RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 3:39:42 PM)
FR- CNN’s Piers Morgan is scheduled to interview [Rachel Jeantel] Monday night during his 9 p.m. ET program, according to one of his producers who made the announcement on Twitter Of course, some may say such as "asswipe" to this announcement I post as it comes from... wait for it... . . . The Blaze.

vincentML -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 3:40:30 PM)
quote: I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about. Errmmm . . I didn't see any mention of personality types in the article. Only two unsupported propositions: 1) "elevates macho over the need to preserve life." 2) “I think these vigilante community groups have to be disarmed,” he said. “I don’t think Zimmerman should have been allowed to have a gun. “He should have been walking around with a walkie-talkie and calling the police,” he said. Neither of these propositions is supported by evidence from the trial or by any sociological research put forward. Life is full of macho without guns. Plenty of it in sports, movies, and video games. Community groups do not carry guns as a rule. Zimmerman was not patroling; he was off to the store.

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 3:41:23 PM)
Sanford seems to be a property crime kind of place, but going into O-Town is a different story... http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Orlando-Florida.html quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about. Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, etc. And when he did that, he could have possibly been exposed to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon. Not everyone with a CCW is a drooling, maniacal, rabid racist itching to cap a minority, you know.

tj444 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 3:46:34 PM)
I was walking down the street recently.. behind an old grey-haired dude & he had a gun in a holster in the same spot Zimmy did, his lower back.. this dude had his jacket off and over his arm cuz it was really hot out.. I looked at the gun as I walked behind him and thought to myself- what is stopping someone from grabbing the gun from behind and shooting the dude in the back with his own gun? I wondered if that thought ever crossed the dude's mind.. seemed to me he was putting himself at more risk, not less.. quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Well the advantage of the Kel Tec 's small size is that it is much easier to have with you more often. I suspect that whatever Zimmerman bought on bail (I can't remember the brand or model, as I'm not a gun guy, but the store told Zimmerman it was his best choice.... powerful, higher capacity). As far as 'the one you are comfortable with', practice should help with that in almost any model.

MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 3:51:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I was walking down the street recently.. behind an old grey-haired dude & he had a gun in a holster in the same spot Zimmy did, his lower back.. this dude had his jacket off and over his arm cuz it was really hot out.. I looked at the gun as I walked behind him and thought to myself- what is stopping someone from grabbing the gun from behind and shooting the dude in the back with his own gun? I wondered if that thought ever crossed the dude's mind.. seemed to me he was putting himself at more risk, not less.. Depends a lot on the holster. I carry mine the same way, and it's not as easy as you'd think to do that.

tj444 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:01:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I was walking down the street recently.. behind an old grey-haired dude & he had a gun in a holster in the same spot Zimmy did, his lower back.. this dude had his jacket off and over his arm cuz it was really hot out.. I looked at the gun as I walked behind him and thought to myself- what is stopping someone from grabbing the gun from behind and shooting the dude in the back with his own gun? I wondered if that thought ever crossed the dude's mind.. seemed to me he was putting himself at more risk, not less.. Depends a lot on the holster. I carry mine the same way, and it's not as easy as you'd think to do that. well that's interesting.. so if Martin was on top of Zimmy with his knees up at his armpits and getting a gun outta a holster like that isnt easy.. how did Zimmy do that? or did Zimmy already have the gun out before or during the fight? The prosecutors said today in an interview they believe Zimmy had the gun out before he said he did, which is why Martin was screaming.. Yes, the trial is over and whatever the truth is, Zimmy is free and clear.. (this time)..

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:01:43 PM)
People who choose to (or are paid to) carry guns have choices to make. Wear a jacket year round, keep it on when sweltering, or display the gun as Townes van Zandt sang 'For all the honest world to feel...' There is a whole marketplace of holsters that make it not so easy to just walk up and grab the gun, while allowing the owner to deploy it in a hurry. Police are given some level of training in how to retain their weapons against such attempts from any direction, and many places that offer CCW have something along those lines as an additional (cost) course.. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I was walking down the street recently.. behind an old grey-haired dude & he had a gun in a holster in the same spot Zimmy did, his lower back.. this dude had his jacket off and over his arm cuz it was really hot out.. I looked at the gun as I walked behind him and thought to myself- what is stopping someone from grabbing the gun from behind and shooting the dude in the back with his own gun? I wondered if that thought ever crossed the dude's mind.. seemed to me he was putting himself at more risk, not less.. quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 Well the advantage of the Kel Tec 's small size is that it is much easier to have with you more often. I suspect that whatever Zimmerman bought on bail (I can't remember the brand or model, as I'm not a gun guy, but the store told Zimmerman it was his best choice.... powerful, higher capacity). As far as 'the one you are comfortable with', practice should help with that in almost any model.

MrBukani -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I was walking down the street recently.. behind an old grey-haired dude & he had a gun in a holster in the same spot Zimmy did, his lower back.. this dude had his jacket off and over his arm cuz it was really hot out.. I looked at the gun as I walked behind him and thought to myself- what is stopping someone from grabbing the gun from behind and shooting the dude in the back with his own gun? I wondered if that thought ever crossed the dude's mind.. seemed to me he was putting himself at more risk, not less.. Depends a lot on the holster. I carry mine the same way, and it's not as easy as you'd think to do that. Sure it's easy depending on the holster[:D]

Powergamz1 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:05:58 PM)
Again, the design of the holster allows easy draw if your hand is in a certain position... easy for the owner to do, harder for someone else. Not impossible. And there are folks who sell DVDs on how to take away cop's guns and kill them. No idea if any of that was in play that night, but it is entirely possible (as we heard the expert witness testify), for Zimmerman to feel threatened by the impending use of his own gun against him, and still pull it out first. That's the whole point of having those holsters... anticipating just such a scenario. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I was walking down the street recently.. behind an old grey-haired dude & he had a gun in a holster in the same spot Zimmy did, his lower back.. this dude had his jacket off and over his arm cuz it was really hot out.. I looked at the gun as I walked behind him and thought to myself- what is stopping someone from grabbing the gun from behind and shooting the dude in the back with his own gun? I wondered if that thought ever crossed the dude's mind.. seemed to me he was putting himself at more risk, not less.. Depends a lot on the holster. I carry mine the same way, and it's not as easy as you'd think to do that. well that's interesting.. so if Martin was on top of Zimmy with his knees up at his armpits and getting a gun outta a holster like that isnt easy.. how did Zimmy do that? or did Zimmy already have the gun out before or during the fight? The prosecutors said today in an interview they believe Zimmy had the gun out before he said he did, which is why Martin was screaming.. Yes, the trial is over and whatever the truth is, Zimmy is free and clear.. (this time)..

tj444 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:13:45 PM)
FR- wow.. and a juror already has a book deal on the reasons why they came to their verdict.. man.. that was fast! [;)]

BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:17:22 PM)
They thought I was Texan

BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:23:16 PM)
The effective handgun is the one you have with you at the time. _____________________________The most effective handgun is the one you are comfortable with. The best handgun is the one you have with you.

Kana -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:37:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The effective handgun is the one you have with you at the time. _____________________________The most effective handgun is the one you are comfortable with. The best handgun is the one you have with you. And are willing to use. Cuz this is key here.If you have a handgun and carry it,you damn well better be ready to pull the trigger should an altercation arise,because if not,there's a large chance that shits getting taken from you and shoved up your ass. That's the risk inherent in carrying a weapon. Not just guns either,but any kind

DomKen -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:42:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about. Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, etc. And when he did that, he could have possibly been exposed to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon. Not everyone with a CCW is a drooling, maniacal, rabid racist itching to cap a minority, you know. But the evidence in this case shows Zimmerman was a cop wannabe. That is pretty much the definition of nutbar who shouldn't have a gun.

DomKen -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:44:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about. Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, entertainment. And when you do that, you just may have to expose yourself to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon. yabbut I thought the story was that Zimmy got it for the less-than desirable dogs in his subdivision.. not cuz of less-than desirable people.. [8\|] eta- Zimmy said he was on his way to shop at Target.. I thought all the less-than desirable people shopped at Walmart! [;)] IIRC, he originally wanted to use pepper spray for those, but was advised to use a firearm. And getting a CCW just for dogs is ludicrous, in my opinion. I only carry because I live amongst the most dangerous animal on Earth-my fellow man. But you may have a point about Walmart there... Can you imagine pulling that piece of shit pistol from a concealed carry holster while an actual dangerous dog is charging you? Do you think you could actually stop the dog before it bit without getting very lucky?

Kana -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:45:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about. Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, etc. And when he did that, he could have possibly been exposed to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon. Not everyone with a CCW is a drooling, maniacal, rabid racist itching to cap a minority, you know. But the evidence in this case shows Zimmerman was a cop wannabe. That is pretty much the definition of nutbar who shouldn't have a gun. Huh? Wanting to be a Police Officer makes one a "nutbar." Since when? And,as has been mentioned many times previously,Z bought a gun on police advice! They recommended he do it. This ain't some wingnut.This is a cat who thought seriously about the decision,sought freaking law enforcement advice and feedback,and took it. How many gun owners can say they did the same? ETA-Someone a while back asked a question or two for my crime scene friend.Here's the answers I received: -Sweeping the neighborhood is usually the job of the lead detective and police.It's not the Crime Scene's job. Same thing for ID'ing the body. That's on the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.It's not a CSI responsibility. That said, she did say that not sweeping quickly was a big error,albiet on the cops, not CSI, but that forensically,other than wrapping the body in plastic, the major error was not swabbing the hands for contact DNA at the scene-she says the rain wouldn't have contaminated the evidence despite what the CSI people down there claim. She also thinks they fucked up the PR aspects of the case pretty bad,gave themselves a black eye. Hope that helps...

Politesub53 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:45:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Even some of the Non-biased news sources have covertly printed racist crap. Here is what happened, a half white, half cuban 29 yea old shot a 100% African American and killed him Seems that everyone jumped on the 1/2 white, did a quick genetic modification of Zimmerman, took out the cuban genetic information, and thus he is now 100% white, Praise be to Monsanto! The whole race question is, in my opinion, manufactured by the media. In truth both the shooter and victim were minorities. I fully agree Jeff. I was on about the content of a specific post Cloudboy referred to though.

DomKen -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 4:53:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about. Errmmm . . I didn't see any mention of personality types in the article. Only two unsupported propositions: 1) "elevates macho over the need to preserve life." 2) “I think these vigilante community groups have to be disarmed,” he said. “I don’t think Zimmerman should have been allowed to have a gun. “He should have been walking around with a walkie-talkie and calling the police,” he said. Neither of these propositions is supported by evidence from the trial or by any sociological research put forward. Life is full of macho without guns. Plenty of it in sports, movies, and video games. Community groups do not carry guns as a rule. Zimmerman was not patroling; he was off to the store. Actually it is. Zimmerman had been under a restraining order related to domestic violence, which is one of the few disqualifying conditions in Florida. That right there should have, in a sane state, required him to at least get investigated or examined before getting the permit. Now add on the fact that he was calling the police a lot, talk to cops about what that generally means. Then you have the fact that he claimed to be NW but in a situation where he chose to act well beyond the bounds of NW he left his vehicle and pursued a person he believed to a criminal. Did he consider for one second that the "robber" he was tailing might be armed? That the police dispatcher had clearly said to not do so? He was emboldened because he was carrying. That is exactly the wrong sort to even own a firearm.

BamaD -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:01:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The effective handgun is the one you have with you at the time. _____________________________The most effective handgun is the one you are comfortable with. The best handgun is the one you have with you. And are willing to use. Cuz this is key here.If you have a handgun and carry it,you damn well better be ready to pull the trigger should an altercation arise,because if not,there's a large chance that shits getting taken from you and shoved up your ass. That's the risk inherent in carrying a weapon. Not just guns either,but any kind The risk anytime you decide to fight back. Once you do you can't change your mind.

DomKen -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/15/2013 5:03:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I think the fact that Zimmerman lived in a middle class subdivision with no history of violence yet he routinely carried a weapon is indicative of the personality type Dershowitz was talking about. Yeah, but he probably didn't spend 24/7 in that subdivision. He just may have had to go outside for things like groceries, work, etc. And when he did that, he could have possibly been exposed to less-than-desirable areas and people, hence the weapon. Not everyone with a CCW is a drooling, maniacal, rabid racist itching to cap a minority, you know. But the evidence in this case shows Zimmerman was a cop wannabe. That is pretty much the definition of nutbar who shouldn't have a gun. Huh? Wanting to be a Police Officer makes one a "nutbar." Since when? When a guy applies to a police force and fails, usually for failing the polygraph or the psych eval and keeps trying and/or starts acting like cop they are called a wannabe. They are tolerated by a few officers but most of the rest hate the guys cause they do stupid shit that causes the officers or themselves problems. that is what Zimmerman was. quote: And,as has been mentioned many times previously,Z bought a gun on police advice! They recommended he do it. This ain't some wingnut.This is a cat who thought seriously about the decision,sought freaking law enforcement advice and feedback,and took it. How many gun owners can say they did the same? Yes the guy is a wingnut. To start with I strongly doubt a 9mm short pistol carried on the back of the hip is going to be drawable and deadly against a dog that is actually attacking. He concealed carried to feel like a cop. quote: ETA-Someone a while back asked a question or two for my crime scene friend.Here's the answers I received: -Sweeping the neighborhood is usually the job of the lead detective and police.It's not the Crime Scene's job. Same thing for ID'ing the body. That's on the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.It's not a CSI responsibility. That said, she did say that not sweeping quickly was a big error,albiet on the cops, not CSI, but that forensically,other than wrapping the body in plastic, the major error was not swabbing the hands for contact DNA at the scene-she says the rain wouldn't have contaminated the evidence despite what the CSI people down there claim. She also thinks they fucked up the PR aspects of the case pretty bad,gave themselves a black eye. Hope that helps... I wasn't blaming the CSI for not doing the canvas but the fact is it shows how little regard the SPD had for a dead young black man who clearly was bound for someplace nearby. Martin's father filed a missing persons report and that was when he got notified.

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