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RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 8:09:22 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
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The meaning of "persecution" has lodged in my head; occupational hazard for a wordsmith. So as a thought exercise, I did some Google Image searching for "persecution" and related themes. Here's a sampling of what came up.

Persecution Perspectives



Nazi Death Camp: "Work Will Make You Free"



Christians burned out of their home by militant Hindus



Witchcraft trial at Salem



Lynching of African Americans



And then there's the heart-breaker of them all.





_____________________________

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 8:27:03 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		seing as the dawg hasnt been back to include the "possibility" he meant persecution, its moot.
And I agree with DC, that to use persecution is hypocritical over reach of the word

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RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 8:54:09 PM   
BitYakin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

seing as the dawg hasnt been back to include the "possibility" he meant persecution, its moot.
And I agree with DC, that to use persecution is hypocritical over reach of the word



well I don't remember seeing where anyone said it was the WORST case of persecution ever, or even in the top 10, but that doesn't change the FACT that it is what it is!


when you single out a group and make them do something you do not make all others do it is in fact persecution, anddd discrimination, which BTW is illegal


sooo by your STANDARDS of persecution, making blacks ride in the back of the bus would be a "hypocritical over reach of the word" because no one was blown up and/or killed?

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RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 9:03:18 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

by your STANDARDS of persecution, making blacks ride in the back of the bus would be a "hypocritical over reach of the word" because no one was blown up and/or killed?

We live in a day and age when dictionaries are considered old-fashioned and a hindrance to communication. A word means whatever someone's emotions tell them it means. It won't surprise me if dictionaries are called "racist" one of these days, and dismissed as a tool of eeeevil white people trying to control speech.

K.

(in reply to BitYakin)
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RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 9:38:44 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

seing as the dawg hasnt been back to include the "possibility" he meant persecution, its moot.
And I agree with DC, that to use persecution is hypocritical over reach of the word



well I don't remember seeing where anyone said it was the WORST case of persecution ever, or even in the top 10, but that doesn't change the FACT that it is what it is!


when you single out a group and make them do something you do not make all others do it is in fact persecution, anddd discrimination, which BTW is illegal


sooo by your STANDARDS of persecution, making blacks ride in the back of the bus would be a "hypocritical over reach of the word" because no one was blown up and/or killed?


dont strawman me, I never meant worst, neither did I say it, I also didnt mention my standards of persecution, there was no discrimination, there was no persecution

Im only responsible for what I say, NOT what you think I said, or want me to say to fit your strawmaking bs
PS PROSECUTION is what he said, PROSECUTION is what he meant, no matter how he claims otherwise, and that was without fact either.
Your tender emotional angst is without basis.



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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 9:43:38 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

292 conservative groups.
6 progressive ones.

Yeah. There was no selective prosecution.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456#.UcxF0ZDCznc.twitter

There was no selective prosecution because there was no prosecution!


Please learn english before you criticize others.

Prosecute: : to follow to the end : pursue until finished <prosecute a war>
2: to engage in : perform
3a : to bring legal action against for redress or punishment of a crime or violation of law
b : to institute legal proceedings with reference to <prosecute a claim>
intransitive verb
: to institute and carry on a legal suit or prosecution
— pros·e·cut·able adjective

Note that the idea of legal action is only the *third* definition. The first definition is following to the end.

Prosecution: The act or process of prosecuting.

So, it is perfecting usual english usage to say "The prosecution of the war was admirable".
Or "The complicated dance steps were prosecuted flawlessly."
Or "The prosecution of the game plan was perfect."

No doubt you will continue the discussion because you can't admit you are wrong DomKen, though you so often are.

In this particular case, out of 30 liberal groups only 6 were subject to review. Out of 292 conservative groups all 292 were subjected to comprehensive review.
So "selective prosecution" means the act of selectively following or engaging to the end. In this case, to IRS review.

Prosecution I said; Prosecution I meant - and I'll accept you admitting you were wrong lucylastic as well. Feel free to graciously apologize, since you mocked me so freely earlier.


< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 6/27/2013 9:56:30 PM >

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RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 9:55:22 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Look the IRS stole the election from Romney. I read it on one of the pages linked to infowars, so it has to be true.

Actually the IRS investigated more than six progressive groups, but who cares? Personally, I think the IRS needs to invistigate every political action group on either side and find out where all the money is coming from.

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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/27/2013 10:21:48 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		An Internal Revenue Service manager who described himself as a "conservative Republican" told congressional investigators that no one in the agency's Cincinnati office was trying to target tea party organizations for political reasons, according to an interview transcript released Tuesday.

The manager, John Shafer, said he and an employee in his screening unit decided to pull applications for tax-exempt status filed by political groups and send them to managers in Washington. He said they were aware of the controversy over the groups and wanted to ensure they were treated uniformly.


http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/18/nation/la-na-irs-scandal-20130619



The difference really, is the reactions of the two sides.....the cons scream and cry while liberal groups keep it classy.


Conservatives, especially the lunatic section the gop, lives off of being "the poor victim" (even though every example`s the exact opposite) and are kicking and screaming more than ever, to keep the claim alive.....


Though they really aren`t victims, that they think they are has all been worth it.


When I talk with people(in real life) who`re upset about this, I mention ACORN , an actual example of a real political persecution, an example of a group targeted, for their politics and then I give them a honesty/hypocrisy/shame test.


Most fail.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 1:23:40 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

An Internal Revenue Service manager who described himself as a "conservative Republican" told congressional investigators that no one in the agency's Cincinnati office was trying to target tea party organizations for political reasons,


And yet they succeeded.


Frankly, this is easily disprovable balderdash. Lois Lerner testified that she sent a memo to the Cincinatti office telling them they could not discriminate by using the keyword "tea party, constitituion etc." The policy stopped for several months and then resumed.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 1:33:12 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		yawn.....



What will the next fake scandal be?



I hear Darrel going back to hump Benghazi some more.....



May the 12th time`ll be the trick?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 2:35:56 AM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

Sending an organization a letter asking for more information is persecution? Is that really your position?


I guess you missed the article where the irs sent one pro life org, a letter telling them if they promised in writing to not picket and/or protest at planned parenthood they'd grant them thier tax exempt status

where I come from thats called extortion at least and blackmail at worst, but I also think it falls under the heading of persecution!

and BTW when you select one group to send letters asking for more info and not ALL OTHER groups asking for the same info, yeahhh that ALSO falls under the heading of persecution!

That was a group applying for 501(c)3 status and that requires that the organization do these and only these things
quote:

The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.

Political protesting is not allowed.

Anyway the supposed scandal is about scrutiny of 501(c)4 applications.


even though many have politicized the pro life/choice issue, I am SURE many who are involved on both sides of the issue would say they are "defending human and civil rights" of unborn and female citizens, sooo I think that means they qualify

and I read nothing in there that says thier constitutional rights to peacably assemble or free speech were suspended by asking for and/or being granted that status

They don't lose those rights but if they exercise them in a political way, or indeed in an illegal way (FACE act), they lose their exemption from paying taxes.

(in reply to BitYakin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 2:40:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

292 conservative groups.
6 progressive ones.

Yeah. There was no selective prosecution.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/treasury-irs-targeted-292-tea-party-groups-just-6-progressive-groups/article/2532456#.UcxF0ZDCznc.twitter

There was no selective prosecution because there was no prosecution!


Please learn english before you criticize others.

Prosecute: : to follow to the end : pursue until finished <prosecute a war>
2: to engage in : perform
3a : to bring legal action against for redress or punishment of a crime or violation of law
b : to institute legal proceedings with reference to <prosecute a claim>
intransitive verb
: to institute and carry on a legal suit or prosecution
— pros·e·cut·able adjective

Note that the idea of legal action is only the *third* definition. The first definition is following to the end.

Prosecution: The act or process of prosecuting.

So, it is perfecting usual english usage to say "The prosecution of the war was admirable".
Or "The complicated dance steps were prosecuted flawlessly."
Or "The prosecution of the game plan was perfect."

No doubt you will continue the discussion because you can't admit you are wrong DomKen, though you so often are.

In this particular case, out of 30 liberal groups only 6 were subject to review. Out of 292 conservative groups all 292 were subjected to comprehensive review.
So "selective prosecution" means the act of selectively following or engaging to the end. In this case, to IRS review.

Prosecution I said; Prosecution I meant - and I'll accept you admitting you were wrong lucylastic as well. Feel free to graciously apologize, since you mocked me so freely earlier.


That is so pathetic it's almost funny.

So your claim is there was selective "pursuit until finished"? Did you really think anyone with a brain would believe that nonsense. You should have gone with the guys claiming you meant persecution that at least had a tiny tiny glimmer of reasonableness.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 3:08:16 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		As predicted. Thanks for proving me right again.

The fact that you have an inferior understanding of the english language is your problem.

You thought to prosecute meant criminal prosecution. Which isn't the preferred meaning. And as usual you were so arrogant that you didn't look up the meaning - and so quick to mock that you now have egg on your face.

The fact that *you* cannot fathom the meaning or use of a word - as evidenced by your last post - doesn't mean others can't. But look on the bright side. If you study real hard, maybe you too can learn what prosecute means.





< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 6/28/2013 3:11:56 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 6:11:44 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The fact that you have an inferior understanding of the english language is your problem.

Do you mean "English language"?


quote:

You thought to prosecute meant criminal prosecution. Which isn't the preferred meaning.

Your definitions appear to have come from Merriam-Webster. That makes it important to note that MW lists the senses of a word in historical order. The first definition is not necessarily preferred. Indeed, it may even be obsolete.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 6:13:04 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Prosecution I said; Prosecution I meant

To be honest, I'm having trouble believing this.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 6:24:51 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Anything with examiner in the title is pure asswipe. Not a credible citation. Extremely excellent chance that nothing in that article borders on reality.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 9:33:45 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
You thought to prosecute meant criminal prosecution. Which isn't the preferred meaning. And as usual you were so arrogant that you didn't look up the meaning - and so quick to mock that you now have egg on your face.

Hold on there. I was going to let this slide with just laughing at you. Now I'm going to have to deal with your ignorance and straw grasping.

Selective pursuit to the finish doesn't make sense.

Now actually going to the same dictionary you used for the actual word you used, prosecution not prosecute, what do we find
quote:


1 : the act or process of prosecuting; specifically : the institution and continuance of a criminal suit involving the process of pursuing formal charges against an offender to final judgment


2 : the party by whom criminal proceedings are instituted or conducted


3 obsolete : pursuit

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prosecution

So I was right. Either you have not just an inferior but obsolete command of the English language or you are flat out lying. So which is it?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 9:48:19 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Prosecution is valid in the context and meaning he used it in. It is in no wise a preferred meaning either. It means a (dogged) following (akin to what we use persecution for now), like Jean Valjean in Les Miserables in about 1530, it did not take on a legalistic nuance until about 1620.


A proscription (and a horse) apiece.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 9:59:48 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Prosecution is valid in the context and meaning he used it in. It is in no wise a preferred meaning either. It means a (dogged) following (akin to what we use persecution for now), like Jean Valjean in Les Miserables in about 1530, it did not take on a legalistic nuance until about 1620.


A proscription (and a horse) apiece.


Not according to any dictionary I could find. Prosecution means a court case. Prosecute has further meanings but he wrote prosecution.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: IRS - Selective Prosecution - 6/28/2013 10:03:57 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, most dictionaries nowadays suck.

prosecution (n.)
1560s, "action of pursuing," from Middle French prosecution (late 13c.) and directly from Late Latin prosecutionem (nominative prosecutio) "a following," noun of action from past participle stem of prosequi (see prosecute). Meaning "legal action" is from 1630s.

You would have to admit as well had he used prosecute in that sentence, he would have wreaked some hella euphonic damage as well as syntactical damage which we could never have possibly recovered from.

That is why I prefer this dictionary, if not an OED:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prosecution?s=t

And Nota Bene, I am not defending his words, only the use of A word.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/28/2013 10:06:20 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 40
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