quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Excellent posts, Art. Good to see you posting again, as well.
 
Excellent posts from a lot of folks, for that matter. I know much of Europe has equal or near equal wealth as the USA, but their growth is stagnant; I'd love to hear from all of you as to how you see that impacting the "welfare" states.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

No offense intended, but you are really and truly clueless about the state of the welfare system. The problem is not how much we give out, but how the money allotted is spent and (ironically) how low the income limits are set for benefits eligibility.

The Medicaid (and related "welfare" health care) system spend over five dollars for every dollar in benefits paid. Cash assistance welfare spends slightly over four dollars for every dollar in benefits paid.

Someone working full-time with minimum wage in most states is not eligible for cash assistance or Medicaid. They will be generally eligible for HEAP (relatively small grant to subsidize winter heating bills) and a minimal amount of food stamps. Slightly more money than that makes you ineligible for food stamps. HEAP assistance actually goes through a decent range of the working poor wage scale.

Your "going back to school" example is highly outdated. That program simply doesn't exist in most places any more. You are not eligible for public assistance in New York for example if the reason you're not working is because you're attending school. (Which seems a bit bass-ackwards to me.)

Also, you neglect that in every state there are work requirements for receiving public assistance unless you are disabled.

Finally, you also neglect that every state has a limit to the amount of cash assistance anyone can receive.

*meow*

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

Consider as impressive as those numbers sound that the wealthiest still pay a lessor share of taxes than their share of wealth.

Just an additional thought.

*meow*

Very true .

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ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

perverseangelic, I don't mean to ask a terribly personal question, but do you pay for state subsidized insurance or are you on a "Medicaid HMO" plan?

*meow*

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ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

I think you pointed out another problem very succinctly, that I did not. That is, that fraud is rampant within the system and counterfraud measures are grossly underfunded. Of course that might have something to do with inefficient spending and insane overstaffing.

What state is your sister in? In MOST states that have ended the school subsidy, so to speak, but not all. (Though even in the states where it is exists, it is highly restricted.)

I think with your friend receiving food stamps, you probably hit the nail on the head with him working under the table (or possibly lying about other income, though I can't say obviously not knowing him).

I don't think the inefficient spending is a reason to do away with the system per se. Hm, let me be more clear. It's a good reason to do away with the system, but not welfare itself, if that makes sense.

*meow*

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

To the poster that said that you should put your money in the bank:

If you put your money in a savings account and leave it there you will actually lose money.  The savings will be worth less and less over time.  This is because the rate of inflation is greater than the rate of interest, sometimes by a significant amount.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

By the by, I think Europe's problem lies in a conflation of protectionism, ill-thought general economic policies, poor central banking decisions, bad immigration policy and bad currency policy. To put it in a nutshell at least.

*meow*

quote:

Since 1996, 49 states, with the sole exception of Oklahoma, and the District of Columbia have passed legislation and/or taken administrative actions to allow postsecondary education to count as a work activity under TANF (Center for Women Policy Studies, 2002). Since 1996, 49 states, with the sole exception of Oklahoma, and the District of Columbia have passed legislation and/or taken administrative actions to allow postsecondary education to count as a work activity under TANF (Center for Women Policy Studies, 2002).

quote:

Nineteen states and the District of Columbia allow postsecondary education to count as work for longer than 24 months -- Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, North Carolina, South Carolina, Vermont, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Georgia is the only state that allows recipients to enroll in graduate programs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

To the poster that said that you should put your money in the bank:

If you put your money in a savings account and leave it there you will actually lose money.  The savings will be worth less and less over time.  This is because the rate of inflation is greater than the rate of interest, sometimes by a significant amount.

Not only that.... but if your dealing in fiat currency, like the dollar, it's depreciated {On purpose} between thirty-eight and forty-five percent in the last seven-year span of the Bush presidency. So you better have a hellva good hedge if you just wanna break even.


 - R

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

By the by, I think Europe's problem lies in a conflation of protectionism, ill-thought general economic policies, poor central banking decisions, bad immigration policy and bad currency policy. To put it in a nutshell at least.

*meow*

I'd generally agree with you on this. However, the USA protects its industry as well so that doesn't explain the difference in economic performance. Europe's immigration has many of the same problems as the US too. Though on general economic policies they are too often politically motivated in Europe, which I understand why, economics is being used as a tool for unification, it's misconceived but I understand the general motivation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom

NTYU,

I wrote them and asked from which citation they derived the information regarding cash assistance and education filling work requirements in New York State. I can tell you as a resident of New York State, that in no less than three counties that this is simply not true. In one county, they count student aid as income. In the other two I am aware of people's experiences in, school hours were rejected as work hours. Regulations or laws that aren't used, hardly can be said to have an impact.

I also asked them to clarfy this discrepency:

quote:

Since 1996, 49 states, with the sole exception of Oklahoma, and the District of Columbia have passed legislation and/or taken administrative actions to allow postsecondary education to count as a work activity under TANF (Center for Women Policy Studies, 2002). Since 1996, 49 states, with the sole exception of Oklahoma, and the District of Columbia have passed legislation and/or taken administrative actions to allow postsecondary education to count as a work activity under TANF (Center for Women Policy Studies, 2002).

quote:

Nineteen states and the District of Columbia allow postsecondary education to count as work for longer than 24 months -- Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, North Carolina, South Carolina, Vermont, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. Georgia is the only state that allows recipients to enroll in graduate programs.

And I also asked for the source citation of their claim about child care and transportation, as in at least New York State this is misleading, at best, since here you are required to fulfill work requirements to receive child care assistance. Also, transportation assistance in New York is almost practically nonexistant.

This source seems riddled with assertions contrary to realities on the ground. However, I'll withhold complete judgement until they get back to me about the relevent citations.

-weary