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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:17:03 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
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As to the future, just as a note... the chances of Zimmerman being retried in a Florida criminal courtroom on the same charges (as some of our legal experts here are suggesting), are zero.

The chances of him being tried in a federal courtroom exist, but federal prosecutors are proud of their high conviction rate, and if the months that the FBI has been poring over the evidence didn't produce anything that would have helped the state prosecution, it seems quite unlikely for a federal one. The issue remains the same... the only person who knows what really happened, can't be compelled to testify, and those who are willing to testify, hurt the prosecution. Changing the charges to federal ones, isn't going to alter that. And since Zimmerman acted alone, there can't even be a conspiracy charge (much easier to win).

The level of proof is lower in a civil case, but the level of reasonableness isn't. So the same problem exists... the witnesses don't make the case. Still, it could happen, and there could be a settlement.

The notion of immunity that O'Mara mentions is a gimme in a SYG hearing, harder to leverage here.

A ban on future earnings sounds like something straight out of Nancy Grace.


Zimmerman suing the press? Good luck, except for the faked 'N' word report.. and they cut some people loose to dodge liability... the fired employees won't have squat to sue for.
He might get some smaller amount under the table to shut him up.


_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 721
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:19:40 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
And he should have no trouble with it either. The fun lawsuits will George suing NBC, Ben Crump, Natalie Jackson, etc. for defamation.

Zimmerman has no chance of winning a defamation suit against any media outlet. No attorney would even take the case unless Zimmerman paid him by the hour up front.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 722
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:20:12 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

O'Mara just said if they try and sue George, he will seek and will get immunity from civil prosecution.

And he should have no trouble with it either. The fun lawsuits will George suing NBC, Ben Crump, Natalie Jackson, etc. for defamation.



yep made the call way back on fargs first thread. complete fucking waste of time.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 723
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:21:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
And he should have no trouble with it either. The fun lawsuits will George suing NBC, Ben Crump, Natalie Jackson, etc. for defamation.

Zimmerman has no chance of winning a defamation suit against any media outlet. No attorney would even take the case unless Zimmerman paid him by the hour up front.



yeh thats why you gotta go in pro se.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 724
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:23:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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That was when they are saying the defense was SYG... if he had been found not guilty under that law, Z would have immunity from civil prosecution. He didnt.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 725
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:24:16 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
And he should have no trouble with it either. The fun lawsuits will George suing NBC, Ben Crump, Natalie Jackson, etc. for defamation.

Zimmerman has no chance of winning a defamation suit against any media outlet. No attorney would even take the case unless Zimmerman paid him by the hour up front.


The Beasley Firm has already taken the case and filed suit vs. NBC. This firm has won over 2 billion in damages for its clients.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 726
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:25:38 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

As to the future, just as a note... the chances of Zimmerman being retried in a Florida criminal courtroom on the same charges (as some of our legal experts here are suggesting), are zero.

The chances of him being tried in a federal courtroom exist, but federal prosecutors are proud of their high conviction rate, and if the months that the FBI has been poring over the evidence didn't produce anything that would have helped the state prosecution, it seems quite unlikely for a federal one. The issue remains the same... the only person who knows what really happened, can't be compelled to testify, and those who are willing to testify, hurt the prosecution. Changing the charges to federal ones, isn't going to alter that. And since Zimmerman acted alone, there can't even be a conspiracy charge (much easier to win).

The level of proof is lower in a civil case, but the level of reasonableness isn't. So the same problem exists... the witnesses don't make the case. Still, it could happen, and there could be a settlement.

The notion of immunity that O'Mara mentions is a gimme in a SYG hearing, harder to leverage here.

A ban on future earnings sounds like something straight out of Nancy Grace.


Zimmerman suing the press? Good luck, except for the faked 'N' word report.. and they cut some people loose to dodge liability... the fired employees won't have squat to sue for.
He might get some smaller amount under the table to shut him up.




all news casts are delayed, they had plenty of time to do edits.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 727
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:26:28 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Saw this on Facebook and found it touching:

How cool would it be to live in a world where George Zimmerman offered Trayvon Martin a ride home to get him out of the rain that night. - best tweet of the night

Have since learned that the tweet came from Tom Crabtree, Tight End #84 for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 728
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:30:35 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
I hope to see those outraged by this verdict directing their anger where it belongs…Tallahassee. A mass protest, the circulation of a petition, and the voting boot next election cycle should be where this anger would do the most good.

Rioting and lawlessness will just separate people all the more and perhaps reinforce stereotypes when we see rioters loading flat screen televisions from broken storefront windows. What a fucking mess the state legislature has gotten themselves in.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 729
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:33:23 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
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I know this thread is unmoderated, but do you have to continually make other people look bad by attacking them with facts like that? It really seems to upset them.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
And he should have no trouble with it either. The fun lawsuits will George suing NBC, Ben Crump, Natalie Jackson, etc. for defamation.

Zimmerman has no chance of winning a defamation suit against any media outlet. No attorney would even take the case unless Zimmerman paid him by the hour up front.


The Beasley Firm has already taken the case and filed suit vs. NBC. This firm has won over 2 billion in damages for its clients.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 730
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:35:00 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline
A petition to do what? Secede from the USA? Pass some knee-jerk unconstitutional law that will cost the state more billions in court before losing? There isn't a single state in the union that would have given substantially different jury instructions, or handled this case in any significantly different manner.




quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I hope to see those outraged by this verdict directing their anger where it belongs…Tallahassee. A mass protest, the circulation of a petition, and the voting boot next election cycle should be where this anger would do the most good.

Rioting and lawlessness will just separate people all the more and perhaps reinforce stereotypes when we see rioters loading flat screen televisions from broken storefront windows. What a fucking mess the state legislature has gotten themselves in.

Butch



< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 7/13/2013 9:36:36 PM >


_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 731
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:39:50 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
I would think amending the Florida Statutes that enabled this mess would be a start... Then I'd do my best to kick the radicals that passed the law from office and get responsible legislatures to govern the state.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 732
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:41:30 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would think amending the Florida Statutes that enabled this mess would be a start... Then I'd do my best to kick the radicals that passed the law from office and get responsible legislatures to govern the state.

Butch


Yeah that's it. Continue the crusade to make citizens into ready-made victims for thugs everywhere.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 733
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:43:12 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
And he should have no trouble with it either. The fun lawsuits will George suing NBC, Ben Crump, Natalie Jackson, etc. for defamation.

Zimmerman has no chance of winning a defamation suit against any media outlet. No attorney would even take the case unless Zimmerman paid him by the hour up front.


The Beasley Firm has already taken the case and filed suit vs. NBC. This firm has won over 2 billion in damages for its clients.

American defamation law requires an impossible standard when the plaintiff is a public figure. They may get a nuisance settlement out of Universal as it would be cheaper than the trial but they have no hope if it goes to trial. I'd be shocked if a judge even let it get past summary judgment.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 734
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:46:31 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would think amending the Florida Statutes that enabled this mess would be a start... Then I'd do my best to kick the radicals that passed the law from office and get responsible legislatures to govern the state.

Butch

That could be complicated. I've not yet found a statute changing self defense from an affirmative defense into something where the burden remains on the prosecution. As near as I can tell that is an appellate decision. That might be an awfully technical point to campaign on changing.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 735
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:48:04 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would think amending the Florida Statutes that enabled this mess would be a start... Then I'd do my best to kick the radicals that passed the law from office and get responsible legislatures to govern the state.

Butch


Yeah that's it. Continue the crusade to make citizens into ready-made victims for thugs everywhere.

It's sort of amazing that when violent crime was much more common and concealed carry was illegal almost universally that anyone survived.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 736
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:48:18 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline
The Florida statues on self defense were written decades ago, to match the US Supreme Court's ruling setting the new standard... 'a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm'. That's the standard the jury was told to apply. Not SYG, not child abuse, not dueling, not any of the media's hype.

Those legislators aren't there any more, how is kicking out the current group and passing an unconstitutional law from a mob going to help?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would think amending the Florida Statutes that enabled this mess would be a start... Then I'd do my best to kick the radicals that passed the law from office and get responsible legislatures to govern the state.

Butch



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 737
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:54:42 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The Florida statues on self defense were written decades ago, to match the US Supreme Court's ruling setting the new standard... 'a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm'. That's the standard the jury was told to apply. Not SYG, not child abuse, not dueling, not any of the media's hype.

Those legislators aren't there any more, how is kicking out the current group and passing an unconstitutional law from a mob going to help?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would think amending the Florida Statutes that enabled this mess would be a start... Then I'd do my best to kick the radicals that passed the law from office and get responsible legislatures to govern the state.

Butch



It would make them feel better. And the goal for some was to undermine self defense all along.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 738
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:56:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
How is a petition and an election mob rule? If you don't like a law you change it through the voting boot and the majority will rule. Florida's version of stand your ground goes beyond a vehicle or residence and this was directly a contributing factor in this young mans unnecessary death.

Zimmerman was found not guilty and it was the correct verdict under the circumstances of verifiable evidence but it does not make it right or moral.

I am just saying the anger should be directed where it will do some good and not in rioting.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 739
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/13/2013 9:58:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How is a petition and an election mob rule? If you don't like a law you change it through the voting boot and the majority will rule. Florida's version of stand your ground goes beyond a vehicle or residence and this was directly a contributing factor in this young mans unnecessary death.

Zimmerman was found not guilty and it was the correct verdict under the circumstances of verifiable evidence but it does not make it right or moral.

I am just saying the anger should be directed where it will do some good and not in rioting.

Butch

How far back do you want to move self defense
Remember the jury determined that Zimmerman had reasonable fear of injury or death.
Does a person have to be shot before they can defend themselves?
You can't retreat with someone on top of you so that wouldn't help.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/13/2013 10:02:21 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 740
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