RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S.

RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 7:54:49 AM)
This was written by a Canadian... a few exerts are below... might want to read the whole thing. Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists' care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs. Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is. http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427#ixzz2ZDhqewqN Something else to think about.... A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that between 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care.[79] The same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006). Canada has entered the medical tourism field. In comparison to US health costs, medical tourism patients can save 30 to 60 percent on health costs in Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism#United_States And.... A survey conducted by Patients Beyond Borders shows the jaw-dropping differences in cost. In 2011, you could pay $88,000 for a coronary artery bypass graft in the U.S., or $9,500 in India (which saw the highest average savings, at 65 to 90 percent). For a hip replacement in Mexico, it’s $12,500 instead of $33,000 on average in the States. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/medical-tourism-health-tourism-medical-travel_n_1551217.html More people are leaving the US for health care than are coming.

tazzygirl -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 7:55:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: No, actually, I think it was the comment that Canadian yuppies cant wait and flock to the US to see Physicians. Well, it may not be fair but like I said, can you really blame them? When their health is a stake, who the hell is going to wait if they don't have to? And just to satisfy a notion of fairness? I've said it before and I'll say it again... it is easy to have high moral principles when the outcome doesn't affect you. Emergency care doesnt wait.

Lucylastic -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 8:07:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im soooooooooo sorry... Come to the states... you only may have a 6th month wait for a good surgeon here. Arent you just pea-green with jealousy? yeah Ive seen what my pet has to go thru to get his crohns looked at in the past 15 years, and he has good insurance Thank god

Marc2b -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 8:13:57 AM)
quote: This was written by a Canadian... a few exerts are below... might want to read the whole thing. Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists' care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs. Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is. http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427#ixzz2ZDhqewqN Something else to think about.... A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that between 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care.[79] The same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006). Canada has entered the medical tourism field. In comparison to US health costs, medical tourism patients can save 30 to 60 percent on health costs in Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism#United_States And.... A survey conducted by Patients Beyond Borders shows the jaw-dropping differences in cost. In 2011, you could pay $88,000 for a coronary artery bypass graft in the U.S., or $9,500 in India (which saw the highest average savings, at 65 to 90 percent). For a hip replacement in Mexico, it’s $12,500 instead of $33,000 on average in the States. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/medical-tourism-health-tourism-medical-travel_n_1551217.html More people are leaving the US for health care than are coming. See what I mean? You just can't let it go? Nobody got upset that I mentioned all the Canadians in our malls but mention some Canadian at our doctor's office and people get all bent out of shape... like I'm questioning an article of their faith. quote: Emergency care doesnt wait. So? What does that have to do non-emergency care that people don't want to wait for?

tj444 -> RE: Canadian's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 8:35:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss Yep...proud to be an American.... We can't be too bad...there is always a line of people wanting to get into our country and lot of people interviewed around the world state their dream is to live in the US.... Any validation for this moronic drivel? How long is the line? What do they want? Imo, its like believing in Prince Charming sweeping you up off your feet.. imo, there is a fairytale component to the "dream of living in the US".. and yes, it is better than many lessor countries, no doubt about that (but that can be said about most developed countries also).. but it is not all roses as some people find out once they get here & live the experience.. I did not come here (temporarily) with rose colored glasses on but I did find out certain things were much worse than even I expected (mindboggling bureacracy, unreasonable laws, gridlock politics, unequal justice, corruption, inhumanity in certain areas, etc.. oh, and a big one- greed).. People come here hoping for a better life for themselves and their family, some find it, some dont..

tj444 -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 9:01:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b I didn't say anything about Canadian and European healthcare service, propaganda, or or American healthcare profiteers. All I know is that it is not uncommon to see Canadian licence plates in the parking lots of our doctor's offices. If that demonstrates some flaw in Canada's system then it does... knee jerk complaints about corporate propaganda won't solve the problem. If it is just Canada's rich yuppies well, can you blame them? Who want's to wait a couple of weeks when your health is at stake? If the middle class and the poor have no choice but to wait, again, that just demonstrates a flaw in the system that needs to be solved. it depends on what healthcare they are seeking.. remember, there are procedures that are not covered by Canada's health care system.. you know, optional stuff like cosmetic surgery, dental, Lasik, various other things like that.. I have scoliosis and there is a treatment (Schroth method) invented by a someone in Germany but there are very few practitioners of that treatment/technique in north america.. Canada has only 1/10th the population of the US so of course, Canada has 1/10th the number of doctors the US has.. it is extremely hard to find someone knowledgeable in the Schroth method in the US.. so trying to find someone in Canada (particularly western Canada) is pretty impossible.. and I know of some US doctors have invented their own special cosmetic surgery techniques.. so if the specific doctor/treatment you are seeking happens to be in the US, then that is where you go.. (Americans also go to Canada for stuff like Lasik treatments, etc).. its medical tourism.. That said, there are some bottlenecks (in Canada), in particular for seniors for things like knee replacement.. cuz older people are living longer so there are more of them and more need certain procedures.. Canada's system is not perfect but it serves most Canadians pretty well.. and if you have an emergency situation like a heart attack, etc then you get the care you need right now.. and yes, just as in the US, if you have the bucks, you have more choices open to you..

graceadieu -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 9:23:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b Who want's to wait a couple of weeks when your health is at stake? If the middle class and the poor have no choice but to wait, again, that just demonstrates a flaw in the system that needs to be solved. I would love to find a doctor in the US where I didn't have to wait a couple of weeks for non-urgent care. Where are these doctors?

graceadieu -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 9:27:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im soooooooooo sorry... Come to the states... you only may have a 6th month wait for a good surgeon here. Arent you just pea-green with jealousy? Right? My dad is dead because he had to wait 3 months to have the tumor in his pancreas removed, and it turned out to have metastasized in that time . If he could've gotten it out immediately, like people like to say you can get in the US (but actually can't unless you're rich), he'd probably still be alive.

Marc2b -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 11:08:27 AM)
quote: it depends on what healthcare they are seeking.. remember, there are procedures that are not covered by Canada's health care system.. you know, optional stuff like cosmetic surgery, dental, Lasik, various other things like that.. I have scoliosis and there is a treatment (Schroth method) invented by a someone in Germany but there are very few practitioners of that treatment/technique in north america.. Canada has only 1/10th the population of the US so of course, Canada has 1/10th the number of doctors the US has.. it is extremely hard to find someone knowledgeable in the Schroth method in the US.. so trying to find someone in Canada (particularly western Canada) is pretty impossible.. and I know of some US doctors have invented their own special cosmetic surgery techniques.. so if the specific doctor/treatment you are seeking happens to be in the US, then that is where you go.. (Americans also go to Canada for stuff like Lasik treatments, etc).. its medical tourism.. That said, there are some bottlenecks (in Canada), in particular for seniors for things like knee replacement.. cuz older people are living longer so there are more of them and more need certain procedures.. Canada's system is not perfect but it serves most Canadians pretty well.. and if you have an emergency situation like a heart attack, etc then you get the care you need right now.. and yes, just as in the US, if you have the bucks, you have more choices open to you.. So how does any of that contradict what I've been saying? I mention Canadians visiting our doctor's office, people read a whole bunch of there own biases into that, and go off their rockers. Again, no one got bent out of shape over my mentioning all the Canadians in our malls or our grocery stores (Canadians can strip a store of milk in less than ten seconds).

Zonie63 -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 12:43:44 PM)
I live close to the Mexican border, and there are quite a few people who go down there for dental care and to have prescriptions filled, since it's cheaper down there. I've heard of some people going all the way to places like Thailand to have medical procedures done, as the care is comparable to that of America and a hell of a lot cheaper. I imagine there's pluses and minuses when comparing both systems, so depending on what a person needs, they might go elsewhere for medical services.

Marc2b -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 12:48:30 PM)
quote: I live close to the Mexican border, and there are quite a few people who go down there for dental care and to have prescriptions filled, since it's cheaper down there. I've heard of some people going all the way to places like Thailand to have medical procedures done, as the care is comparable to that of America and a hell of a lot cheaper. I imagine there's pluses and minuses when comparing both systems, so depending on what a person needs, they might go elsewhere for medical services. And they're still coming out of the word work. Fascinating.

tj444 -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 12:59:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: it depends on what healthcare they are seeking.. remember, there are procedures that are not covered by Canada's health care system.. you know, optional stuff like cosmetic surgery, dental, Lasik, various other things like that.. I have scoliosis and there is a treatment (Schroth method) invented by a someone in Germany but there are very few practitioners of that treatment/technique in north america.. Canada has only 1/10th the population of the US so of course, Canada has 1/10th the number of doctors the US has.. it is extremely hard to find someone knowledgeable in the Schroth method in the US.. so trying to find someone in Canada (particularly western Canada) is pretty impossible.. and I know of some US doctors have invented their own special cosmetic surgery techniques.. so if the specific doctor/treatment you are seeking happens to be in the US, then that is where you go.. (Americans also go to Canada for stuff like Lasik treatments, etc).. its medical tourism.. That said, there are some bottlenecks (in Canada), in particular for seniors for things like knee replacement.. cuz older people are living longer so there are more of them and more need certain procedures.. Canada's system is not perfect but it serves most Canadians pretty well.. and if you have an emergency situation like a heart attack, etc then you get the care you need right now.. and yes, just as in the US, if you have the bucks, you have more choices open to you.. So how does any of that contradict what I've been saying? I mention Canadians visiting our doctor's office, people read a whole bunch of there own biases into that, and go off their rockers. Again, no one got bent out of shape over my mentioning all the Canadians in our malls or our grocery stores (Canadians can strip a store of milk in less than ten seconds). wow.. ok, first off, I did not get bent outta shape or "go off my rocker".. (I dont even own a rocker, fyi).. and I was not contradicting you or attempting to, just explaining that not everything is covered in Canada by the health care system and there are various reasons why a Canadian might visit a US doc (and why an American might visit a Canadian doc).. Personally, if I still lived in Canada I would not bother crossing the border at all, not for cheese, milk, gas, clothes.. its a lotta hassle to cross that dam border unless you absolutely have to..

Zonie63 -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 1:08:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: I live close to the Mexican border, and there are quite a few people who go down there for dental care and to have prescriptions filled, since it's cheaper down there. I've heard of some people going all the way to places like Thailand to have medical procedures done, as the care is comparable to that of America and a hell of a lot cheaper. I imagine there's pluses and minuses when comparing both systems, so depending on what a person needs, they might go elsewhere for medical services. And they're still coming out of the word work. Fascinating. I was just pointing out a few things I've observed. I think you may have misunderstood my meaning. I can see that both systems might have their flaws and virtues.

Marc2b -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 1:18:16 PM)
quote: wow.. ok, first off, I did not get bent outta shape or "go off my rocker".. And yet, hear you still are. quote: (I dont even own a rocker, fyi).. and I was not contradicting you or attempting to, just explaining that not everything is covered in Canada by the health care system and there are various reasons why a Canadian might visit a US doc (and why an American might visit a Canadian doc).. [?quote] Well, obviously. What I find fascinating is the apparent conclusions people draw by my pointing out the Canadian licence plates at our doctor's offices. It really is like I'm questioning an article of faith. "He's questioning the Canadian Health care system! That cannot be abides!" I get the same vibe that I get from Christian Fundamentalists when you question the inerrancy of the Bible. quote: Personally, if I still lived in Canada I would not bother crossing the border at all, not for cheese, milk, gas, clothes.. its a lotta hassle to cross that dam border unless you absolutely have to.. Really? I've never had that much of a hassle? Sure, when there is a big event (like a concert or a Bills' game) the wait can be interminable (like five figgen hours!) but that is not the norm. The usual wait, depending on the time of day/week/year is five to twenty-five minutes. It is not a hassle dealing with the customs agents either... just answer the questions and don't be a dick and you'll be fine.

tj444 -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 2:30:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b And yet, hear you still are. You are absolutely right.. no need for me to attempt to converse with you any further.. Good day..

tazzygirl -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/16/2013 2:37:18 PM)
quote: See what I mean? You just can't let it go? Nobody got upset that I mentioned all the Canadians in our malls but mention some Canadian at our doctor's office and people get all bent out of shape... like I'm questioning an article of their faith. No one is bent out of shape... except maybe you... and why should I just let misinformation go?

Marc2b -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/17/2013 6:25:20 AM)
quote: why should I just let misinformation go? What Misinformation? All I did was mention that it is not uncommon to see Canadians in our doctor's offices. You and several others then read a whole bunch more into it and felt a need to "correct" me. I really don't give a crap that there are Canadians visiting our doctors or what their reasons are (and for that matter, I don't give a crap that Americans are visiting Canadian or Mexican doctors). I do find this a fascinating study of human nature, the way people will make presumptions based upon their own biases. People really are reacting as if I questioned an article of their faith.

tazzygirl -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/17/2013 3:03:13 PM)
Coupled with the link that pops gave... which contains multiple lies in itself.. and the impression you gave is unmistakable. If you dont like what is being said, then be about your merry way. But dont slam people for "still being here". I have been arguing the health care system on these boards for years now. Comments like "have to wait" is a big battle... and not only incorrect, but misinformation most want to gobble up ... at least those who are happy with the status quo in the US heath care system. So, when ever I see stupidity about it posted, I will attempt to inform. If you dont want to read it, you can always block me. However, I wont stop because people are whining about it.

Lucylastic -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/17/2013 6:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Only Canada's rich yuppies are coming to see our doctors because they don't feel like waiting a couple of weeks or meeting at night. I am half Canadian, have friends in Canada and a Canadian online slave, none of which have any problem whatsoever with Canadian healthcare. Almost all of what we hear or read about Canadian and European healthcare service is for-profit propaganda and outright lies from the American health care profiteers. I didn't say anything about Canadian and European healthcare service, propaganda, or or American healthcare profiteers. All I know is that it is not uncommon to see Canadian licence plates in the parking lots of our doctor's offices. If that demonstrates some flaw in Canada's system then it does... knee jerk complaints about corporate propaganda won't solve the problem. If it is just Canada's rich yuppies well, can you blame them? Who want's to wait a couple of weeks when your health is at stake? If the middle class and the poor have no choice but to wait, again, that just demonstrates a flaw in the system that needs to be solved. it was this posts that did it for me, and no I wont shut up about it either marc, but then you really shouldnt have expected anything else from me eh?> not uncommmon...means daily, hourly? weekly?? and you know they are there for a life at stake medical procedure how??? Lasik eye stuff just south of the border is several hundred dollars less than here,, many forms of plastic surgery are not covered by province insurance, and is cheaper.... , that is known by the surgeons and they have referrals all the time from people who feel the need to change themselves. But your yah boo sucks to be poor or middle class *yesIm paraphrasing" is the reason your health care system is so reviled. you can only access it IF You have the money.... now because you feel bullied, i will refrain from posting again...unless you wanna argument:) Ill be in the argument hall down the corridor:)

Marc2b -> RE: John Hawkin's top ten list about the U.S. (7/18/2013 6:57:59 AM)
quote: Coupled with the link that pops gave... which contains multiple lies in itself.. and the impression you gave is unmistakable. If you dont like what is being said, then be about your merry way. But dont slam people for "still being here". I have been arguing the health care system on these boards for years now. Comments like "have to wait" is a big battle... and not only incorrect, but misinformation most want to gobble up ... at least those who are happy with the status quo in the US heath care system. So, when ever I see stupidity about it posted, I will attempt to inform. If you dont want to read it, you can always block me. However, I wont stop because people are whining about it. Well, obviously it is mistakable since this all started with doctor's offices being mentioned at the end of a list that included malls, grocery stores and tobacco shops. People read into that a whole lot of shit that isn't there and jumped to all sorts of conclusions. In responses to others I never made any statements of facts I only asked questions and lo and behold the superior attitudes come out and the snark starts to fly. It is not stupidity to ask questions.

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