to kill this boy...


Why?
Racism? After taking on the town PD on behalf of a black homeless stranger?
A violent streak?
After years of carrying a gun, of being on neighborhood watch, he just suddenly decided he wanted to kill someone, and Trayvon was handy?
Or did he suddenly decide he "wanted to kill" this "boy"? Out of all the people on earth, some malicious desire welled up in him, a desire to kill this person? He didn't like his grill? He hates people who eat Skittles?

quote:

I believe he did want to kill this boy...


Please. I'm genuinely baffled as to why you believe that. As to why anyone could believe he had a desire to just up and kill this stranger.
I don't have those desires, and I certainly am unaware of knowing people who have, much less succumb to, a sudden "want to kill".

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 565
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:16:54 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I think he panicked and just wanted Martin to back off.


That's called self-defense.
Fl statute clearly says the threat of death need not be real.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to LeesaLove)
Profile   Post #: 566
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:25:04 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Note that in not insane states those trivial injuries from a fist fight would not be enough to justify a claim of reasonable fear of imminent death or grievous bodily harm which is the standard for lethal self defense.


The standard usually involves some variant of "what would a reasonable man do in those same circumstances". We here in WV often find that reasonable people shoot those who attack them. I think a WV jury would find for a defendant who shot his attacker if he was being "grounded and pounded" and the attacker went for his victim's gun.

I don't even think we'd be out long.

"Don't throw the first punch" is pretty good advice up here

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 567
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:26:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Uh, Actually no, if my intent was detain you until LEOS arrived, there is no crime.

Unless I had committed a crime it would certainly be kidnapping or unlawful imprisonment.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 568
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:30:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

I think he panicked and just wanted Martin to back off.


That's called self-defense.
Fl statute clearly says the threat of death need not be real.

No, but it does have to meet the reasonable man standard. Panicking and shooting fails the reasonable man standard.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 569
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:31:22 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

No reasonable person can believe Zimmerman provoked force against himself.
There is not a suggestion, much less evidence, that anything he did merited the use of violence against himself.


Wrong approach. You're trying to hypothesize scenarios, with very thin evidence.

The burden is on the prosecution to prove that Zimmerman was NOT acting in self defense. It's almost impossible at this point. The star witness has proven to provide nothing to go on, the other witnesses show a muddle, and Zimmerman's testimony has stood thus far.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 570
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:31:40 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The lead prosecutor will likely lose his job after this case


Her. At least I think it's still Angela Corey.
I think she was pretty much ordered to prosecute this regardless of the weakness of the case, so I suspect the effect on her career will be minimal. Silk purse, sow's ear and all that.
Of course, a prosecutor with ethics would have refused to prosecute this even under threat of termination.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to LeesaLove)
Profile   Post #: 571
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:36:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Note that in not insane states those trivial injuries from a fist fight would not be enough to justify a claim of reasonable fear of imminent death or grievous bodily harm which is the standard for lethal self defense.


The standard usually involves some variant of "what would a reasonable man do in those same circumstances". We here in WV often find that reasonable people shoot those who attack them. I think a WV jury would find for a defendant who shot his attacker if he was being "grounded and pounded" and the attacker went for his victim's gun.

I don't even think we'd be out long.

"Don't throw the first punch" is pretty good advice up here

Keep in mind that a judge has to allow you to bring an affirmative defense so if you simply shot some guy who punched you, you could very well be denied the ability to claim self defense or even mention that you were struck etc.

Also if there is a struggle over a weapon then the shooting isn't self defense. You defense then would be to establish that you did not have full control of the weapon when the shot was fired. You could get off completely or wind up convicted of something like negligent homicide but without the state of mind for murder or the intent you should be able to avoid a murder conviction.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 572
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:37:19 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

No reasonable person can believe Zimmerman provoked force against himself.
There is not a suggestion, much less evidence, that anything he did merited the use of violence against himself.


Wrong approach. You're trying to hypothesize scenarios, with very thin evidence.

The burden is on the prosecution to prove that Zimmerman was NOT acting in self defense. It's almost impossible at this point. The star witness has proven to provide nothing to go on, the other witnesses show a muddle, and Zimmerman's testimony has stood thus far.

When did Zimmerman testify?

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 573
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:37:37 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I'd be saying Zimmerman shouldn't have been straddling the man trying to fracture his skull against the cement.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 574
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:46:09 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The duty to retreat is not removed because you got bumped in the knees.


There is no such duty at either the Florida or federal level (if there was such a federal requirement, and it was Constitutional, all SYG laws would be trumped immediately).

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 575
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:48:01 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Under the struggle for the gun argument he can't argue self defense


That's the definition of a desperate self-defense situation

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 576
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:53:40 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The difference is that when I confront the person following me, he is going to be looking down the barrel of a 1911 .45ACP,


That would break several important WV statutes, starting with "wanton endangerment".

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 577
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 10:55:58 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

The difference is that when I confront the person following me, he is going to be looking down the barrel of a 1911 .45ACP,


That would break several important WV statutes, starting with "wanton endangerment".



Works in Texas, and many western states for that matter, as long as the intent is to hold the person till local law enforcement arrives.


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 578
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 11:02:30 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I've been in similar situations.
My move is to give them the opportunity to pass me while I keep an eye on them. Suddenly walk in front of a car, perhaps. turn around so I am now facing them while I put my shoe on the car bumper to tie it. Duck into a store entrance to look at something in the entrance, then turn around quickly. Something, anything, that can be construed as innocent by an innocent man, and understood as defensive by someone with evil on his mind.
All actions to be undertaken after reaching under my clothing or in my pocket as though to check my gun.
Of course, if I was 17 and fit and the man following me a fat pasty fuck I would just outwalk/outrun him unless I wanted to double back and attack.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 579
RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE - 6/29/2013 11:04:30 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Actually no, if my intent was detain you until LEOS arrived, there is no crime.


Are you serious? In what state?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 580
Page:   <<   < prev  27 28 [29] 30 31   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Zimmerman Trial - LIVE Page: <<   < prev  27 28 [29] 30 31   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109