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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 8:50:43 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		http://news.yahoo.com/defense-trying-martin-texts-introduced-005223637.html

quote:

Zimmerman's attorneys called a forensics computer analyst to tell the judge presiding over the trial that text messages on Martin's cellphone showed he was trying to buy or sell a gun. The analyst, Richard Connor, read to the judge text messages he found on Martin's phone that describe Martin recounting a fight he had been in to a friend.

Jurors were out of the courtroom. The testimony was given to Judge Debra Nelson to help her decide whether to allow the defense to use them. She had ruled that information about Martin's interest in guns and fighting couldn't be used during opening statements. But she left open the possibility that they could be introduced later


Interesting. A victim's past behavior isn't always relevant... But the prosecution did seem to open the door for questions as to whether Martin had a specific set of fighting skills.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 401
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 9:14:33 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

There is no "too" here from what I see. How do you equate the two?


Its your insistence that George will be found innocent. That is what I was equating.


So you think because I think George is likely to be found innocent he must be just as guilty as OJ.

Sweet. That means that if I decided Nixon was guilty then Clinton really had sex? My head hurts.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 402
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 9:18:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		It should hurt... and we all know why.

I dont believe OJ was ever innocent. Nor do I believe George is completely innocent.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 9:23:47 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Interesting. A victim's past behavior isn't always relevant... But the prosecution did seem to open the door for questions as to whether Martin had a specific set of fighting skills.


That door has been open for the whole trial... they just have to find a way to convince the Judge to allow it...

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 404
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 9:47:52 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It should hurt... and we all know why.

I dont believe OJ was ever innocent. Nor do I believe George is completely innocent.




Yes. It hurts. I feel assaulted. Violated. But I know you are innocent.


_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 405
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 9:54:27 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		The judge denied it for the defense from a pretrial motion, so no, it wasn't open at all, until the point at which the prosecution raised it. The legal jargon for that is 'opened the door'. Do try to keep up, 'counselor'.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Interesting. A victim's past behavior isn't always relevant... But the prosecution did seem to open the door for questions as to whether Martin had a specific set of fighting skills.


That door has been open for the whole trial... they just have to find a way to convince the Judge to allow it...



< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 7/9/2013 9:55:11 PM >

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" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 406
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 9:56:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It should hurt... and we all know why.

I dont believe OJ was ever innocent. Nor do I believe George is completely innocent.




Yes. It hurts. I feel assaulted. Violated. But I know you are innocent.




Of course I am. Im tazzy... Im always innocent.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 407
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 9:57:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The judge denied it for the defense from a pretrial motion, so no, it wasn't open at all, until the point at which the prosecution raised it. The legal jargon for that is 'opened the door'. Do try to keep up, 'counselor'.


The Judge denied it in opening statements only.

From your own link....

Jurors were out of the courtroom. The testimony was given to Judge Debra Nelson to help her decide whether to allow the defense to use them. She had ruled that information about Martin's interest in guns and fighting couldn't be used during opening statements. But she left open the possibility that they could be introduced later.

I dont need to be a "counselor". I know how to read.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/9/2013 9:59:10 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 408
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 10:08:50 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Not reading the law.

Google and denial won't get you paid as a professional legal expert, anywhere but the internet.

I'll take the consensus of my colleagues and ignore your assertions when they conflict with reality...
M'kay?


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

The judge denied it for the defense from a pretrial motion, so no, it wasn't open at all, until the point at which the prosecution raised it. The legal jargon for that is 'opened the door'. Do try to keep up, 'counselor'.


The Judge denied it in opening statements only.

From your own link....

Jurors were out of the courtroom. The testimony was given to Judge Debra Nelson to help her decide whether to allow the defense to use them. She had ruled that information about Martin's interest in guns and fighting couldn't be used during opening statements. But she left open the possibility that they could be introduced later.

I dont need to be a "counselor". I know how to read.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 409
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 10:12:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Not reading the law.

Google and denial won't get you paid as a professional legal expert, anywhere but the internet.

I'll take the consensus of my colleagues and ignore your assertions when they conflict with reality...
M'kay?


The reality is the link YOU brought into the conversation. Dont get pissy when its used against you. The Judge never "closed the door" on the evidence, she simply said.. not in opening statements. Beyond that, the "door" was still open... they just have to find the door.

Pick better sources that agree with your position next time.

M'kay?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 410
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 11:23:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Depending upon who's testimony?

Like I said, none of us who weren't there can ever know for sure.

Such is my point.

The only thing that is certain is that Zimmerman is the one who set events in motion, apparently based upon nothing more than his own racial bigotry.

The only one who displayed racial bigotry was Martin.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 411
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 11:32:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

How does any of this stuff change the essential facts:

1) That Zimmerman provoked martin by following him (or some other way), losing his right to self defense

2a) That he didn't exhaust every effort to escape. or
2b) That his life wasn't reasonably in danger.



1 Walking up to him and calling him the n word would not negate his right of self defense, let alone this
2a He didn't get a chance to escape
2b Bang your head off what you believe to be cement and see how threatened you feel.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 412
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/9/2013 11:37:17 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The only thing that is certain is that Zimmerman is the one who set events in motion, apparently based upon nothing more than his own racial bigotry.

You're just making shit up. Zimmerman has black family members and good relationships with his black neighbors. In one case in particular, he went out of his way to help get justice for a black guy who was assaulted by a white cop.

As for setting "events in motion," when Zimmerman made clear his intent by asking Martin what he was doing there, Martin could have replied along the lines of, "I live here. What's your excuse?" instead of going gangsta on him.

That was what set the "events in motion" that lead to Martin's death. Otherwise, you might as well blame Zimmerman's mother for ever getting pregnant with George in the first place, and nail the source of the problem on Adam and Eve.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/10/2013 12:35:13 AM >

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 413
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/10/2013 1:05:59 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

How does any of this stuff change the essential facts:

1) That Zimmerman provoked martin by following him (or some other way), losing his right to self defense

2a) That he didn't exhaust every effort to escape. or
2b) That his life wasn't reasonably in danger.



1 Walking up to him and calling him the n word would not negate his right of self defense, let alone this
2a He didn't get a chance to escape
2b Bang your head off what you believe to be cement and see how threatened you feel.



1. "Are you following him?" "Yes" "We don't need you to do that" "OK"

That doesn't NEGATE his self defense PRIVILEGE, but of course, it raises the bar.

2a. Yes he did. Remember, the argument they had. Zimmerman could have easily communicated that he was trying to leave ( he didn't ) or try to run away ( he didn't ). There were a few minutes of words being exchanged.

2b. EVERYONE agrees that the injuries were trivial. Of course there's the "HYPOTHETICAL" case, but as we've seen -- Zimmerman's judgement doesn't meat the REASONABLE standard. Was it the drugs Zimmerman takes? Who cares? Zimmerman didn't do what any reasonable person would have.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/10/2013 1:07:32 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 414
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/10/2013 1:11:20 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Zimmerman's judgement doesn't meat the REASONABLE standard.

Not many meats do these days, plus prices have gone up.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 415
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/10/2013 1:16:48 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		1. "Are you following him?" "Yes" "We don't need you to do that" "OK"

That doesn't NEGATE his self defense PRIVILEGE, but of course, it raises the bar.

2a. Yes he did. Remember, the argument they had. Zimmerman could have easily communicated that he was trying to leave ( he didn't ) or try to run away ( he didn't ). There were a few minutes of words being exchanged.

2b. EVERYONE agrees that the injuries were trivial. Of course there's the "HYPOTHETICAL" case, but as we've seen -- Zimmerman's judgement doesn't meat the REASONABLE standard. Was it the drugs Zimmerman takes? Who cares? Zimmerman didn't do what any reasonable person would have.

1 glad to see you admit this is bs, and self defense is a right, not a privilege
2a why are you following me what are you doing here smack no chance to run most likely didn't know a fight was coming.

2b why can't you comprehend that the injuries already sustained are irrelevant?
Again if you believe that your head has been bounced off the cement how many times makes it reasonable? When your brains fall out it is too late.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/10/2013 1:24:28 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 416
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/10/2013 1:27:54 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		RIGHTS aren't taken away by Law. They come from Our Creator ( MY MOMMY in my case... )

"Self Defense" is a qualified immunity, therefore it is a privilege. Don't argue with me, take it up with the publishers of legal dictionaries.

And the Defense just pissed off the Judge for the final time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaLKQvTOXtc

If they're working on their appeal grounds this hard at this point, they know it's all over but the deliberation and verdict.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 417
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/10/2013 1:59:01 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

RIGHTS aren't taken away by Law. They come from Our Creator ( MY MOMMY in my case... )

"Self Defense" is a qualified immunity, therefore it is a privilege. Don't argue with me, take it up with the publishers of legal dictionaries.

And the Defense just pissed off the Judge for the final time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaLKQvTOXtc

If they're working on their appeal grounds this hard at this point, they know it's all over but the deliberation and verdict.



Which, assuming a sane jury, will be not guilty.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 418
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/10/2013 2:02:05 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 419
RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter... - 7/10/2013 2:15:06 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

a why are you following me what are you doing here smack no chance to run most likely didn't know a fight was coming.


That is not supported by the TRIAL TESTIMONY where the resident reports hearing a multi-part verbal exchange. Which is confirmed by other witnesses.

The only person claiming that he was attacked in the way you suggest is Zimmerman himself, and without any credibility, there's no reason to believe his account, is there?

So the prosecution has established -- via testimony from multiple, unrelated witnesses -- that Zimmerman is lying about being attacked with no opportunity to signal his intent to disengage, or tried to retreat. And right there, Zimmerman lost Self-Defense.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 420
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