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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 8:53:53 PM

Edwynn

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You've been taking pointers from Politesub, haven't you?

Tell the truth, now.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 8:58:16 PM

SadistDave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Keep in mind that Zimmerman doesn't have to prove that is was self defense the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't.

This may have been covered already, but as I understand the Florida law on this, the prosecution has to prove that Zimmerman did not feel that his life was threatened AND that he did not have a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury at the time of the shooting.

Everything else is fluff. It doesn't matterthat Zimmerman did many things the prosecutiuon has buil;t the case on because he did not break the law by following the punk or even having his weapon. Since the defence is self defence under stand your ground, the only aspect of the law that really matters is whether the prosecution can prove Zimmerman did not fear for his life or bodily harm as he was having his head pounded in the pavement.

As I understand it, there really doesn't even need to be an injury, just the fear of serious injury would justify Zimmerman killing the Martin under Florida's stand your ground law.

Personally, I don't think the prosecution was poorly executed... I truely hope Zimmerman walks.

-SD-

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:01:48 PM

Marini

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Trayvon made a fatal mistake, by deciding to confront Zimmerman.
Trayvon should have walked away and let it go, BUT he had no idea what the hell was going on.
Trayvon might have thought Zimmerman was a predator, after him for whatever reason or meant him harm.

Hell, if someone is clearly following me on foot/or in a car, I am not going home, I would not want them to know where I live.

If Trayvon had asked him "Why are you following me?" ---what happens next?

Even if Trayvon had asked him in a quiet manner, it easily could have escalated and quickly become physical.

Following and chasing someone especially at night is extremely dangerous and is a very aggressive and confrontational stance.

Who knows what ANYONE will do when we are in that situation?
Have you ever been followed/chased in an aggressive manner?

I was followed once in a car going home alone/late at night {maybe 1:00 am}, and I was followed by another car full of young thugswho kept asking/trying to get me to pull over.
They were yelling at me things like "bitch pull over", they even tried to cut me off.
They followed me for several blocks, I felt like I was in a horror movie, and I was shaking from head to toe.
I would go down one random street and then the other, and they aggressively kept following me, saying to pull over so they could "talk to me".
It was late at night I was on my way home, and it scared the shit out of me.
I certainly did not go home, I managed to drive to a main road near a well lit shopping center, and they continued to follow me and finally drove off.
I swear they yelled something like "bitch you were lucky or you are not worth it" as they left.

If I had pulled over, and confronted the trash in that car, or If I had not been able to make it to a well lit main road/shopping center, I have no reason NOT to believe that that would have been the end of me.

If I had a gun in my car, I would have used it before I let them pull me out of my car.
I lived 10 minutes from DC and I am fairly certain someone in that car full of thugs had a gun on them.

When you are scared out of your mind, you don't know what the hell you will do.
I was scared shitless and I saw my life flashing before me.
Every bone in my body was shaking, I remember vividly and this was over 20 years ago,

What if Trayvon had also had a gun on him or at least a knife?

Zimmerman created this entire situation.

Let someone follow and chase you, when you are alone on a dark night.
You don't know WHAT the fuck you will do or what you are capable of doing when you are scared.

I rarely share personal stuff, but talking about being followed and chased, and being scared out of my mind, hit home.

Often, when you are frightened or scared, the LAST thing you are is "rational".

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/12/2013 9:50:07 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:02:03 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
I truely hope Zimmerman walks.

-SD-

Yet another pussy, protecting his own kind.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 9:06:15 PM >

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:13:23 PM

Powergamz1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Pardon me for being 'old school' here, but back in the day an attacker did not have the 'right' of self defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

And I didn't even speak of any laws, but you, my good friend, have nevertheless pointed out that I lied about something I never even mentioned.

That's what friends are for.

Do tell... never mentioned any laws, when (falsely) saying that there was no right to self defense? Suuuuuuuure....

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 7/12/2013 9:14:02 PM >

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" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:19:16 PM

tazzygirl

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~~~~ OK... Hilarity Break!!! Take a deep breath people and read the following, please!!! ~~~~

This was from my facebook

How Do Court Reporters Keep Straight Faces?

These are from a book called Disorder in the Courts and are things people actually said in court, word for word, taken down and published by court reporters that had the torment of staying calm while the exchanges were taking place.

ATTORNEY: What was the first thing your husband said to you that morning?
WITNESS: He said, 'Where am I, Cathy?'
ATTORNEY: And why did that upset you?
WITNESS: My name is Susan!
_______________________________
ATTORNEY: What gear were you in at the moment of the impact?
WITNESS: Gucci sweats and Reeboks.
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Are you sexually active?
WITNESS: No, I just lie there.
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: What is your date of birth?
WITNESS: July 18th.
ATTORNEY: What year?
WITNESS: Every year.
_____________________________________
ATTORNEY: How old is your son, the one living with you?
WITNESS: Thirty-eight or thirty-five, I can't remember which.
ATTORNEY: How long has he lived with you?
WITNESS: Forty-five years.
_________________________________
ATTORNEY: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at all?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: And in what ways does it affect your memory?
WITNESS: I forget..
ATTORNEY: You forget? Can you give us an example of something you forgot?
___________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?
WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?
____________________________________

ATTORNEY: The youngest son, the 20-year-old, how old is he?
WITNESS: He's 20, much like your IQ.
___________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Were you present when your picture was taken?
WITNESS: Are you shitting me?
_________________________________________
ATTORNEY: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: And what were you doing at that time?
WITNESS: Getting laid
____________________________________________

ATTORNEY: She had three children , right?
WITNESS: Yes.
ATTORNEY: How many were boys?
WITNESS: None.
ATTORNEY: Were there any girls?
WITNESS: Your Honor, I think I need a different attorney. Can I get a new attorney?
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: How was your first marriage terminated?
WITNESS: By death..
ATTORNEY: And by whose death was it terminated?
WITNESS: Take a guess.
___________________________________________

ATTORNEY: Can you describe the individual?
WITNESS: He was about medium height and had a beard
ATTORNEY: Was this a male or a female?
WITNESS: Unless the Circus was in town I'm going with male.
_____________________________________
ATTORNEY: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition notice which I sent to your attorney?
WITNESS: No, this is how I dress when I go to work.
______________________________________
ATTORNEY: Doctor , how many of your autopsies have you performed on dead people?
WITNESS: All of them. The live ones put up too much of a fight.
_________________________________________
ATTORNEY: ALL your responses MUST be oral, OK? What school did you go to?
WITNESS: Oral...
_________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
WITNESS: The autopsy started around 8:30 PM
ATTORNEY: And Mr. Denton was dead at the time?
WITNESS: If not, he was by the time I finished.
____________________________________________
ATTORNEY: Are you qualified to give a urine sample?
WITNESS: Are you qualified to ask that question?

______________________________________
And last:

ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for breathing?
WITNESS: No..
ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
ATTORNEY: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:29:12 PM

Powergamz1

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As pointed out repeatedly, there was nothing about this case that involved the SYG law. This was cut and dried self defense under the same standard set for the entire nation by the USSC decades ago.

The reasonably perceived danger can be of death, or grievous bodily harm. GBH has a standard definition. Note that the fear does not have to be based on reality... pointing an unloaded, broken, or realistic fake gun at someone still clears them to defend themselves.

The use of force has to be proportionate to the threat... unless some unusual factors are a work, no guns at fistfights.

The danger has to be imminent... this runs into conflict in some 'burning bed' type abuse situations. 'I was afraid they would kill me the next day' is often poorly received. It can be a very real fear, and might even save someone's life, but it exceeds the threshold for self defense in some places.

Zimmerman's composite claim falls within each of the recognized boundaries.

So the job of the prosecution is to prove beyond any reasonable doubt, that a rational person who was on the ground, with a few injuries, who felt the 'puncher' grabbing at their jacket over the holster... wouldn't pucker up.

And as said before, nobody but Zimmerman was apparently in a position to know for sure if that's what really happened.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Keep in mind that Zimmerman doesn't have to prove that is was self defense the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't.

This may have been covered already, but as I understand the Florida law on this, the prosecution has to prove that Zimmerman did not feel that his life was threatened AND that he did not have a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury at the time of the shooting.

Everything else is fluff. It doesn't matterthat Zimmerman did many things the prosecutiuon has buil;t the case on because he did not break the law by following the punk or even having his weapon. Since the defence is self defence under stand your ground, the only aspect of the law that really matters is whether the prosecution can prove Zimmerman did not fear for his life or bodily harm as he was having his head pounded in the pavement.

As I understand it, there really doesn't even need to be an injury, just the fear of serious injury would justify Zimmerman killing the Martin under Florida's stand your ground law.

Personally, I don't think the prosecution was poorly executed... I truely hope Zimmerman walks.

-SD-

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:31:07 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Pardon me for being 'old school' here, but back in the day an attacker did not have the 'right' of self defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

And I didn't even speak of any laws, but you, my good friend, have nevertheless pointed out that I lied about something I never even mentioned.

That's what friends are for.

Do tell... never mentioned any laws, when (falsely) saying that there was no right to self defense? Suuuuuuuure....

Yeah, I get it, calm down.

If I attack you, and you defend yourself in the process, then I have the right to shoot you, for defending yourself against my attack, because I'm defending myself against your defense which is now an attack, so I can now 'stand my ground' against your defense of my attack, which is now all of a sudden your attack, and then ...

Easy peasy, I get it.

Calm down, man.

Here, lemmie give you a Howitzer.

Sleep easy now, and just ignore my slimy thoughts. Think only of your pure, clean thoughts.

Nite nite.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 9:35:22 PM >

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:39:05 PM

Powergamz1

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Let me see if get it... because we sure wouldn't want to misunderstand you, now would we?

Based on pure repetition:

The brown skinned pussy can be safely lied about, because the dirty pussy must have attacked first despite all evidence to the contrary. So being a pussy, he doesn't deserve a fair trial... because he's a pussy.

Everyone with a gun is a pussy, no exception. Cops are pussies. Bank guards are pussies. Our military are all pussies. Rape/mugging/stalking/abuse victims who arm themselves are all pussies... whether they have pussies or not. From behind the safety of your keyboard, everyone but you is a pussy.

That about cover it, or did I miss some of your pussies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Pardon me for being 'old school' here, but back in the day an attacker did not have the 'right' of self defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

And I didn't even speak of any laws, but you, my good friend, have nevertheless pointed out that I lied about something I never even mentioned.

That's what friends are for.

Do tell... never mentioned any laws, when (falsely) saying that there was no right to self defense? Suuuuuuuure....

Yeah, I get it, calm down.

If I attack you, and you defend yourself in the process, then I have the right to shoot you, for defending yourself against my attack, because I'm defending myself against your defense which is now an attack, so I can now 'stand my ground' against your defense of my attack, which is now all of a sudden your attack, and then ...

Easy peasy, I get it.

Calm down, man.

Here, lemmie give you a Howitzer.

Sleep easy now, and just ignore my slimy thoughts. Think only of your pure, clean thoughts.

Nite nite.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:42:14 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:46:47 PM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
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"...practicing law in Bexar County Texas", as I recall.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 9:47:35 PM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

grins... that was my favorite... I thought this thread needed some lightening up.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:05:07 PM

Edwynn

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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

... because the dirty pussy must have attacked first despite all evidence to the contrary.

There is no certifiable evidence as to who struck whom first. There is, however, indisputable evidence that the armed chickenshit pussy instigated the whole affair, which resulted in death, however minimal that outcome is to you.

quote:

So being a pussy, he doesn't deserve a fair trial... because he's a pussy.

Au Contraire. I think it's good for all the world to see what a chickenshit GZ is and always has been, so that we now know better to disarm future likewise nutjobs, before they kill another teenager. As I've made plain, on several occasions, I don't care about the actual verdict, being that the murder still happened, regardless.

quote:

Cops are pussies. Bank guards are pussies. Our military are all pussies. Rape/mugging/stalking/abuse victims who arm themselves are all pussies... whether they have pussies or not. From behind the safety of your keyboard, everyone but you is a pussy.

Was Zimmerman a cop? a bank guard? a soldier? a potential rape victim?

Do any of the above go about stalking people?

If the cops or soldiers have any legitimate business, they get to it right away, from my experience.

I have never been stalked by any legitimate 'person in authority.' Harassed? On one or two occasions.

Stalked by any other than a thug?

Never.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/12/2013 10:09:31 PM >

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:16:28 PM

tazzygirl

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~FR

If Trayvon had been a woman, would people feel differently?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:19:16 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
~FR

If Trayvon had been a woman, would people feel differently?

BINGO!
*If he had been ANYONE but a young black man.

young white man? especially a well heeled young white man?
young white woman? are you kidding me?
a middle aged or elderly person of any race?

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/12/2013 10:28:42 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:28:10 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
There is, however, indisputable evidence that the armed chickenshit pussy instigated the whole affair, which resulted in death, however minimal that outcome is to you.

and the armed chickenshit pussy instigator has been the initiator of altercations in the past.. the undercover cop he assaulted- he started that one.. then there is the drunk woman that he grabbed and threw- he started that one.. then there is the restraining order his ex-girlfriend applied for- those are against the attacker of the victim.. That is the pattern with the armed chickenshit pussy instigator.. so no fn way I believe his chickenshit lying fabrication of a story..

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:33:04 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
~FR

If Trayvon had been a woman, would people feel differently?

BINGO!
*If he had been ANYONE but a young black man.

young white man? especially a well heeled young white man?
young white woman? are you kidding me?
a middle aged or elderly person of any race?

I can imagine anyone feeling scared at being followed....

I dont think this was racially motivated in that I dont think Z went looking for a young black male to target. Know what I mean?

However, as a woman, I would be terrified knowing someone was following me. Self defense training and I can down a man by breaking his nose.... I might even be tempted to attack him as he laid there, I would be the one screaming for help

Why is all that so implausible?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:33:35 PM

MasterCaneman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Shall we have a vote? All those who have a 17 year old, or have done so, please note down here just how mature and balanced said kid is/was, and how much he/she absolutely deserved to be treated like a worldly-wise adult. Please specifically point out how said 17 year old was always rational, smooth and sophisticated in the face of any odd or unusual action or reaction by any full adult around him/her -self.

Peon, you know better than this. They will all rush in claiming how they were in the military at 17 and making wordly decisions.

Uh, hate to say it, Tazzy, but I joined the Army Reserves when I was 17. I'm pretty sure I wasn't making worldly decisions, but they did let me have a real nifty M-16A1. With ammunition and everything. And a bunch of other cool stuff normal people don't get to play with.

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The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:37:30 PM

BamaD

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I have said repeatedly that Martin would also have a good self defense plea

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/12/2013 10:38:39 PM

Marini

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Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

I dont think this was racially motivated in that I dont think Z went looking for a young black male to target. Know what I mean?

Thanks tazzy, I totally believe Trayvon was targeted.
seriously
he was guility of wwb, {walking while black} around the neighborhood.

Have we heard stories of Zim chasing other people, in all his days of walking his beat?

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/12/2013 10:40:34 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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