RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option

RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:54:06 PM)
Wasnt he on his cell phone? How could he be reaching for it?

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:54:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Just as reasonable to at least suspect that if he had been white he wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman. Because whites are more inherently peaceful? Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument.

tazzygirl -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:55:16 PM)
I get that.

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:55:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Wasnt he on his cell phone? How could he be reaching for it? Not when they first met.

dcnovice -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:56:21 PM)
quote: I have stated several times what I think Martins true motivation was. He saw Zimmerman reach for his cell phone and thought he was going for a weapon. That would protect him if he was on trial but it in no way negates Zimmerman's right to defend him self. If Martin thought Zimmerman had a weapon, did Martin, like Zimmerman, have the right to defend himself?

tazzygirl -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:56:56 PM)
Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket? Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone.

dcnovice -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 5:59:06 PM)
quote: Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument. Perhaps because, given the realities of U.S. history and society, not everyone agrees that the argument is absurd. Do you honestly think the scene would have unfolded the same way if Martin had been white?

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:04:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: I have stated several times what I think Martins true motivation was. He saw Zimmerman reach for his cell phone and thought he was going for a weapon. That would protect him if he was on trial but it in no way negates Zimmerman's right to defend him self. If Martin thought Zimmerman had a weapon, did Martin, like Zimmerman, have the right to defend himself? Why are you asking me a question I already answered . Yes, and if he were on trial I would be calling for his acquittal . This seems to be the hard part. A cell phone is not a weapon. While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Thus when Martin attacked him Zimmerman's right to self defense was in no way negated.

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:06:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket? Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone. He was not talking on the phone at the time. Since he wasn't using it he put it away.

dcnovice -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:08:12 PM)
quote: A cell phone is not a weapon. Neither are Skittles. Well, maybe to a dentist. quote: While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Does his belief's being accurate or not matter to his right to defend himself?

Politesub53 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:09:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This seems to be the hard part. A cell phone is not a weapon. While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Thus when Martin attacked him Zimmerman's right to self defense was in no way negated. Laughable given the claim Zimmerman feared for his life. What do you expect Martin thought when Zimmerman was reaching for something ?

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:10:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument. Perhaps because, given the realities of U.S. history and society, not everyone agrees that the argument is absurd. Do you honestly think the scene would have unfolded the same way if Martin had been white? I don't know but keep in mind that while the only racial slurs came from Martin he insisted that Zimmerman was clearly the racist. Can you honestly san that it would be different if Martin was white? You can feel so if you want but remember you will be saying that had he been white he wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman.

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:13:14 PM)
Are we recycling the X-ray vision meme again? quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: I have stated several times what I think Martins true motivation was. He saw Zimmerman reach for his cell phone and thought he was going for a weapon. That would protect him if he was on trial but it in no way negates Zimmerman's right to defend him self. If Martin thought Zimmerman had a weapon, did Martin, like Zimmerman, have the right to defend himself?

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:15:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: A cell phone is not a weapon. Neither are Skittles. Well, maybe to a dentist. quote: While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Does his belief's being accurate or not matter to his right to defend himself? No It affects Zimmerman's Zimmerman's right to self defense in intact with him going for the cell phone it would be different had he been going for the gun

Powergamz1 -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:15:50 PM)
In what reality did brown skinned people create this automatic presumption of real danger to black people? quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Why can't any of you see that I was highlighting the absurdity of his argument. Perhaps because, given the realities of U.S. history and society, not everyone agrees that the argument is absurd. Do you honestly think the scene would have unfolded the same way if Martin had been white?

tazzygirl -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:16:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket? Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone. He was not talking on the phone at the time. Since he wasn't using it he put it away. Thats not what I asked. Why would anyone put their phone away if they thought someone was out and about trying to break in?

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:16:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This seems to be the hard part. A cell phone is not a weapon. While Martin may well have believed there to be a weapon being pulled that does not make it so. Thus when Martin attacked him Zimmerman's right to self defense was in no way negated. Laughable given the claim Zimmerman feared for his life. What do you expect Martin thought when Zimmerman was reaching for something ? Read my post again, I already answered that.

dcnovice -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:16:58 PM)
quote: Are we recycling the X-ray vision meme again? Nope. Just asking a question. If it's reasonable to believe that Martin (unarmed) caused Zimmerman (armed) to fear for his life, is the opposite not possible as well? Does self-defense require that one actually be in danger, or does simply thinking it suffice?

BamaD -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:18:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ok. This makes no sense to me. Why would he put his phone away if he thought T was still roaming around. And why would he put it in his back pocket? Keep in mind, Z already said T circled the truck, so T saw him on the cell phone. He was not talking on the phone at the time. Since he wasn't using it he put it away. Thats not what I asked. Why would anyone put their phone away if they thought someone was out and about trying to break in? He had lost Martin as stated by both Martin and Zimmerman

dcnovice -> RE: Zimmerman III - Should the jury have a manslaughter option (7/11/2013 6:19:20 PM)
quote: In what reality did brown skinned people create this automatic presumption of real danger to black people? I'm not sure what you're attempting to ask here. You seem to be sacrificing clarity for snark.

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