RE: Contracts (Full Version)

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kalikshama -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 7:03:14 PM)

lalalalala, not there yet!

Who else is thinking of the bum tit tit song contract?



TallullahHk -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 7:07:13 PM)

The Relationship Agreement

Section 4: boo boos and ouchies [:D]



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 7:13:06 PM)

I don't find them pointless so much as I find them impractical.

The list of rules and expectations we use change so often, and so unexpectedly (because day to day life happens to change often and unexpectedly) that writing them all down would make no sense, because the contract would constantly have to be revised.

As far as general rules such as "the slave obeys all commands" I find them silly, because it's a rule one can neither agree to obey, nor enforce.
The only way you can get somebody to obey all commands is if you psychologically master (brainwash, whatever you want to call it) them to the point in which they're unable to disobey you. Once you're at that point, there is no need for there to be a rule, because of how practical reality at that point works. Before you're at that point, anybody signing a document that they're going to obey any command is lying, because they'll only obey commands they want to obey, which means it's up to the Top to only give command they know will be obeyed. And if the Top is already planning to only give commands they know will be obeyed anyways, writing down that they're supposed to be obeyed is rather silly.



TNDommeK -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 7:33:23 PM)

I love BBT.
We have contracts here for slaves.
Some people may not agree or use them, but we do, it works for us.



lizi -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 7:53:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

lalalalala, not there yet!

Who else is thinking of the bum tit tit song contract?


Omg, thanks Kali for reminding me of that treasure. Which in turn reminded me of this one, where he wanted her to wear a brown bracelet when she had the poopies and a red one for her period, amongst many other things, of course.



littlewonder -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 7:53:44 PM)

I personally find them useless. They have no legal binding and the words on the paper are only as good as the person may or may not be. A contract guarantees nothing at all.

But if you like them for the role play, fantasy effect then I guess they could be fun if that's what you like.



littlewonder -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 7:55:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SwitchNSpanky

I like contracts for certain times. They can be fun, spell out what's expected as well as heighten the anticipation of playtime, or add spice to the power dynamic. Yet, sometimes they can be silly. Especially if the terms are to unrealistic and the participants wind up ignoring the terms

If it interests you... Go for it. Worst case seenerio you fel cheesy. So what?


I wish I could say that is the worst case scenario. My experience has not been that. In fact, that contract turned out to be a major dissension to my last relationship in which it was constantly and consistently thrown in my face and used as a form of guilt and shame.



wckdmnd -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 8:12:44 PM)

Well if you weren't doing as you agreed to do in the contract. It should be thrown in your face



littlewonder -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 8:15:16 PM)

or it could be that our relationship was already over since he was cheating on me and felt no reason to stop or give any attention to me whatsoever because I was his slave so I felt no reason to obey.

But thanks for playing. [:)]



Focus50 -> RE: Contracts (7/8/2013 11:53:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wckdmnd

So as to not hijack a different thread. How do people feel about the use of contracts? Personally, I find them to be something tangible to refer to. As they spell out what's expected and what's not in no uncertain terms. However, others find them laughable. So how do you feel? Are they worth doing in a D/s or M/s dynamic? Or are they just something that gets in the way of you making it up as you go along?


A contract for a personal relationship amounts to a written pact of trust. And since I wouldn't or couldn't trust anyone who thinks they/we need one to be together, contracts therefore rank as a self-defeating exercise in nonsensical futility.

If my girl's got an issue with *anything* regarding our personal relationship, she's openly welcome to bring it to me for discussion. And since experience has taught me that that's not always an easy thing for the submissive mindset to do, I'll make it an issue when her body language inevitably betrays that she's got something on her mind.

How's that ol' chestnut go - enslave the mind and the body will follow? That'll work for me....

Focus.



Kana -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 3:43:05 AM)

-Contracts aren't legally binding so they aren't worth the paper they're printed on, much less the time to write one. They're just so much wank fodder. The point of a contract is to protect the involved parties. Since a contract isn't enforceable, no protection is given-thus, they are beyond worthless.
-The only contracts I've used are verbal. Why would I need otherwise. She gives me her word and that's that. Because, you know, if I didn't trust the slut, why would I want to be with the cunt. The agreements tend to be pretty basic too. She promises to serve, please and obey. I plan to be worthy. That's it.
-In a million billion years, I wouldn't have expected a thread with this title to devolve into BBT



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 3:57:05 AM)

fr

Personally I don't like them. We've radically changed our dynamic over the years and much of it would be hard to put into words. There would either be tons of clauses starting with 'unless' 'until' 'in case of...' so it was unwieldy, or it would be as simple as 'He's the boss, we both work to make a happy life'.

I can see the appeal. I can see it being a helpful exercise to see if you are both on the same page with your expectations. I can also see it being pleasurable to formalise things somewhat. It seems to me though, that if you are both committed to making things work and prepared to communicate and change, you will make it work regardless of whether there is a contract. If you aren't flexible, or are poor communicators, a contract will just become a point of conflict.

So, I don't see it as a good or a bad thing, since it mostly depends on the people using it.



DarkSteven -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 4:20:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wckdmnd

Well if you weren't doing as you agreed to do in the contract. It should be thrown in your face


That statement indicates a problem I hadn't foreseen with contracts.

Unlike legally enforceable contracts, lifestyle contracts tend to cover attitude and squishy stuff - no easily measurable metrics. What one party considers obedience, another may not. Same with "respectful attitude". That kind of imprecision means that a partner who chooses to use the contract terms to manipulate and beat someone over the head can do some damage.



wckdmnd -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 4:40:35 AM)

This is way too long to post the whole thing. But as an example of a basic contract http://sxcontracts.blogspot.com/2007/03/voluntary-servitude-contract_28.html



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 4:45:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wckdmnd

This is way too long to post the whole thing. But as an example of a basic contract http://sxcontracts.blogspot.com/2007/03/voluntary-servitude-contract_28.html


No matter how well it tried to pretend it's a valid contract, and has some meaning, it doesn't.

It's not a contract, and not legally binding, and should be absolutely unnecessary between two people who communicate well, as it doesn't mention anything but broad generalizations that should have been talked about anyways.

All this thing does is show that both parties intended to break the law with premeditation. If this thing gets brought to the attention to any DA worth their salt, he'll file harsher charges, because it show that both parties were aware they were breaking the law, and willfully went ahead with it anyways.



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 4:49:29 AM)

That contract is a particularly poor one. It gives the Master the right to enforce the contract through the courts of law or by physical force if the slave wants to end it and the Master doesn't. No court will uphold that, no matter how many times the contract says it. The bit about not being coerced to sign it is also meaningless - short of having it notarized, it doesn't hold up. I could hold a gun to your head and force you to write 'I am writing this of my own free will'.

It also seems to include a lot of fantasy - it seems unnecessary to specify all the fun kinky things the Master may or may not do (the bits about hoods etc). And I'd be alarmed that it was necessary to point out that the person be allowed to care for their diabetes.

Ultimately that contract is likely to harm the master more than help if it came down to the courts - it might even be considered evidence in an assault/rape/abuse case. Also who types out a document which attempts to give the master legal support, and mentions in it that the master might supply the slave with 'state-altering' drugs? Seems foolish.

I answered earlier thinking you meant a contract in which both people talk about what they need from the relationship, not one full of pseudo-legal jargon. I'd consider that one to be not worth the paper it was printed on. If you are turned on by legal documents I suppose it could be a fun role play.



thishereboi -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 5:01:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Are there any other Bing Bang fans here thinking about The Roommate Agreement?



yup lol



wckdmnd -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 5:11:57 AM)

Of course it's not legally enforceable. The contract even states such in the very beginning of it. Whether it's legally enforceable or not isn't the point. What is the point is it lays out, in no uncertain terms, the duties and responsibilities, of the parties involved



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 5:19:13 AM)

Well if it works for you and your sub, that's all that matters.



wckdmnd -> RE: Contracts (7/9/2013 5:27:17 AM)

you want to argue "legalities" your Master takes a cane to your backside and causes deep bruising. That's illegal. In some states it's felonious assault and battery. you gave consent. Which means you both entered into an illegal act with full knowledge it was illegal. A lot that's done in BDSM is illegal on the books. Especially now that extreme use is becoming more popular. So your point about legality is what exactly?



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