RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN

RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (Full Version)

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tj444 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:50:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman This may be hard for you to process, seeing as how everyone assumes that Zimmerman is a slavering racist sociopath, but maybe, just maybe, he might have been in shock that he'd just shot and killed another human being? And maybe he wasn't just like "other people" who immediately leaped to aid. His reaction (or lack therof) was probably related to why he didn't pass the psych exam to be a cop. They do try to screen people who don't respond well under pressure and this looks to be the case here. Everyone reacts differently under stress. I do think he is a manipulative psychopath cuz he lacks any feeling and emotion other than feeling sorry for himself.. but imo his reaction (pacing, etc) was more likely related to figuring out how to bolster his story so he could stay outta jail.. taking time to come up with gangsta phrases Martin didnt say like "you gonna die tonight, motherfucker" and Zimmy repeating how he "feared for his life", blah, blah, blah.. as someone that took criminal classes, ya know, he would know he would be taken in for questioning and he wanted to walk out without being charged.. he didnt give a dam about the kid he just shot and was dying on the ground..

MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 8:04:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman This may be hard for you to process, seeing as how everyone assumes that Zimmerman is a slavering racist sociopath, but maybe, just maybe, he might have been in shock that he'd just shot and killed another human being? And maybe he wasn't just like "other people" who immediately leaped to aid. His reaction (or lack therof) was probably related to why he didn't pass the psych exam to be a cop. They do try to screen people who don't respond well under pressure and this looks to be the case here. Everyone reacts differently under stress. I do think he is a manipulative psychopath cuz he lacks any feeling and emotion other than feeling sorry for himself.. but imo his reaction (pacing, etc) was more likely related to figuring out how to bolster his story so he could stay outta jail.. taking time to come up with gangsta phrases Martin didnt say like "you gonna die tonight, motherfucker" and Zimmy repeating how he "feared for his life", blah, blah, blah.. as someone that took criminal classes, ya know, he would know he would be taken in for questioning and he wanted to walk out without being charged.. he didnt give a dam about the kid he just shot and was dying on the ground.. But ultimately, neither of us will ever know what precisely happened that night, will we? There are only two people on this planet who can, and neither of them are talking. The truth always seems to lie somewhere in the middle of a story like this.

kalikshama -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 8:08:02 AM)
FR ~ Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun? Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence. One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right. After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings. ...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind. The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders. It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun.... Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already.

MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 8:18:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place? My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves. i was wondering when I'd get the chance to work in some hate for the Dutch, since they were the first to do it here. [;)] But you're right-many of those same families who used to own slaves are now in power. And many have a (D) after their names. I reiterate my statement that the ones in power use incidents like this to keep the populace off-kilter so they can manipulate their reactions, which in this case appears to be a ploy to garner more votes for their party. They'll rail on about how SYG (which has been repeatedly determined not to be the case here) is inherently racist and reason to gut civil liberties in the name of 'safety'. Safety for whom? All this will mean is, if someone enters your domicile or vehicle with nefarious intent, you won't have a legal right to defend yourself. In effect, it will legitimatize criminal behavior, much like in the UK, where a homeowner shooting an intruder can spend more time in prison than the intruder. There are monsters walking our streets, of all colors, and they're probably looking forward to the day when they can practice their trade with impunity. Conversely, the removal of a person's right to self-defense would justify creating an ever-larger number of police personnel, which begs the question: is this movement intended to be a stepping-stone to a de facto police state?

Phydeaux -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 8:25:36 AM)
Whereas I would say (again) don't ascribe every decision to racism. Especially absent evidence. The Zimmerman case has not led to any significant calls for gun control - imo mostly because we've already had efforts at gun control fail after a much more significant push due to New town. Most of the calls for reform around this case involved SYG or racism. And since there are is no serious momentum to change the florida SYG at the moment, there has been no reason for the NRA to inject itself into the debate. It would be ineffective, and a waste of member's resources. quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama FR ~ Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun? Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence. One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right. After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings. ...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind. The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders. It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun.... Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already.

MasterCaneman -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 8:39:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama FR ~ Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun? Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence. One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right. After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings. ...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind. The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders. It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun.... Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already. I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess.

Raiikun -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 10:09:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama FR ~ Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun? Sometimes, silence is much more revealing than those words actually spoken. Such is the case with respect to how the NRA has responded to the George Zimmerman verdict: with virtual silence. One might expect the NRA to respond to Trayvon Martin's death by calling upon young, black men across this country to arm themselves, since the only way to truly protect oneself from the threat of violence in this country is to own a firearm. To exercise one's Second Amendment right. After all, that's how it's responded to any number of shootings in which white people have been killed in mass shootings. ...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind. The NRA is so dangerous, in part, because of the racist views held by so many of its members, lobbyists and organizational leaders. It's this racism that prevented the NRA from responding to Martin's death by encouraging similar victims of violent crime to go out and get a gun.... Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/16/1224102/-Why-Isn-t-NRA-Arguing-Trayvon-Martin-Tragedy-Could-Have-Been-Averted-if-Only-He-Had-a-Gun?detail=email Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already. I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess. Precisely. It's silly to criticize the NRA for not arguing for illegal gun ownership.

Kana -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 2:37:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Who do you think started the racial discord in the first place? My money's on the folks who imported and owned black slaves. i was wondering when I'd get the chance to work in some hate for the Dutch, since they were the first to do it here. [;)] But you're right-many of those same families who used to own slaves are now in power. And many have a (D) after their names. I reiterate my statement that the ones in power use incidents like this to keep the populace off-kilter so they can manipulate their reactions, which in this case appears to be a ploy to garner more votes for their party. They'll rail on about how SYG (which has been repeatedly determined not to be the case here) is inherently racist and reason to gut civil liberties in the name of 'safety'. Safety for whom? All this will mean is, if someone enters your domicile or vehicle with nefarious intent, you won't have a legal right to defend yourself. In effect, it will legitimatize criminal behavior, much like in the UK, where a homeowner shooting an intruder can spend more time in prison than the intruder. There are monsters walking our streets, of all colors, and they're probably looking forward to the day when they can practice their trade with impunity. Conversely, the removal of a person's right to self-defense would justify creating an ever-larger number of police personnel, which begs the question: is this movement intended to be a stepping-stone to a de facto police state? In some fairness to the Dutch, the Spanish started the slave trade, called it the Asiento. The English and the Dutch, IIRC, won it or took it (I think it was given in treaty but I don't wanna make any claims I'm not sure of and I'm too lazy to google right now.Time is tight) from the Spanish after the armada. quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR Sometimes I am still amazed that 1964 was only 49 years ago. True. In our eagerness to consign racism to the distant past, we often forget that there are folks alive today who went to segregated schools and could not vote in some places. Yeah, my Step-Dad grew up in panhandle Florida in the thirties, back in the separate but equal days. He tells some spooky stories. We may have a long way to go, but Lawdie, we've come a damn long way.

Politesub53 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 4:45:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman Safety for whom? All this will mean is, if someone enters your domicile or vehicle with nefarious intent, you won't have a legal right to defend yourself. In effect, it will legitimatize criminal behavior, much like in the UK, where a homeowner shooting an intruder can spend more time in prison than the intruder. This isnt exactly true. UK homeowners can kill intruders if they felt threatened. They only get jailed if the force they used is shown to be excessive. Tony Martin, a farmer who killed an intruder is a well known case. Martins problem is he shot the intruder in the back as the burglar was trying to flee. IE, it was claimed that when Martin fired the shot he (Martin) wasnt in danger.

PeonForHer -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 4:50:15 PM)
quote: I would say it was because he was only 17 and not legally permitted to own a firearm of any kind, much less a handgun? That'd be my first guess. I guess one of the implicit assumptions of that age-restriction is that adults have an instinct to protect those who are too young to carry firearms. I'm not sure this was much in evidence in Zimmerman's actions towards Martin that night, however.

slvemike4u -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 4:58:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: another procedure(back) scheduled for friday . All the best, Mike! May your recovery be swift and sure and steady. Thank You,it's a simple procedure...but it's also my spine. So there's nothing "simple" about it,I enjoy walking without aid [:)]

Politesub53 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:00:14 PM)
Best wishes Mike my friend...... I hope all goes as smoothly as it can for you.

dcnovice -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:02:34 PM)
quote: Thank You,it's a simple procedure...but it's also my spine. So there's nothing "simple" about it,I enjoy walking without aid I can relate. I needed a cane for several months earlier this year, thanks to spinal stenosis in my neck. I was very glad to shed it.

kdsub -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:11:28 PM)
quote: This isnt exactly true. UK homeowners can kill intruders if they felt threatened. They only get jailed if the force they used is shown to be excessive. You mean killing is not excessive enough? What would be excessive... maybe after killing them tying them up and spanking their dead butts?

Politesub53 -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: This isnt exactly true. UK homeowners can kill intruders if they felt threatened. They only get jailed if the force they used is shown to be excessive. You mean killing is not excessive enough? What would be excessive... maybe after killing them tying them up and spanking their dead butts? FFS Butch put down the Southern Comfort and read my post again. Excessive force is the issue..... death is possibly the consequence BUT the law here revolves around the force used. IE, was it reasonable.

slvemike4u -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:38:23 PM)
Thanks all...[:)]

Kirata -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 5:58:24 PM)
Just for balance: Race plays complex role in Florida's 'stand your ground' law The Times analysis found no obvious bias in how black defendants have been treated: • Whites who invoked the law were charged at the same rate as blacks. • Whites who went to trial were convicted at the same rate as blacks. • In mixed-race cases involving fatalities, the outcomes were similar. Four of the five blacks who killed a white went free; five of the six whites who killed a black went free. • Overall, black defendants went free 66 percent of the time in fatal cases compared to 61 percent for white defendants... The Times analysis does not prove that race caused the disparity between cases with black and white victims. Other factors may be at play. The analysis, for example, found that black victims were more likely to be carrying a weapon when they were killed. They also were more likely than whites to be committing a crime, such as burglary, at the time. K.

PeonForHer -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 6:00:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Thanks all...[:)] Too late for me to say 'Good luck!', Mike? Well, I'm damned well going to say it anyway. Good luck!

kdsub -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 6:02:08 PM)
Mike add my wishes for good luck... I do not know the procedure you are getting but if all fails and you need the fusion surgery I am here to tell you it can work just fine.. I've had L3 thru 5 fused a few years ago and I walk 70 miles a week no problem today. Butch

Lucylastic -> RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN (7/18/2013 6:10:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Thanks all...[:)] Too late for me to say 'Good luck!', Mike? Well, I'm damned well going to say it anyway. Good luck! Me too Mike, was gonna write an email earlier, but my keyboard took a conniption, and well its been a weird day Lots love hon, Ill talk to you soon(phone)

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