RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option

RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 6:32:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle The 'self-defense' for Martin is established the moment Zimmerman came close enough to be considered a physical threat. Start attacking anybody who gets close enough to be a threat and we'll be watching your trial on TV next. K. How close does a Police Officer permit an unidentified person to get before their own personal safety is a concern?

farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 6:33:52 AM)
Well, that's not in evidence, is it, so there's nothing for a jury to consider. quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 You forgot the 'shot from 8 feet away' and 'Zimmerman was screeching racist insults' bits this time. Why? quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Particularly since burden of proof is on the State. Witness testimony to George's multiple head injuries are in evidence. Witness testimony of George screaming for help while Trayvon was on top of him raining down blows is in evidence. If the state wants to argue otherwise, the burden is theirs. Witness George Zimmerman CHANGING HIS TESTIMONY about whether or not the screams are his. BEFORE reviewing the 911 tapes with the cops.... ZIMMERMAN CLAIMS that Martin had his mouth covered and COULD NOT SCREAM. But after hearing the tape, where Martin stops screaming IMMEDIATELY after Zimmerman shoots him Zimmerman's story changes. Now, is there any other actual EVIDENCE that Zimmerman was the one screaming? There's that dude who testified that he heard the screams bouncing off the far building. He also suggested that since Zimmerman had MMA training, and there was MMA fighting going on, that while they were grappling, Zimmerman was the one who 'ground and pounded' Marting. And of course, the lack of ZIMMERMAN DNA ON MARTIN does sort of go with the lack of REASONABLE FEAR of GBH or Death. But then REASONABLE people don't take speed, and then pack firearms, do they?

farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 6:35:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Particularly since burden of proof is on the State. Witness testimony to George's multiple head injuries are in evidence. Witness testimony of George screaming for help while Trayvon was on top of him raining down blows is in evidence. If the state wants to argue otherwise, the burden is theirs. Witness George Zimmerman CHANGING HIS TESTIMONY about whether or not the screams are his. BEFORE reviewing the 911 tapes with the cops.... ZIMMERMAN CLAIMS that Martin had his mouth covered and COULD NOT SCREAM. But after hearing the tape, where Martin stops screaming IMMEDIATELY after Zimmerman shoots him Zimmerman's story changes. This is such a misrepresentation of the evidence as to be an outright work of fiction. Please provide evidence which disproves Zimmerman changing his testimony -- exactly as I've stated. Osterman's book confirms. Initial report is that Martin prevented Zimmerman from screaming. Changes after review of 911 tape with police.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 6:35:50 AM)
And you are still utterly wrong, no matter which of the 2 words you used ('walk' or 'pursue') you select. There is nothing in any part of the legal system that reaches the threshold for self defense based only the 2 observable factors in Zimmerman's case... having brown skin, and following. Invisible guns don't count. No amount of sophistry is going to make it legal to physically attack minorities for no other reason than 'the N-word (Martin's choice of words) looked at me wrong/pursued me'. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam That's why I said "pursued". I'll take 2 syllable words for 100 Alex.[8\|]

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 6:38:26 AM)
You claimed that both of those 'facts' were entered into evidence. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, that's not in evidence, is it, so there's nothing for a jury to consider. quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 You forgot the 'shot from 8 feet away' and 'Zimmerman was screeching racist insults' bits this time. Why?

Kana -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 6:45:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi How did you know he was armed? Well let's say for argument sake that he did know. It's still bullshit. If the weapon is holstered, not drawn, not being brandished in a threatening manner, how does the mere fact that a person is armed give anyone the right to attack them and claim "self-defense"? K. It doesn't, in fact if anything it makes them suicidal. The 'self-defense' for Martin is established the moment Zimmerman came close enough to be considered a physical threat. Zimmerman never identified himself, nor was he wearing a badge or uniform, so there is no reason for Martin to believe that Zimmerman IS NOT a threat to his life. And given Zimmerman's provocation, by following Martin in his car. Parking where Martin would walk past, and staring at him. Getting out of his car and following... Any Jew or Black would think that the Aryan Brotherhood or Latin Kings are looking to make bones that night. And when Zimmerman got closer than any Police Officer would allow without positive control of the situation, then Trayvon Martin's right to self-defense began. Ahhhh, so anytime anyone walks close to you, you assault them? Wondering how that works in malls during Xmas. Man, your rap sheet must be miles long. Question-How come it seems as if it's being argued that one party had a right to walk wherever they wanted and the other does not? That doesn't seem right somehow. This is America right? I mean, unless it's private property or a locale with strictures placed upon it (Think a city with a curfew, for instance or a restraining order preventing someone from going within XYZ feet of a location), anyone can walk anywhere and has no, as in zero, need to explain there presence to anyone. Or am I missing something here?

Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 6:54:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Particularly since burden of proof is on the State. Witness testimony to George's multiple head injuries are in evidence. Witness testimony of George screaming for help while Trayvon was on top of him raining down blows is in evidence. If the state wants to argue otherwise, the burden is theirs. Witness George Zimmerman CHANGING HIS TESTIMONY about whether or not the screams are his. BEFORE reviewing the 911 tapes with the cops.... ZIMMERMAN CLAIMS that Martin had his mouth covered and COULD NOT SCREAM. But after hearing the tape, where Martin stops screaming IMMEDIATELY after Zimmerman shoots him Zimmerman's story changes. This is such a misrepresentation of the evidence as to be an outright work of fiction. Please provide evidence which disproves Zimmerman changing his testimony -- exactly as I've stated. Osterman's book confirms. Initial report is that Martin prevented Zimmerman from screaming. Changes after review of 911 tape with police. Initial report, Zimmerman said immediately after Police arrived "I was screaming for help and no one would help me.". George never denied that was him screaming as you claimed. Osterman said under oath he wrote the book from memory and no notes months after the shooting and admitted inaccuracies could exist due to his memory. When someone loses the ability to breath unexpectedly, it throws one's brain into an instant panic, so that even a second can seem like an eternity. (I have experienced this). There are multiple moments in the recording of the screams where George's mouth could have been covered. So again, you are still misrepresenting the evidence.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:18:49 AM)
That only applies when on patrol, which as you are well aware, Zimmerman was not that night. Notice that every time Zimmerman contacted the police in a NW capacity, he identified himself as such right away... he never said it that night, because he was simply a private citizen returning from the store. Nothing in the NW handbook prohibits anyone from legally having a gun in their house, in their car, or on their person when they are on their own time, and the PD liaison testified she made that clear in the orientation. I'll ask again, what is the purpose of bringing up these myths that were debunked months ago? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam http://www.usaonwatch.org/assets/publications/0_NW_Manual_1210.pdf From the neighborhood watch manual, page 25. REMEMBER: Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:25:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 And you are still utterly wrong, no matter which of the 2 words you used ('walk' or 'pursue') you select. There is nothing in any part of the legal system that reaches the threshold for self defense based only the 2 observable factors in Zimmerman's case... having brown skin, and following. Invisible guns don't count. No amount of sophistry is going to make it legal to physically attack minorities for no other reason than 'the N-word (Martin's choice of words) looked at me wrong/pursued me'. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam That's why I said "pursued". I'll take 2 syllable words for 100 Alex.[8\|] Who said it was invisible or that minority had anything to do with it? Lotta straw there. Here's the conversation. Officer "what happened here" Person. "Dude was following me and had a gun. I thought I was going to be mugged" Officer "Go home and we'll call you"

searching4mysir -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:26:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MinaBallerina If this is what this site is about am LEAVING IT I CAME HER FOE FETISHES NOT THIS BULLSHIT. Then why the fuck are you in a room called "Politics and Religion"?

Marc2b -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:27:50 AM)
A look at a map shows it is quite possible that Trayvon (black arrow) was simply trying to get away from Zimmerman (yellow arrow) and get home (green box). Have all the witnesses been accurate and honest in their testimonies? Well, like I said, I don't know anyone involved... so I am unable to form a judgment on the matter. What I do know is this: George Zimmerman saw a young black man walking down the street and apparently assumed that such an individual simply must be up to no good... and thereby set in motion the events that led to Trayvon's death. [image]local://upfiles/314707/867BDD0C6FD242A4A91A397A68E91D61.jpg[/image]

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:28:48 AM)
The laws of physics say that it was invisible. Trayvon Martin said the N word. Lot of denial there... why? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 And you are still utterly wrong, no matter which of the 2 words you used ('walk' or 'pursue') you select. There is nothing in any part of the legal system that reaches the threshold for self defense based only the 2 observable factors in Zimmerman's case... having brown skin, and following. Invisible guns don't count. No amount of sophistry is going to make it legal to physically attack minorities for no other reason than 'the N-word (Martin's choice of words) looked at me wrong/pursued me'. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam That's why I said "pursued". I'll take 2 syllable words for 100 Alex.[8\|] Who said it was invisible or that minority had anything to do with it? Lotta straw there. Here's the conversation. Officer "what happened here" Person. "Dude was following me and had a gun. I thought I was going to be mugged" Officer "Go home and we'll call you"

Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:31:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 That only applies when on patrol, quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam http://www.usaonwatch.org/assets/publications/0_NW_Manual_1210.pdf From the neighborhood watch manual, page 25. REMEMBER: Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities. Show where it says that. LEO's do NOT want citizens trying to do their job for them at any time other than to observe and report. That's not just neighborhood watch. That's in general. Officers tend to not like vigilantes because it makes it harder to separate out the good from the bad.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:32:34 AM)
Martin's mother says that he was already on the doorstep of the home. Is she wrong?? If not, then how did he get from there to where the witnesses saw the fight? quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b A look at a map shows it is quite possible that Trayvon (black arrow) was simply trying to get away from Zimmerman (yellow arrow) and get home (green box). Have all the witnesses been accurate and honest in their testimonies? Well, like I said, I don't know anyone involved... so I am unable to form a judgment on the matter. What I do know is this: George Zimmerman saw a young black man walking down the street and apparently assumed that such an individual simply must be up to no good... and thereby set in motion the events that led to Trayvon's death. Did the assumption have anything to do with the behavior of the person whose tox screen came back positive for drugs?

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:34:54 AM)
You made the claim that the police officer committed perjury when she testified that it only applies on patrol, now back your bizzare assertions up with some proof. Prove that the NW prohibits residents from having legally owned guns at all times. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 That only applies when on patrol, quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam http://www.usaonwatch.org/assets/publications/0_NW_Manual_1210.pdf From the neighborhood watch manual, page 25. REMEMBER: Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities. Show where it says that. LEO's do NOT want citizens trying to do their job for them at any time other than to observe and report. That's not just neighborhood watch.

Raiikun -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:35:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b A look at a map shows it is quite possible that Trayvon (black arrow) was simply trying to get away from Zimmerman (yellow arrow) and get home (green box). Have all the witnesses been accurate and honest in their testimonies? Well, like I said, I don't know anyone involved... so I am unable to form a judgment on the matter. What I do know is this: George Zimmerman saw a young black man walking down the street and apparently assumed that such an individual simply must be up to no good... and thereby set in motion the events that led to Trayvon's death. [image]local://upfiles/314707/867BDD0C6FD242A4A91A397A68E91D61.jpg[/image] That map is inaccurate. George did not get out of the vehicle there, the yellow path is wrong, and the fight started where the sidewalk forms the T intersection.

farglebargle -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:42:30 AM)
If Zimmerman was so responsible, why was he carrying a gun while taking amphetamines?

Marc2b -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:44:43 AM)
Depending upon who's testimony? Like I said, none of us who weren't there can ever know for sure. Such is my point. The only thing that is certain is that Zimmerman is the one who set events in motion, apparently based upon nothing more than his own racial bigotry.

thompsonx -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:44:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Ladytisha I have every right to defend myself from harm. Self Defense By attacking someone who has not harmed you? How many innocent people have you attacked today? Are you saying that it is against the law to bitch slap someone who assaults you? no we are saying its against the law to bitch slap someone who has NOT attacked you Is an assault an attack? sure it is, who are you saying assulted and/or attacked whom? there is ZERO evidence that that Z attacked and/or assualted M There is a legal definition of assault. Google might be helpful. Post #138 posits that an assault is an attack. Responding to an assault with force is not illegal.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/9/2013 7:45:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b A look at a map shows it is quite possible that Trayvon (black arrow) was simply trying to get away from Zimmerman (yellow arrow) and get home (green box). Have all the witnesses been accurate and honest in their testimonies? Well, like I said, I don't know anyone involved... so I am unable to form a judgment on the matter. What I do know is this: George Zimmerman saw a young black man walking down the street and apparently assumed that such an individual simply must be up to no good... and thereby set in motion the events that led to Trayvon's death. [image]local://upfiles/314707/867BDD0C6FD242A4A91A397A68E91D61.jpg[/image] That map is inaccurate. George did not get out of the vehicle there, the yellow path is wrong, and the fight started where the sidewalk forms the T intersection. You keep saying that but you show no evidence that what you say isn't made up bullshit.

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