RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs?


Yes.
  29% (7)
Yes, but Trayvon "would be like my son" like Obama said earlier
  8% (2)
Yes, but hey, they had to do something and I would too.
  8% (2)
No.
  54% (13)


Total Votes : 24
(last vote on : 7/12/2013 6:25:21 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


dcnovice -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 5:36:02 PM)

FR

I've wondered if the prosecution was just going through the motions. (Pun unintended.)




BitYakin -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 5:48:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

I've wondered if the prosecution was just going through the motions. (Pun unintended.)


well ask yourself this question...

if your boss came to you and told you to do something you knew couldn't be done, and you told him it couldn't be done and he said well try anyhow. would you put alot of effort into trying, might you not even go to great lengths to make your boss feel silly for wasting yout time making you try?




Subtlycaptivated -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 7:47:49 PM)

tazzy, I think the premis of caregiver comes from the allegation of abuse that the prosecutor was seeking to add at the last minute to the charges.

that one guy, powergames? was saying that it would only stick if Zimmerman had been a caregiver, but...he wasn't. I argued that because of his position as a neighborhood watch couldn't it be construed that he was a caregiver? We never got a reply to that. Just banter.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Someone point out to me where it says it has to be a caregiver who commits the 3rd degree?





BamaD -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 7:49:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

In the trial that George is in for a little while more, the prosecution at the last moment tried to sneak in a charge of "Child Abuse" this morning. It was in an oh by the way email to the Defense this morning. Of course, the Judge tossed it out.

Do you think the prosecution are slime balls for doing this?

They are lawyers.




tazzygirl -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 8:48:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subtlycaptivated

tazzy, I think the premis of caregiver comes from the allegation of abuse that the prosecutor was seeking to add at the last minute to the charges.

that one guy, powergames? was saying that it would only stick if Zimmerman had been a caregiver, but...he wasn't. I argued that because of his position as a neighborhood watch couldn't it be construed that he was a caregiver? We never got a reply to that. Just banter.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Someone point out to me where it says it has to be a caregiver who commits the 3rd degree?




I happened to notice that 2012 they changed the child abuse reporting requirements, making it illegal for anyone, not just caregivers, to not report abuse. Not reporting makes it a 3rd degree felony.





Phydeaux -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 9:59:26 PM)

Powergame's point is that there are ethical obligations that bind the prosecution, and all parts of the chain. Police offices have to get a warrant. They have to mirandize you. Grand juries have to be convened for certain actions. Prosecution must give you full discovery. Judges are not allowed to confer with one lawyer without the other present. Etc.

So the power of the state is constrained in numerous ways. No self incrimination. Trials by jury. Probable cause. Reasonable doubt.
things like evidentiary law, where heresay isn't admissable.

etc.




Phydeaux -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 10:04:17 PM)

Subtly,

I answered your post previously and I'll answer it again. The state is constrained in numerous ways. (see up a post or two for examples). So while they are expected to do a good job in their prosecution they have constraints the defense doesn't have. It is, as power said, intended to level the playing field.




Phydeaux -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/11/2013 10:09:48 PM)

As to your point about Zimmerman being a caregiver - not in the legal sense of the statute.

But putting that objection aside, caregiver implies a familial obligation. A guardian ad litem, and elder guardian, a parent or foster parent are caregivers to those whose abilities to defend themselves are impaired, which a neighborhood watch person does not have.

Even if you were to say that he had a professional or ethical responsibility it wouldn't qualify under the statute as an "caregiver" obligation. No more than having a fiduciary responsibility as an accountant would make you a caregiver - unless in fact the person were in your care.

Being a neighborhood watch person would not qualify. Even if you could argue that zimmerman had an obligation (which does not exist) to provide care for the neighborhood, the counter argument would be that travon did not qualify, perhaps not being a resident of the neighborhood.

But more importantly, a good samaritan exception would seem to apply.




mnottertail -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/12/2013 5:24:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Powergame's point is that there are ethical obligations that bind the prosecution, and all parts of the chain. Police offices have to get a warrant. They have to mirandize you. Grand juries have to be convened for certain actions. Prosecution must give you full discovery. Judges are not allowed to confer with one lawyer without the other present. Etc.

So the power of the state is constrained in numerous ways. No self incrimination. Trials by jury. Probable cause. Reasonable doubt.
things like evidentiary law, where heresay isn't admissable.

etc.


As is the power of the defense, they may not avoid discovery, they may not knowingly lie, they must live with trials by jury, they must create reasonable doubt...and so on.

Nice apology elide regarding the very cretinous social and political faux pas made by untutored shithouse lawyers that claim that Criminal Justice 101 informs you that Prosecutors are exempt from the code of ethics that keeps their license. Why aren't we jerking cards, do you know how many of these fuckin illegal throats are not phoning it in over in the prosecutors office?





farglebargle -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/12/2013 5:33:15 AM)

If he was 'protecting the community', and Trayvon Martin was a LEGAL RESIDENT OF THAT COMMUNITY, then doesn't George Zimmerman ASSUME THAT RESPONSIBILITY?

The fact that he didn't even bother trying to identify himself, or presume that Trayvon Martin had every lawful reason to be going about his peaceful business unmolested -- that's the negligent act that convicts him on manslaughter.




Subtlycaptivated -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/12/2013 5:48:57 PM)

I absolutely see what you are saying...and that makes a great deal more sense than the previous replies.

I was simply stating it as an argument that could be made to a certain extent. Even if the argument was later invalidated or completely ripped to shreds.

It's the idea that the wording could be construed and moved around.

But I do see what you are saying and I do agree that the obligation would be minimal, if it existed at all.

=)
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

As to your point about Zimmerman being a caregiver - not in the legal sense of the statute.

But putting that objection aside, caregiver implies a familial obligation. A guardian ad litem, and elder guardian, a parent or foster parent are caregivers to those whose abilities to defend themselves are impaired, which a neighborhood watch person does not have.

Even if you were to say that he had a professional or ethical responsibility it wouldn't qualify under the statute as an "caregiver" obligation. No more than having a fiduciary responsibility as an accountant would make you a caregiver - unless in fact the person were in your care.

Being a neighborhood watch person would not qualify. Even if you could argue that zimmerman had an obligation (which does not exist) to provide care for the neighborhood, the counter argument would be that travon did not qualify, perhaps not being a resident of the neighborhood.

But more importantly, a good samaritan exception would seem to apply.





Subtlycaptivated -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/12/2013 5:53:42 PM)

While manslaughter may come into play, I kind of wonder if this will be another OJ situation where he will walk on the charges and then get his ass sued off for wrongful death.

Which...in all honesty...I can see that going well for the family, with the exception of getting paid.

The legal system is mind boggling at times. And annoying to say the least.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If he was 'protecting the community', and Trayvon Martin was a LEGAL RESIDENT OF THAT COMMUNITY, then doesn't George Zimmerman ASSUME THAT RESPONSIBILITY?

The fact that he didn't even bother trying to identify himself, or presume that Trayvon Martin had every lawful reason to be going about his peaceful business unmolested -- that's the negligent act that convicts him on manslaughter.





tazzygirl -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/12/2013 5:56:49 PM)

How would a good samaritan exception prevent the duty to report?




VideoAdminChi -> RE: Is the prosecution a bunch of slimeballs? (7/12/2013 6:34:48 PM)

FR,

This thread is locked for cleanup. Please take the discussion to the Unmoderated Zimmerman thread.




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