RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 9:53:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Its doubtful, as shown by many posters on this topic, its only going to encourage bravado and gun slinging morons feeling they are entitled to shoot people without prosecution. I agree, it is doubtful.

Kirata -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 9:54:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim Last I knew Zimmerman was and always has been Hispanic, not white. Hispanics themselves seem to differ on the issue. On the 2010 Census, about half of those who identified themselves as of Hispanic origin checked the box for "white" when asked their race, but over a third chose "other" (with the remainder being of mixed race). K.

Lucylastic -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 9:56:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Its doubtful, as shown by many posters on this topic, its only going to encourage bravado and gun slinging morons feeling they are entitled to shoot people without prosecution. I agree, it is doubtful. ok marking this in my diary...we actually agree on something....bloody hell[:D]

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 9:56:54 AM)
Every state in the union uses the same standard for self defense trials, following the USSC rulings in Garner, and in Graham. The jury in every state would have gotten essentially the same instructions from the judge... 'a reasonable fear that your life or safety is in imminent danger' authorizes the use of force in self defense. While a self defense claim does impose an additional burden of proof on the defense, there is no state where the defendant is required to perform the impossible task of proving a negative. Transport the same jurors into any courtroom in America, and they would have rendered the same verdict, because in all 50 states, the prosecution still has to overcome that standard using proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The only person who could have given testimony to convict Zimmerman, was Zimmerman, and those who were willing to testify, hurt the prosecution. That's what led to this verdict. quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen This is how bizarre Florida is on the matter. In the rest of the nation, and in other countries that base their laws on English common law, a claim of self defense is an affirmative defense and the burden is on the defendant although at a lower standard of proof than beyond a reasonable doubt. In Florida a self defense claim has to be disproven by the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt which is a nearly impossible standard as this case demonstrates. I thought it was messed up that he could claim self defense and not testify. The state should not have to prove it was not self defense, he should have to prove that it was. Memo to all: don't engage the idiots. Ignore them.

BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:00:29 AM)
My friend I reject this type of thinking... no revolution or war against an established government will be won with Saturday night specials in the hands of the average untrained citizen...and to believe conceal and carry is a deterrent against a democratically elected government is foolishness. I am not advocating the repeal of any Constitutional amendment...just the wise and responsible regulation of it. Don't repeal it just regulate it out of relevance.

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:03:25 AM)
That's because Hispanic is a broad term meaning 'having ancestry in any Spanish speaking country'. If that country is Spain, an Hispanic person can have blond or red hair, and blue eyes, and pale skin. In Zimmerman's case, his ancestry goes from Peru, to Africa, hence his brown skin, and the even darker skin of his maternal lineage. He's as Hispanic as Emilio Estevez, but no more 'white' than President Obama. quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim Last I knew Zimmerman was and always has been Hispanic, not white. Hispanics themselves seem to differ on the issue. On the 2010 Census, about half of those who identified themselves as of Hispanic origin checked the box for "white" when asked their race, but over a third chose "other" (with the remainder being of mixed race). K.

BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:03:57 AM)
If this story is true (the media does make an occasional mistake) it is an absolute travesty.

Kirata -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:06:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 He's as Hispanic as Emilio Estevez, but no more 'white' than President Obama. Who is half white... or a white black, as the race hucksters might say. [:D] K.

Lucylastic -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:07:29 AM)
It is true Bama.... It was all over the news last year

kdsub -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:09:20 AM)
quote: Don't repeal it just regulate it out of relevance If it is the will of the people yes... but we know this is not the case...What was the will, ignored by our legislature, was better background checks. But of course this would have had little or no affect on this case so I will not hijack the thread further. Butch

BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:09:54 AM)
Then it is a travesty .

Lucylastic -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:14:00 AM)
there is a lot of it about all over the place

vincentML -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:14:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim Last I knew Zimmerman was and always has been Hispanic, not white. Hispanics themselves seem to differ on the issue. On the 2010 Census, about half of those who identified themselves as of Hispanic origin checked the box for "white" when asked their race, but over a third chose "other" (with the remainder being of mixed race). K. Perhaps that is because there has been an historic caste system of color, place of birth and, descendancy in Latin America: peninsulares, criollos, mestizo, hidalgos, and indios, varying perhaps from nation and region on the southern continent.

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:15:37 AM)
The judge followed balancing guidelines on whether those select excerpts might be too inflammatory, versus offering nothing useful. Martin didn't have a gun that night, so texts about wanting a gun would provide nothing in the way of valid evidence. Martin didn't steal anything in the subdivision that night, so rumors about earlier thefts hundreds of miles away, proved nothing relevant to Zimmerman. Whatever evidence of Martin punching people may have existed, was redundant in the face of evidence from that night already supporting the conclusion that he punched Zimmerman. The other stuff about being kicked out of school, etc. Zimmerman had no way of knowing any of that, so it couldn't have influenced his fear for his life claim. We don't really 'know' anything about Martin's character... for all we know, had things ended differently, he could have gone on to become a model citizen, or a gang leader, or anything in between. quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Some of you may recall that President Obama, who identifies as a black man, felt particularly close to this case because if he had a son, that son would have been a useless piece of shit like Trayvon Martin. This sentence actually tells us much more about your character than about Trayvon Martin's. Your comment actually tells us you can't handle the truth about Trayvon Martin's character, which the Judge felt would be so detrimental to the prosecution's case that she precluded the jury from learning about it during the trial.

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:16:48 AM)
[;)] quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 He's as Hispanic as Emilio Estevez, but no more 'white' than President Obama. Who is half white... or a white black, as the race hucksters might say. [:D] K.

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:19:21 AM)
What I say, is that you've been told before, that 'race baiting' is what you are doing. quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Wow, the riots are horrible so far! Wow, the media and race-baiter uproar about the number of people recently shot and wounded/killed in Chicago, including children, has been deafening thus far! Chicago Weekend Shootings: Four Dead Among The 26 Shot Around The City In Weekend Gun Violence Weekend violence leaves 9 dead, 47 shot 4 Dead, 31 Wounded In Shootings This Weekend 49 Shot In Chicago During Weekend Of Violence, Two Children Injuried What's that you say? It's all been blacks shooting and wounding/killing blacks, so move along there's nothing to see here ? Oh, I see. Okay.

kdsub -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:20:52 AM)
PS… Just a note to the gracious moderators on CM…see unmoderated can work. A few how dare you’s along with some fuck you’s and cunts has not brought discussion and the world to an end…[sm=stickineye.gif]

Kirata -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:24:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Then it is a travesty . The Florida House brought a bill (HB 1047) "providing that the defensive display of a weapon or firearm, including the discharge of a firearm for the purpose of a warning shot, does not constitute the use of deadly force" and "providing immunity from prosecution for persons acting in defense of life, home, and property from violent attack or the threat of violent attack through certain displays of or uses of force." But when it went to the Senate (SB 1446) it died in the Criminal Justice committee and never saw a vote. K.

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:25:48 AM)
WTF??? Have you bothered to look at a single fact about this case? Where in the police reports from that night does it say a word about 'John Doe'? They knew it was Trayvon Martin immediately, what they didn't know was how to reach his father, who wasn't at his Miami address that weekend. And the lie that the Sanford PD were anything other than exhaustive in their collection of evidence has been disproven by the amount of it that was used at trial. Where did all those crime scene photos and evidence bags (again from that night) come from if the police just walked away and didn't do their jobs? quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml While I'm personally pretty sure that Zimmerman is a crazy murdering bastard - If properly directed by a judge on the question of "reasonable doubt" I'd have to acquit. I think that is pretty much how the majority of the public feel.. I feel cuz Martin didnt have any ID so he was a John Doe, that the cops were sloppy with their investigation right at the start.. that continued thru the entire case from not enough evidence to get a solid conviction up to including to the Prosecution not objecting to "testimony" when they should have.. jmo While Martin's family wanted Zimmy charged, go to trial and for them to "find the truth of what happened" that night (their words), I dont believe if there just isnt enough evidence, that you can expect the system to charge everyone.. Perhaps the cops didnt give Martins family enough info on what happened that night & showed them the actual evidence they had and reasons why it wasnt enough, I dont know.. perhaps the family would have still wanted charges and a trial.. but lots of other families whose loved one gets killed dont get that if there isnt enough solid evidence.. otoh, Zimmy should not get off scot free either, an unarmed kid is dead.. so I feel no sympathy for him in the situation he finds himself in.. and boohoo that it wont be easy for him to find a job.. golly gee, he has so many supporters, and donations from them that there must be one out there willing to hire him (& take the risk of being sued if he assaults someone doing that job).. If his supports think so highly of Zimmy, let them find him a job.. [:D] I really hope I never hear about Zimmy after this but I sorta doubt it.. somehow trouble seems to follow him.. and given how crazy it is here, he might end up as a contestant on tv's "Biggest Loser".. well,.. maybe not that reality show since he is suing NBC! [:D] well,... I have work to do so I have to run.. [:)]

Brisco804 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/14/2013 10:36:52 AM)
Many people continue to bring up Florida v. Marissa Alexander to demonstrate that there is prejudice in the way justice is meted out. A few things should be considered: Stand your Ground or the "Castle Doctrine" was used as the defense in FL v. Marissa Alexander. It was NOT used in FL v. Zimmerman. Marissa Alexander left the scene of the threat, retrieved her gun from a place she would have been safe, and then returned to the location of her antagonist to fire the warning shots. This nullifies SYG in that SYG dictates that you are not required to make an attempt to vacate as a means of defense prior to exercising deadly force. It does not mean you can go find a place you know there is an expectation you will be in danger and then defy those that would cause you harm. SYG is a defense for deadly force...not warning shots. In FL v. Zimmerman, Defense argued on the basis of self-defense...successfully. The judge should thank her gods that it was, because the appeal would have damaged her badly. You may see the only convictions from this case coming from the State's Attorney's office. These two cases share NO RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER, except that there was a gun involved, they both occurred in the 65,755 square miles that make up Florida, and at least one person involved was black. That is pretty thin. Use better examples people.

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