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RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 2:29:50 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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Here we go again...I'll try to be brief. After all, as I've repeatedly tried to tell you...it's about the fucking money.

Arkansas governor Bill Clinton, for example, who attended in 1991. “There, David Rockefeller told (him) why the North American Free Trade Agreement….was a Bilderberg priority and that the group needed him to support it. The next year, Clinton was elected president,” and on January 1, 1994 NAFTA took effect. Numerous other examples are similar, including who gets chosen for powerful government, military and other key positions.

(BTW, DC...corrupt...still has jobs, Phil., and other cities corrupt...still have jobs)

This is CAPITALISM people, so [they] don't give a FUCK about America, Michigan or Detroit...kapish ?

The Silverdome does NOT get built without corp. welfare...a handout to the capitalist profiteer.

*2-3 million direct auto industry jobs...gone. Off-shored.

*another 2-3 million jobs...gone, Unneeded without auto industry related demand.

*Still can afford (not really so borrowed) more corp. welfare for Ford field. You know how poor and deserving the Ford family is. Struggling BILLIONAIRES...needed that money. (owners of the Detroit Lions) goodbye Silverdome

*Ford motor co. ready to move back to Detroit (i.e., reopen a factory since closed having moved to Mexico) Oops, too late, can't afford...more corp. welfare. NO deal.

Michigan/Detroit...oops. no more slaves to tax to pay the corp. welfare. This is not, repeat, is not right, not left, not about corrupt govts. which have existed since the dawn of govt. This is about MONEY for the profiteer...the corp./capitalist There is your corruption, a corruption of society...deliberate and 'berry berry'...profitable.

Born and raised in Detroit, whole family from Detroit. Whole family saw this coming...a mile away and got out long, long ago.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 61

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 2:46:36 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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Michigan/Detroit...oops. no more slaves to tax to pay the corp. welfare. This is not, repeat, is not right, not left, not about corrupt govts. which have existed since the dawn of govt. This is about MONEY for the profiteer...the corp./capitalist There is your corruption, a corruption of society...deliberate and 'berry berry'...profitable.

Where was the profit in the Dome sale? Who profited?

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Post #: 62

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 2:59:44 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Michigan/Detroit...oops. no more slaves to tax to pay the corp. welfare. This is not, repeat, is not right, not left, not about corrupt govts. which have existed since the dawn of govt. This is about MONEY for the profiteer...the corp./capitalist There is your corruption, a corruption of society...deliberate and 'berry berry'...profitable.

Where was the profit in the Dome sale? Who profited?

Well the dome has long since served its purpose...sucked dry. It is a white elephant now, part of the unneeded remnants of the corp. welfare of yesteryear. So profit ? None, I am sure. One does not usually profit from selling their used car.

That welfare to the Fords served its purpose but after all, they are kinda spoiled (greedy) so [they] needed a brand new and more profitable playpen, didn't want to pay for it all...hence a new bigger check of corp. welfare to build Ford Field.

In 20 more years I am sure if we all here and I hope we are, we'll be talking about Fucked...er Ford Field up for sale...anybody care to bid with say 10% down for when that day surely comes ?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 63

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 6:15:48 PM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

they could know that cuz their hours have been cut cuz of Obamacare or that they are having a harder time finding a job or as some are finding out now, that their health care plan premiums are being doubled or tripled.. that could be why they have that "opinion".. I dont have a bone in this fight, btw, I wont be here and I take care of my own health care costs anyway..

Well, isn't that a whole lot of conjecture? The simple answer is that neither you nor the publishers of the poll bothered to ask why people thought the APA was negative for them. The notion that premiums are being doubled or tripled has been shown to be based upon a comparison to policy premiums that excluded high risk people and really had nothing to do with the implementation of the insurance exchanges. Soooo, rank propaganda. Bottom line then is a poll flawed with open ended questions was used to continue bashing this nation. Disengenuous to say the least. My complaint is not about your healthcare views but about the cheap slam against this nation.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 64

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 6:17:00 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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Wait a sec....I know this one....

Corruption?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 65

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 6:19:02 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

LOL.... short sweet and to the point... but is it true

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 66

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 7:24:53 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

they could know that cuz their hours have been cut cuz of Obamacare or that they are having a harder time finding a job or as some are finding out now, that their health care plan premiums are being doubled or tripled.. that could be why they have that "opinion".. I dont have a bone in this fight, btw, I wont be here and I take care of my own health care costs anyway..

Well, isn't that a whole lot of conjecture? The simple answer is that neither you nor the publishers of the poll bothered to ask why people thought the APA was negative for them. The notion that premiums are being doubled or tripled has been shown to be based upon a comparison to policy premiums that excluded high risk people and really had nothing to do with the implementation of the insurance exchanges. Soooo, rank propaganda. Bottom line then is a poll flawed with open ended questions was used to continue bashing this nation. Disengenuous to say the least. My complaint is not about your healthcare views but about the cheap slam against this nation.

lol nice try at putting words in my mouth.. It is not a slam against "this nation", its a slam against the US govt and a healthcare industry that costs twice or three times what other countries with national health care plans cost to the public, to those that pay premiums, to taxpayers.. I am slamming out-of-control greed and holding sick people hostage to that (whether its pre or post ACA).. and I am against the very convenient loopholes Obama/US govt has put in that allow businesses to "tweak" their operation to cheat employees of hours and medical plan choices.. I am all for people having a good healthcare plan, I just dont see how this convoluted scheme can become that.. it seems your view of what makes a healthcare plan "good" differs from mine.. and if the govt truly wanted a good healthcare plan & to give voters what the politicans promised, they would have taken the greed outta the ACA in the first place..

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Post #: 67

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 7:47:06 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

and I am against the very convenient loopholes Obama/US govt has put in that allow businesses to "tweak" their operation to cheat employees of hours and medical plan choices

So you prefer the administration to demand they employee people full time and to provide health care for everyone?

If I have misunderstood your position, please explain it to me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 68

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 9:06:41 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

7% thought it was struck down by the SC, 12% thought Congress Repealed it...

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/296907-poll-40-dont-know-obamacare-is-still-law

To assume that people are actually learning whats in it.... only those who want to know are finding out. The rest have their heads buried in the sand not giving a damn because they believe its gone.

that's just fuckin scary.

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Post #: 69

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 9:15:03 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

and I am against the very convenient loopholes Obama/US govt has put in that allow businesses to "tweak" their operation to cheat employees of hours and medical plan choices

So you prefer the administration to demand they employee people full time and to provide health care for everyone?

If I have misunderstood your position, please explain it to me.

The short answer is no.. let me try to explain..

Where i come from (BC) the health care premiums (if any) are paid by the person/family, not businesses (that varies by province since provinces decide how to set that up to fulfill the Federal mandate).. you have the same healthcare plan no matter how many hours you work or if you are unemployed or are a student or a child.. everyone has the same coverage (unless you buy private insurance for dental, meds, extras or are a senior or on assistance).. I sorta thought that was the idea behind a good basic national healthcare plan..

The rates in the province I was from (if you are on assistance you dont pay anything and you actually get extra coverage) If you are low income you pay less or perhaps nothing (until your income increases to a certain level)..
"monthly rates are $66.50 for one person, $120.50 for a family of two and $133.00 for a family of three or more."

So to me, reading how MA insurance costs (which I expect ACA will be similar to?).. is sorta shocking to me.. I have no idea if that is for 1 person or a family but it seems very high to me..
"insurance premiums in Massachusetts have increased from an average of $331 per month in 2006 to $401 per month in 2010."

As far as health care plans go, it does not benefit a business in my province to keep the number of employees under 50 or hours under 30.. cuz there are no loopholes for that & so no "penalties" to expand if the company wants to.. A business hires what his business needs, be it full-time or part-time employees or some combination.. I personally think that system is better for the business too... they can expand and hire more people if they want without having to figure out how much extra the healthcare costs will be and if expanding is worth it or not.. one of the articles posted by dcnovice about the health care plan in MA-

"George Montilio, who runs a 65-year-old family wholesale and retail bakery business in Brockton, is among the employers opting out.
"If we had to put health insurance into our company -- that would totally make us unprofitable," Montilio said. "It's almost seven percent of my gross."
With 70 employees - 30 full-time and 40 part-time - he calculates that complying with the mandate would cost him $300,000 per year in premiums. Instead, he chooses to pay the state's annual fines per employee, which for him amount to almost $20,000 a year."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57459563/massachusetts-health-care-plan-6-years-later/

< Message edited by tj444 -- 7/6/2013 9:29:27 PM >

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 70

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 9:57:37 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

So to me, reading how MA insurance costs (which I expect ACA will be similar to?).. is sorta shocking to me.. I have no idea if that is for 1 person or a family but it seems very high to me..
"insurance premiums in Massachusetts have increased from an average of $331 per month in 2006 to $401 per month in 2010."

Its similar, but the federal plan actually puts more onto the insured than the MA plan does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform#Commonwealth_Care_Health_Insurance_Program

The problem with the 331 and the 401 is that I cant tell if thats for private insurance, employer based insurance or what they are paying for the MA insurance.

quote:

As far as health care plans go, it does not benefit a business in my province to keep the number of employees under 50 or hours under 30.. cuz there are no loopholes for that & so no "penalties" to expand if the company wants to.. I personally think that system is better for the business too... they can expand and hire more people if they want without having to figure out how much extra the healthcare costs will be and if expanding is worth it or not.. one of the articles posted by dcnovice about the health care plan in MA-

When they didnt want universal care or single payer, something had to give... and the mandate was that give.

20,000 for 30 full time and 40 part time employees? I seriously doubt that.

I employ 55 employees who are all considered part time (less than 37 hours a week — most less than 30 hours a week). Is a part-time work force converted into full-time equivalents, or does having a work force exclusively part time avoid the issue all together? — JG, Pittsburgh

A.
Oh, good question. It is true that the amendment worked out between the House and Senate requires employers to convert their part-time employees into full-time equivalents for the purpose of figuring out whether they are subject to the penalty. (This is done each month by adding up the part-timers’ hours and dividing the aggregate by 120, which is equivalent to 30 hours a week.) But part-timers do not count for calculating the penalty itself. Practically speaking, then, only employers with at least 31 full-time workers will have to do this exercise, because the first 30 full-time workers are excluded from the penalty. In effect, this lowers the penalty threshold for firms with large part-time staffs from 50 to 31 full-time workers.

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/how-the-health-care-law-affects-your-business/

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/6/2013 10:16:27 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 71

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/6/2013 11:50:00 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

20,000 for 30 full time and 40 part time employees? I seriously doubt that.

That is MA & Romneycare so how it differs from Obamas plan, you figure it out!

Imo, its all very confusing, each state is different, heaven help ya if you move from one state to another..

I prefer things kept simple and easy.. you know KISS..

I dont know wtf it is but everything in the US requires 3 times the paperwork than is actually necessary and tons more time to figure the shite out and there are always gottchas thrown in for good measure to drive you completely crazy.. everything seems to be made deliberately as complicated as possible.. some stuff is easier and less paperwork in TX which is part of the reason I am in this state, but its got its own quirks too.. oh well,.. I will leave it to ya'll to figure ACA out.. I tried reading an article on how CA was gonna do their health care and my head hurt too much..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Post #: 72

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 12:03:04 AM

tazzygirl

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lol... the CA system really isnt that complicated.. and,, yes.. I have seen the reports saying the costs will increase... what they dont mention is that single person in their 20's who pay less before ACA doesnt mention the deductible ranging from 3500 to 6000 for that low cost policy... higher than the CA plans.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 73

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 12:20:13 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol... the CA system really isnt that complicated.. and,, yes.. I have seen the reports saying the costs will increase... what they dont mention is that single person in their 20's who pay less before ACA doesnt mention the deductible ranging from 3500 to 6000 for that low cost policy... higher than the CA plans.

There are no deductibles in BC for basic health care.. there is only one plan.. its affordable.. OMG. a $6k deductible???

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 74

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 12:41:42 AM

MrRodgers

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Nothing new here people. Most employers game the system to prevent having to contribute to any benefits. Why do you think congress, like pulling teeth, had to pass ERISA ?

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 75

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 4:33:45 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol... the CA system really isnt that complicated.. and,, yes.. I have seen the reports saying the costs will increase... what they dont mention is that single person in their 20's who pay less before ACA doesnt mention the deductible ranging from 3500 to 6000 for that low cost policy... higher than the CA plans.

There are no deductibles in BC for basic health care.. there is only one plan.. its affordable.. OMG. a $6k deductible???

I've seen plans with a 10k deductible. They call them catastrophic care plans. They get a lowish premium every month and only pay out if you are hospitalized for at least several days. I'm guessing these plans have quite the profit margin.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 76

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 5:33:57 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

That article is almost 2 years old,

Then, by all means, find something newer. Last look the stadium is still unusable. The soccer team expansion seems a long way off.

The date of the article is immaterial, really. Somehow, I'm thinking that at the time of the deal, they didn't have all the info available to us now...

quote:

If Pontiac schools can’t get a loan and a proposed lawsuit doesn’t halt a court-ordered tax levy of 3 mills, property owners in the City of Pontiac will pay $2.3 million of $7.8 million in unpaid teacher health insurance payments.
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/05/24/news/local_news/doc519f094bad8b9593202949.txt

I don't know how the Pontiac schools are funded, but the Toledo Public schools aren't funded by the City. Completely separate. You are assuming that if the $17M bid was accepted, then the Pontiac schools wouldn't have the same funding issues they are having now. You may be right, but you may also be quite wrong.

The $17M bidder failed to meet deadlines. That's why the auction was opened.

quote:

quote:

Has anyone noted that the OP was about the current crop of MI elected's (especially mentioning the Tea Party in the article quote) ignoring the "will of the people," yet, the big example that is being used came under Jennifer Granholm's tenure?

No, I dont think anyone has missed that. I do think you missed it being said that the article is heavily biased and that no one but you is even referencing the article at this point. The OP is about what is happening in Michigan without the bias spin of the OP. I thought we had more posters from that area, I guess I was wrong. If you have something about that area to contribute that would give me a clearer understanding, instead of assuming I, or someone else here, has an agenda, do bring that information up.
Pst... in other words.. I asked what was going on, I never made a claim about what was happening. Its called.. information... not partisan fingerpointing.

So, you want people to go with the flow of the thread, or stay on topic of the OP? Can't always have both, there, tazzy. The OP was about the Emergency Manager law being voted out, and then passed as a slightly different version, no?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 77

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 9:56:57 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

The $17M bidder failed to meet deadlines. That's why the auction was opened.

Less than 24 hours and he failed to meet the deadline? What kid of deadline is that? The fact that he took them to court afterwards....

quote:

Sorry, you can try and justify that any way you like, its never gonna fly in my book. This deal was botched massively, and the citizens paid for it.
So, you want people to go with the flow of the thread, or stay on topic of the OP? Can't always have both, there, tazzy. The OP was about the Emergency Manager law being voted out, and then passed as a slightly different version, no?

No,. read the OP again.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 78

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 1:47:36 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

The $17M bidder failed to meet deadlines. That's why the auction was opened.

Less than 24 hours and he failed to meet the deadline? What kid of deadline is that? The fact that he took them to court afterwards....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverdome#Sale

quote:

After the Lions departure, the city of Pontiac began to experience several years of serious financial problems. Due to the continued high maintenance costs of the structure, it made several unsuccessful attempts to sell the stadium.[26][27] In early 2008, United Assurance Company Ltd. made the highest purchase offer to date, with a bid of $18 million to convert the Silverdome into a Hollywood-style entertainment complex, following an earlier bid of $12 million by an attorney.[28] However, the city announced in October 2009 that the property would go to auction with no minimum bid, and that zoning regulations would be relaxed for any buyer in order to spark development. The city engaged the firm of Williams & Williams to conduct the auction in November 2009.[29]

Um, "early 2008" was the $18M bid and the auction was announced October 2009. I'm thinking that somewhere in there was where the deadline was set, and that the deadline passed 24 hours before the auction was announced. If the City of Pontiac really needed to sell the property, then yeah, it could decide that the auction would proceed 24 hours after the deadline passed. We don't know what the $18M bidders were doing, do we? Were they trying to whittle away at the price? Were they trying to get the City to pick up the tab for X, Y or Z? How was that the $18M bidder and the $12M bidder didn't beat a $583K bid at auction? My guess - and that's all it is because I don't know any better than you do - is that those bidders were trying to milk it as best they could and got beat. The lawsuit was nothing more than an attempt to save face and soothe the butthurt.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 79

RE: What is going on in Michigan? - 7/7/2013 1:54:28 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Post 27....

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/11/attorney_who_offered_20_millio.html

According to the Detroit News, the "injunction alleges the city breached a contract with Silver Stallion and engaged in racial discrimination against the minority-owned firm." Specifically, the lawsuit claims Mayor Clarence Phillips "openly expressed bias against" Silver Stallion.

DetNews, Nov. 18: In August 2008, Silver Stallion made a $100,000 deposit of earnest money in escrow under a purchase agreement with the city and hired an engineering firm to do an environmental assessment of the facility, according to court documents filed this week.
The closing was delayed after reviews found possible contamination, according to the lawsuit. In February meetings regarding the group's ability to fund the purchase, the city asked that Silver Stallion release the $100,000 in escrow to the city and dropped the purchase price to $17 million due to damage to a mini-dome and missing property.

The auction was announced the next day.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 80

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