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The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 9:28:39 PM   
GotSteel


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Status: offline 		When it comes to criticism of certain subjects such as Christianity those not wanting to hear the criticism have a tendency to come to absurdly ridiculous interpretations of what's being said.

If I take a fairly basic and straightforward claim from a Discovery Magazine article: "Humans Have Two Arms" is anybody here going to take the position that Discovery is claiming that amputees don't exist or that amputees don't count as human beings?

I mean it's really obvious what Discovery is actually saying right? Why is it so hard for some people to figure out when atheists do the same thing?
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 9:46:42 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I mean it's really obvious what Discovery is actually saying right? Why is it so hard for some people to figure out when atheists do the same thing?

Because if they listen to what we actually say or write they would have to confront their terror of the unknown and death.

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 10:06:29 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
If I take a fairly basic and straightforward claim from a Discovery Magazine article: "Humans Have Two Arms"

Do you have a reference for that article? I ask because I can hardly believe that this lay person magazine would print such a claim.

I suppose that you do not know what a black box model is?

Let me explain. In a black box model a scientist knows only the input and the output of a black box. What is going on inside the black box - how the input is changed into an output - he does not know. Such models do provide lots of scientifically interesting results.

Now consider religions to be black boxes. One of their outputs is the degree of ugliness of the individuals in their population.
I propose that it is best to belong to the black box population that has an output of the lowest degree of ugliness. I think that that is the Christian black box. But if you can suggest another black box as having an even better output, I thank you for that information.

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"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 10:24:54 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

Why is it so hard for some people to figure out when atheists do the same thing?


One reason might be because they don't want to understand. To use the cliche - you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 10:30:29 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

If I take a fairly basic and straightforward claim from a Discovery Magazine article: "Humans Have Two Arms" is anybody here going to take the position that Discovery is claiming that amputees don't exist or that amputees don't count as human beings?

I guess you weren't able to come up with an actual religion-related example of a "ridiculous interpretation" of something you said.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/4/2013 10:31:24 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 10:32:43 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because if they listen to what we actually say or write they would have to confront their terror of the unknown and death.

Ding! Ding! Ding! You've just won a free membership to Assumptions'r'Us!!

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/4/2013 10:50:55 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 10:53:17 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Ding! Ding! Ding! You've just won a free membership to Assumptions'r'Us!!

K.







Are employees eligible for that contest?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 11:06:10 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

When it comes to criticism of certain subjects such as Christianity those not wanting to hear the criticism have a tendency to come to absurdly ridiculous interpretations of what's being said.




I think the same could be said of adherents to any belief system, GotSteel. I get much the same sort of response when I say that atheism is ultimately just as much a faith-based religion as the most radical group of fundies you might round up from anywhere.

I also encounter it when I say that I'm a casual deist, and definitely not a Christian, and it is assumed that any references I make to a universal energy beyond our comprehension are just code words for the bearded guy on the golden throne of Sunday school mythology.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/4/2013 11:50:52 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I think the same could be said of adherents to any belief system, GotSteel. I get much the same sort of response when I say that atheism is ultimately just as much a faith-based religion as the most radical group of fundies you might round up from anywhere.

You've "misinterpreted" what he said in 3... 2... 1....

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/5/2013 12:14:52 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 1:42:48 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Look at K. he's got three arms.
And Tweak believes the world is heartshaped.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 1:50:42 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Look at K. he's got three arms... Tweak believes the world is heartshaped...

And MrBukani can't count.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/5/2013 2:04:51 AM >

(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 2:04:46 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Sure I can look
1+1=0.25
1+1=3
1+1=infinity
See?

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 3:04:34 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because if they listen to what we actually say or write they would have to confront their terror of the unknown and death.

Ding! Ding! Ding! You've just won a free membership to Assumptions'r'Us!!

K.

All right then mister "I defend Christianity with a passion but deny having any faith at all" why do you think other people hold religious beliefs in the face of the complete and utter lack of any supporting evidence? Try making a positive claim, no links you can deny agreeing with later, no snark just a straight statement of your opinion, I dare you.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 5:35:09 AM   
evesgrden


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quote:

All right then mister "I defend Christianity with a passion but deny having any faith at all" why do you think other people hold religious beliefs in the face of the complete and utter lack of any supporting evidence? Try making a positive claim, no links you can deny agreeing with later, no snark just a straight statement of your opinion, I dare you.


By definition, having faith means you don't have evidence.. you have faith that something is so. It's why faith can be tested. It's why god/allah/deity-of-choice "works in mysterious ways" is an adequate answer for those who believe.

But once someone believes in something because they "just know" "feel it in their heart" etc, the rational discussion ends. When someone is content to believe without science, there's no point in pursuing the discussion any further because you can't debate a subject in which the rules of debate are suspended by the defending party.

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What you permit, you promote.

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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 8:42:06 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I also encounter it when I say that I'm a casual deist, and definitely not a Christian, and it is assumed that any references I make to a universal energy beyond our comprehension are just code words for the bearded guy on the golden throne of Sunday school mythology.

That seems like a pretty dumb assumption, especially so since they could just ask you for clarification.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
When it comes to criticism of certain subjects such as Christianity those not wanting to hear the criticism have a tendency to come to absurdly ridiculous interpretations of what's being said.

I think the same could be said of adherents to any belief system, GotSteel. I get much the same sort of response when I say that atheism is ultimately just as much a faith-based religion as the most radical group of fundies you might round up from anywhere.


I'll bite, I'll contest that claim. Certainly atheism isn't actually a faith-based religion any more than theism is a faith-based religion, both are umbrella terms. If we're on the same page about that and you're claiming it's a common position among atheists, an atheist norm or some such, sort of like how some people will use theist to just refer to common christian and/or christian-like positions.

In that case I'll contest your claim for the same reason I'd contest the claim "humans have three arms". Certainly there are some humans with three arms but I don't consider that remotely common enough to reasonably make such a generalization. Did I miss anything?

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 7/5/2013 8:44:09 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 8:47:45 AM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

When it comes to criticism of certain subjects such as Christianity those not wanting to hear the criticism have a tendency to come to absurdly ridiculous interpretations of what's being said.

If I take a fairly basic and straightforward claim from a Discovery Magazine article: "Humans Have Two Arms" is anybody here going to take the position that Discovery is claiming that amputees don't exist or that amputees don't count as human beings?

I mean it's really obvious what Discovery is actually saying right? Why is it so hard for some people to figure out when atheists do the same thing?


Because they're too insecure to believe that people who are rational intelligent human beings can have a different belief from them. They feel that if someone doesn't agree with them, it must be because that person is either an idiot or evil.

(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 8:54:39 AM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I think the same could be said of adherents to any belief system, GotSteel. I get much the same sort of response when I say that atheism is ultimately just as much a faith-based religion as the most radical group of fundies you might round up from anywhere.


Hahaha! That's a great example of exactly what the OP was talking about. Christians say that kind of thing all the time.

Just in case you weren't making a joke, and actually meant this, people disagree with that because it's not true. Atheism "says" - insomuch as an idea with no organizing body can "say" anything - that there's no evidence for a deity, and we shouldn't believe in things just on faith. Most religious groups actually agree with atheists that there's no real evidence for a god, but feel that you should take a leap of faith and believe anyway because their gut says it's true.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 7/5/2013 8:55:30 AM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 9:09:47 AM   
Zonie63


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From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

When it comes to criticism of certain subjects such as Christianity those not wanting to hear the criticism have a tendency to come to absurdly ridiculous interpretations of what's being said.

If I take a fairly basic and straightforward claim from a Discovery Magazine article: "Humans Have Two Arms" is anybody here going to take the position that Discovery is claiming that amputees don't exist or that amputees don't count as human beings?

I mean it's really obvious what Discovery is actually saying right? Why is it so hard for some people to figure out when atheists do the same thing?


I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that atheists do the same thing as saying "Humans have two arms." What do atheists do which is comparable to that?

As an agnostic, I take a somewhat bifurcated view between the concrete and the abstract. That is, I view the actions, atrocities, and excesses of religion on the one side, while looking at their actual beliefs in a more purely abstract sense. I don't see one as having very much to do with the other, so I try to look at them separately.

As I see it, what they believe is not the problem, since, if religionists actually practiced the beliefs they claimed to uphold, there never would have been any of the atrocities and excesses for which religion has become infamous. But for the atrocities and excesses, opposing religion would become nothing more than a parlor game without any effect or meaning to society whatsoever.

If someone wants to believe that humans have three arms, it's no skin off me, so why should I care? Why should atheists care? That's what I wonder about.



(in reply to GotSteel)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 12:02:26 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

All right then mister "I defend Christianity with a passion but deny having any faith at all"...

Stop making shit up.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: The dumbest interpretation - 7/5/2013 12:05:40 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

All right then mister "I defend Christianity with a passion but deny having any faith at all"...

Stop making shit up.

K.

All right then mister "I defend Christianity with a passion but deny having any faith at all" why do you think other people hold religious beliefs in the face of the complete and utter lack of any supporting evidence? Try making a positive claim, no links you can deny agreeing with later, no snark just a straight statement of your opinion, I dare you.


(in reply to Kirata)
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