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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 7:09:49 AM

TNDommeK

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Fast reply, bc I didn't read everyone else's responses.

I was just talking about this with Hibby on Facebook. The family and I were out eating at Cracker Barrel. And we saw two men work the shit out of the waitress and left her two dollars! A dollar each! I was furious.
I think most of everyone has worked in the waiting business at some point. So we appreciate the value of tips. Our check was usually reduced to nothing after taxes and such. So tips put food on our table.

Now that I'm older, I still have one job where I rely on tips. (Even though the tips are much greater) so I make sure I tip very well. And if you go above and beyond, I tip the shit out of you. We have had people argue over who was getting us in their section in restaurants before. So, in closing, TIP! And if you have questions about, is this enough of a tip...TIP MORE!

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 7:10:28 AM

tazzygirl

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~FR

Most servers will usually say if they arent making at least 10 an hour in tips, they are having a bad night. There is, typically, 2 hours of side work... cleaning, silverware, glassware, stocking... so if I go in for 7 hours, and I dont take 70 from my tables (even though I only may have tables for 5 hours) its simply not a good night. I have gone to work and went home early without a single table... because it was that slow. Other nights, 250.

Someone mentioned busboys.... Its almost impossible to work without one, keep tables turning quickly, and keep the customers happy. The same with a hostess, invaluable.

My base salary paid my tax bill. I was working for free, in essence, and my tips were my income. All credit card tips went onto paychecks. 17% of my tips went to bussboys, hostess, bartender.... if I didnt have to wait on drinks from the bar, or my busser was also helpful with other things at my tables, I tipped them more.

Unless a server is working at Denny's or Applebee's, tips will usually be at least 10% of the check. We had a minimum tip on parties 6 or more. I have had groups of 20. Its also a fickle business. Depending on the style of restaurant, holidays can see busy or dead times. Local events can cut into business or make it more hectic. In a resort area, many restaurants will close for off season months.

As far as declaring tips... credit cards are always declared. If I have a night of cash tips, I will tip out my crew, then declare up to minimum. There are weeks when I am over declaring, so it equals out.

If someone is waiting tables, in a good restaurant, and cant make 10 an hour, they need a new line of work.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 7:13:30 AM

ARIES83

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Whats Hib doing these days? She should come back...

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 7:17:59 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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I agree that going out to a restaurant knowing you can't afford to tip shows an appalling lack of compassion. Unfortunately, I don't think it's unique.

Wait staff in a low end restaurant, like IHOP for example, are not going to make anywhere near as much as they would in a high end place.

I was a banquet bartender for a university alumni club about 15 years ago, and I made at least $20 an hour with tips. When there was a large wedding or event, it was not unusual to take home an extra $150-250 in gratuity.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 7:40:51 AM

TNDommeK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Whats Hib doing these days? She should come back...

I agree.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 7:58:26 AM

Marc2b

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While I agree that people should be paid a decent wage... even if that happens I will continue to tip generously. Until, decent wages are paid, decent tips remain important. I used to drive taxi so I know how important tips can be.

I didn't read the whole article, the man is to clueless for me to bother. He is wrong about the racial aspect of tipping. It is a matter of economic class. Poor people (be they black or white), not surprisingly tend to be poor tippers. They at least have an excuse. Wealthy people also tend to be poor tippers... I figure them as clueless like the author of the article. The worst tippers are religious people on the conservative side of the aisle. Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons always expected the exact change back and would get very testy if you didn't have it. Baptists and evangelicals would usually give you the exact change... and one of those stupid "accept Jesus or you will burn in hell" pamphlets.

The best tippers came from the middle class and then more from the blue collar ranks. They are people who understand what it means to struggle with money.

The only case in which I would give a lousy tip, or none at all, is when the server is deliberately rude to me without cause. Such has happened only once in my life. If the server is doing a poor job because they are obviously new and inexperienced or because the restaurant is short staffed and they are being run ragged... that to me is a reason to be even more generous with the tip.

Bottom line for me: Tip your servers. Tip them generously. And if you are one of those people who is a lousy tipper or doesn't tip at all because you didn't like the food (which is the cooks fault, not the server's) or because of some self serving bullshit philosophy that you don't believe in tipping... then I cordially invite you to fornicate yourself with a rusty iron shaft you cheap ass mother fucker!

Unless of course, self fornication with rusty implements is your kink... in which case I invite you NOT to do so.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 8:16:09 AM

MasterCaneman

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I agree that servers/bartenders/etc. should be paid minimum wage or better, but that's not how it works nor will it anytime soon. The restaurant and bar industry is cyclical and fickle, as others have pointed out, and there are certain types of customers that don't tip.

One of the problems is that the bars and restaurants are already paying too much just to stay open, from food and beverage costs, energy and other consumables, taxes, fees, and insurance. Here is NYS, the liability insurance on a bar is staggering because of all the idiots who drink, drive, and end up killing or maiming someone. Most of the joints I've worked at fell into the 'barely hanging on by their fingernails' category on that expense alone.

But, yeah, it would be nice for folks who work these kind of jobs to get more out of what they do. I tip as well as I can, because I know. If I can't, I don't go out. I once worked an eight-hour shift at a corner tavern where they sold 85-cent drafts, and at the end of the day all I had to show in my jar was sixty-five cents. The cheap bastards would recycle their change into the next draft, and I was probably lucky to get even that.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 8:23:55 AM

DomKen

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I'm pretty sure the only time I've tipped less than 15% was a horrible experience with my extended family. I was visiting with some aunts, uncles and cousins for my aunts 70th birthday. So we took her out to dinner at a place she wanted to try (being on a fixed income she never ate out). The place was not busy and we had called ahead to let them know a big group was coming. Our waitress seemed to genuinely not care about keeping her job. She basically ignored us until I went over and told her we were ready to order. Our food came out cold after we sat and watched her chit chatting with another server for a long time. She ruined my aunt's birthday dinner so she got a one cent tip and my uncle and I had a talk with the manager, who graciously removed the automatic gratuity from the check.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 8:43:12 AM

JstAnotherSub

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I am an awesome tipper, because I have worked as a waitress before. That said, I tip well for good service, and most awesomely for great service, but if you act as if you hate me and your job and I have to constantly work to get your attention for a refill or such, I feel no guilt whatsoever about leaving you little or nothing.

You earn your tip by doing your job, just as I earn my salary for doing my job.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 8:48:09 AM

tazzygirl

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The point is... if at your job, you do a shitty job, you either get retrained, reassigned or fired, your income while there doesnt suffer.

As a server, if you do a bad job, you make less than minimum wage. If a server does a good job, they make an average tip amount. They dont get bonuses for doing fantastic work, they really dont make more for being excellent at their job, because tips are not based upon effort or merit. Tips are based upon the good will of people who are there to partake of the service. And not everyone has good will. So it is possible that a server can work 40 hours, week after week, and make far less than minimum wage... which is illegal.

Oh, just as an aside for those who are reading. If you use a credit card, your server pays that fee in many cases.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 9:06:11 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree that servers/bartenders/etc. should be paid minimum wage or better, but that's not how it works nor will it anytime soon.

I don't know where you live because I didn't bother to click on your profile to see but I've lived in 6 states and visited all of them - except Hawaii. I have never seen a bartender that wasn't making at least minimum wage (although, to be fair, I don't go to a "neighborhood haunt" unless I've actually lived there).

With that being said; I am not making a case for not tipping. Far from it. I do think that the government, allowing some industries to treat workers this way, seems to be a clear violation of the 14th amendment.

The arguments of: "You don't have to work there" become sophistry when you are dealing with an economy like we are. People have to take any damned job they can get their hands on and industries being allowed to pay sub-minimum wage is tantamount to a form of institutionalized corporate slavery. [/rant]

I agree with the sentiment that even if people made minimum wage, tipping shouldn't stop but, I certainly don't like feeling guilted into paying (sometimes; being forced to pay in the case of larger groups) 15 - 18% as a minimum for bad service.

When I walk into a place, the server is guaranteed 20% unless their service doesn't merit it. I have been known to leave as much as 50% (on very rare occasions) because the service really was out-standing but I don't like feeling like I have to or someone's baby is going to starve. That shouldn't be an issue for me since I'm not employing them; the business is.

If prodded, I will tell two stories that are at opposite ends of my tipping spectrum but suffice it to say that I tip fairly well but refuse to feel obligated to tip for lousy service. The way I learned it: (T)o (I)nsure (P)roper (S)ervice. Now, I will give any server a one-time pass. Anyone can be having a bad day but that one-time pass usually results in a bare minimum (15%) tip.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 9:10:58 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

I agree with the sentiment that even if people made minimum wage, tipping shouldn't stop but, I certainly don't like feeling guilted into paying (sometimes; being forced to pay in the case of larger groups) 15 - 18% as a minimum for bad service.

Isnt true. Someone can always talk to management and demand the tip amount be reduced. If service is that bad (and most places here require 18%) then I would be complaining and long before the bill came.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 9:12:05 AM

TNDommeK

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FR~

If you're service is shitty, your tip will be.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 9:49:35 AM

ThatDaveGuy69

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Several lifetimes ago I delivered pizzas for what was at the time the best pizza place around. I busted my ass and broke a lot of driving laws to get there as soon as possible.

Call this a racist staement if you want but black people tip for shit. That was true for delivery and for sit down service in the restaurant. So in that respect, tipping - or the lack thereof - can cause racist behavior on the part of the waitstaff. But this is not to say that white folk always tipped well nor that all black were poor tippers. I remember one little old lady (white) who lived on the far side of the next town. She would order a chicken basket which came to an odd price like $6.90. As I stood there making change for a 50 (every damn time!) she would tell me to keep the dime. Gee, thanks - looks like I can splurge on the name-brand ketchup this week! And then there was a middle-age blind man who ordered almost every night. He was fairly close-by so he always got his order fresh and hot. And he appreciated us not trying to take advantage of him and always gave us 2 or 3 dollars. But I could tell from the front of the house what was likely to happen. As the neighborhoods in that town changed, the black families became obsessed with steel storm doors with a double-keyed deadbolt. Nine times out of 10, seeing that typer of soor meant no tip. And we had a good memory for bad tips. Known good tippers always got their pizzas delivered the fastest while the bad/non-tippers waited. It became a bit of a joke for us as to who would get stuck with specific customers. Decades later I can still remember certain houses that tipped well and certain ones that did not.

There is another aspect to tipping that didn't get brought up very clearly: Your waitress pays taxes whether you tip or not. The IRS -assumes- that waitresses always get tipped and tax accordingly. It's the same IRS brilliance that says if you win a car in a raffle you pay taxes on the MSRP - nevermind that no one ever pays full retail on a car. So every time you don't tip your waiter/waitress loses money.

I agree that ALL employees should be paid the minimum wage. This gap-based pay system is bullshit and tips should be given for excellent service and not be expected.

And having said all that, I always over-tip, even when the service is not all that great. IMHO, waiting is the sort of job you take to get through college or while you're between opportunites and should not really be a career.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 9:58:40 AM

tazzygirl

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I have to say my experience is that no one tips worse than people from the middle east.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 35

RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 10:24:57 AM

igor2003

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--FR--

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know what all has been said and by whom. I'm just going to throw my two cents in, and if someone wants to consider it a tip, then more power to them.

I don't mind giving a reasonable tip when a person has actually done something for me. But there are times when tips are expected and yet nothing has been done for me personally, or when what was done was so minor, and often unasked for, that it becomes ridiculous. For instance, I was once leaving the Treasure Island hotel in Vegas. My suitcase was sitting on the ground maybe 5 feet away. An attendant picked it up and handed it to me, then expected a tip. I am fully capable of, and intended to pick up my own damn luggage. No way am I going to tip someone for something so trivial and stupid.

There are other situations that I am somewhat torn about. For instance, although I usually do leave a small tip I often wonder why, when I go to a self-service smorgasbord, go get my own food, seconds,and refills and am ready to leave...why do I leave a tip for the person that busses the table? They did nothing for me personally. They cleared the table for the business...not me.

And one thing I am TOTALLY against is when a business automatically adds the tip to your bill. When I see that I'll walk out of the place and never return. I have seen it happen more than once where a bill comes with the tip already added. The person doesn't notice and adds yet more tip, but you know good and well that the business doesn't point out that the tip was already included. They pocket the extra and smile all the way home. But beyond that, the tip is supposed to be an "extra", given at will by the patron in appreciation of good service. It should NEVER be a requirement.

Okay...that's all I have to say for now.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 10:37:59 AM

DaddySatyr

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 (I hope you won't mind a snip because I want to address one specific thing)

Several lifetimes ago I delivered pizzas for what was at the time the best pizza place around. I busted my ass and broke a lot of driving laws to get there as soon as possible.

... And we had a good memory for bad tips. Known good tippers always got their pizzas delivered the fastest while the bad/non-tippers waited. It became a bit of a joke for us as to who would get stuck with specific customers. Decades later I can still remember certain houses that tipped well and certain ones that did not.

I just moved in here, a few days more than three months ago. While we were moving in, I noticed a place four blocks (.4 miles because I live on a one-way street and have to "go the long way") away. As were were being moved in, I decided to treat the movers to some pizzas and soda.

The total came to $48 and some change. I handed the guy three $20 bills. That pizza wasn't all that warm. I ordered a few more times (usually it comes to $17 and I let them keep the change from a $20 and if I have an extra single or two, I throw that in). I haven't received a hot pizza yet (and it's summer time).

So, I asked one of the drivers why I was always last on the run, being that I'm so close and that the one-way direction of my street is not a detriment to accessing the "main drag". He told me that that was the way his boss routed the deliveries. What did I do? The next time I called, I asked to speak with the boss. I told him that I had gotten some less than appetizing pizzas in the past and could he please make sure that I was as close to first up as possible.

He said he would try but also mentioned that I could always throw the pizza in my oven to re-heat it. He sent the pizza and it was almost an hour before it was delivered (remember from .4 miles away) and it was almost cold - not quite but almost.

The driver came to the door, I checked the pizza, handed him a five, told him to take the pizza back and tell his boss that if I wanted to cook, I didn't need to call out for food. Then, I called the pizza joint and told the boss that I refused to pay for the pizza and had sent it back (surprise. Surprise! The driver had already returned! That's how close I live). I called to make sure that the driver didn't get stuck with the price of the pie.

Now, a $3 tip on a $17 pizza isn't breaking the bank but it's somewhere in the 18% range. considering how close I live, how the place charges an extra $2.50 for delivery (which ostensibly the driver gets at least a part of), and the frequency of my orders, you would think things would be a little better. The truth is customer service, in general, has gone to shit in this country.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Post #: 37

RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 10:39:09 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

There are other situations that I am somewhat torn about. For instance, although I usually do leave a small tip I often wonder why, when I go to a self-service smorgasbord, go get my own food, seconds,and refills and am ready to leave...why do I leave a tip for the person that busses the table? They did nothing for me personally. They cleared the table for the business...not me.

Actually, they did clear the table for you. Do you want to eat around dirty dishes?

quote:

And one thing I am TOTALLY against is when a business automatically adds the tip to your bill. When I see that I'll walk out of the place and never return. I have seen it happen more than once where a bill comes with the tip already added. The person doesn't notice and adds yet more tip, but you know good and well that the business doesn't point out that the tip was already included. They pocket the extra and smile all the way home. But beyond that, the tip is supposed to be an "extra", given at will by the patron in appreciation of good service. It should NEVER be a requirement.

I can only speak about the places I have worked in on this. We are required to circle the automatic gratuity and inform the table, or the payor, that its been added for their convenience and per restaurant policy. At the time the bill is presented, the bill it not finalized in the system. The amount can always be adjusted. I have had many add extra, and when I see that, I will once again point out that my tip was already added.

Once again, an automatic tip doesnt mean it has to remain that amount. A quick talk with management may see it lowered or removed, depending on the complaints. However, I have had manager refuse to lower it based solely upon someone not wanting to pay that amount. Unless my service was terrible and there were complaints early on, or I was ignoring them or rude, the amount stood.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to igor2003)

Post #: 38

RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 4:54:42 PM

OrionTheWolf

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~FR~

I will always tip service people, and if they are above average I tip accordingly. I grew up in service industry, and your tips reflect how well you perform. I tip 20% to 40%, depending on the type of restaurant and the quality of the service. The article is bunk, other than I do not believe there should be a reduced wage for servers.

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RE: Time to Rethink Tipping? - 7/11/2013 5:13:57 PM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
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At the club I work, beer is 4.50. Guys will actually tell the bar tender to keep the change, when giving a five. Unless of course my smart ass is sitting over there. Ill usually say something to make them feel stupid.

< Message edited by TNDommeK -- 7/11/2013 5:14:38 PM >

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Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

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Post #: 40

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