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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

RIGHTS aren't taken away by Law. They come from Our Creator ( MY MOMMY in my case... )

"Self Defense" is a qualified immunity, therefore it is a privilege. Don't argue with me, take it up with the publishers of legal dictionaries.

And the Defense just pissed off the Judge for the final time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaLKQvTOXtc

If they're working on their appeal grounds this hard at this point, they know it's all over but the deliberation and verdict.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

RIGHTS aren't taken away by Law. They come from Our Creator ( MY MOMMY in my case... )

"Self Defense" is a qualified immunity, therefore it is a privilege. Don't argue with me, take it up with the publishers of legal dictionaries.

And the Defense just pissed off the Judge for the final time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaLKQvTOXtc

If they're working on their appeal grounds this hard at this point, they know it's all over but the deliberation and verdict.

You have a right to self defense, the fact that it is claimed when isn't does not negate the right.
That is like saying the right of free speech is a privilege because you can't yell fire in a crowded theater.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess you missed the whole "Following someone around at night without identifying yourself or providing any legal reason to be following them" being provocative -- especially given the historical prevalence of abducting, torturing, and lynching black kids in the south.

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You're just making shit up. Zimmerman has black family members and good relationships with his black neighbors. In one case in particular, he went out of his way to help get justice for a black guy who was assaulted by a white cop.

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As for setting "events in motion," when Zimmerman made clear his intent by asking Martin what he was doing there, Martin could have replied along the lines of, "I live here. What's your excuse?" instead of going gangsta on him.

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That was what set the "events in motion" that lead to Martin's death. Otherwise, you might as well blame Zimmerman's mother for ever getting pregnant with George in the first place, and nail the source of the problem on Adam and Eve.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

How does any of this stuff change the essential facts:

1) That Zimmerman provoked martin by following him (or some other way), losing his right to self defense

2a) That he didn't exhaust every effort to escape. or
2b) That his life wasn't reasonably in danger.

1 Walking up to him and calling him the n word would not negate his right of self defense, let alone this
2a He didn't get a chance to escape
2b Bang your head off what you believe to be cement and see how threatened you feel.

1. "Are you following him?" "Yes" "We don't need you to do that" "OK"

That doesn't NEGATE his self defense PRIVILEGE, but of course, it raises the bar.

2a. Yes he did. Remember, the argument they had. Zimmerman could have easily communicated that he was trying to leave ( he didn't ) or try to run away ( he didn't ). There were a few minutes of words being exchanged.

2b. EVERYONE agrees that the injuries were trivial. Of course there's the "HYPOTHETICAL" case, but as we've seen -- Zimmerman's judgement doesn't meat the REASONABLE standard. Was it the drugs Zimmerman takes? Who cares? Zimmerman didn't do what any reasonable person would have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess you missed the whole "Following someone around at night without identifying yourself or providing any legal reason to be following them" being provocative -- especially given the historical prevalence of abducting, torturing, and lynching black kids in the south.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess you missed the whole "Following someone around at night without identifying yourself or providing any legal reason to be following them" being provocative -- especially given the historical prevalence of abducting, torturing, and lynching black kids in the south.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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You're just making shit up. Zimmerman has black family members and good relationships with his black neighbors. In one case in particular, he went out of his way to help get justice for a black guy who was assaulted by a white cop.

My family is also multiracial. I have black relatives, not just by marriage but by blood. I love them dearly. Yet I confess that if I were walking down a street alone at night and I saw an unknown man coming toward me, I would be more nervous if he were black than if he were white. There is no real justification for this feeling... it is simply the result of having been raised in a racist society in which black people are often portrayed as naturally violent and criminal. It is a matter of intellectual will to overcome my inner racist and to keep walking and to nod and say hello as we pass by instead of crossing to the other side of the street... or calling the police and reporting a suspicious individual in the neighborhood.

While official racism has been banned in America, one needs only peruse the media and the internet to see that the inner racism I am talking a bout is still rampant and still affects the lives of minorities daily. I don't know George Zimmerman, I've never met him and can't read his mind... but based upon what I know about people, I suspect that if Trayvon was white, he would still be alive today.

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As for setting "events in motion," when Zimmerman made clear his intent by asking Martin what he was doing there, Martin could have replied along the lines of, "I live here. What's your excuse?" instead of going gangsta on him.

Trayvon didn't owe him an explanation for anything. As a young black man he had probably been subject to such bullshit, insulting, inquiries for much of his life. So it wouldn't be surprising that he wouldn't be feeling polite toward some asshole who thinks he has a right to interrogate him. Google "Microaggressions."

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That was what set the "events in motion" that lead to Martin's death. Otherwise, you might as well blame Zimmerman's mother for ever getting pregnant with George in the first place, and nail the source of the problem on Adam and Eve.

Why stop at Adam and Eve? Why not go all the way back and blame the Big Bang? It is because wild extrapolation is not an argument. On the night in question Zimmerman saw a young black man and he had a choice. He could have ignored his inner racist and given Trayvon the benefit of the doubt (because a man walking down the street should not be considered suspicious, whatever his skin color) but Zimmerman chose otherwise, and thereby set into motion the events that ended a young man's life.

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ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

By Hispanics? Really? On what planet?

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I guess you missed the whole "Following someone around at night without identifying yourself or providing any legal reason to be following them" being provocative -- especially given the historical prevalence of abducting, torturing, and lynching black kids in the south.

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Did you just claim that because of your inner racist, all people with brown skin are overt racists, but black people are not?

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You made the specific claim that Zimmerman was a racist. You were asked to back that up with evidence . The only evidence available in the real world, is that Martin called the man with brown skin the N word, and other racist epithets, while Zimmerman did not mention race at all until specifically asked by the dispatcher.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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Did you just claim that because of your inner racist, all people with brown skin are overt racists, but black people are not?

No. I don't know where in the hell you got that idea.

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You made the specific claim that Zimmerman was a racist. You were asked to back that up with evidence . The only evidence available in the real world, is that Martin called the man with brown skin the N word, and other racist epithets, while Zimmerman did not mention race at all until specifically asked by the dispatcher.

No, I am inclined to believe that Zimmerman is racist because he is a human. Nor did I make any claim that black people can't be racially bigoted. However, white racism and black racism are not on an equal footing. White racism is supported by a power structure that favors whites over non-whites. Google "white privilege."

As a white man I am more likely to be hired when seeking a job, to be granted a loan from a bank and to be rented an apartment. I am less likely to be followed by store security, to be pulled over for driving in the "wrong" neighborhood... or followed and questioned - and then shot and killed! - for walking in the "wrong" neighborhood.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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Did you just claim that because of your inner racist, all people with brown skin are overt racists, but black people are not?

No. I don't know where in the hell you got that idea.

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You made the specific claim that Zimmerman was a racist. You were asked to back that up with evidence . The only evidence available in the real world, is that Martin called the man with brown skin the N word, and other racist epithets, while Zimmerman did not mention race at all until specifically asked by the dispatcher.

No, I am inclined to believe that Zimmerman is racist because he is a human. Nor did I make any claim that black people can't be racially bigoted. However, white racism and black racism are not on an equal footing. White racism is supported by a power structure that favors whites over non-whites. Google "white privilege."

As a white man I am more likely to be hired when seeking a job, to be granted a loan from a bank and to be rented an apartment. I am less likely to be followed by store security, to be pulled over for driving in the "wrong" neighborhood... or followed and questioned - and then shot and killed! - for walking in the "wrong" neighborhood.