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RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/17/2013 10:12:36 PM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

It's called apatomophila. It is an acute form of paraphilia that manifests itself by a desire to have limbs amputated.

What is paraphilia you ask? Pretty much any fetish qualifies.

However it does break the bonds of "Safe, Sane, Consensual." Mostly on the "Sane" part of that. Also a bit of the "Safe" part.

Batshit crazy gets my vote too.

Brief thread hijack: this post made me want to know what paraphilia is. Wikipedia (yeah, I'm ashamed of myself) has a list of 500+ paraphilias (which I still don't really understand). And on that list I found dendrophilia: being sexually attracted to or sexually aroused by trees. Swear to God.
Hijack over.

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Post #: 21

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/17/2013 11:29:25 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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It's not a tough question: If your kinks don't match my kinks then you are a pervert. :-)

Actually, everyone is a pervert on some level. This particular one makes us squeamish, but for most people so does yours.

There is a difference though: if you get SRS then you are still a functioning member of society. I couldn't possibly understand why someone would want to get rid of their penis; mine is a source of lots of pleasure - but, afterwards you can still go to work.

My particular fetish is for high heels. I'm a country boy. Most of my life I've lived in the woods and farms. Stiletto heels and open ground don't work very well together; but it can be dealt with.*

Having all of your limbs chopped off kind of removes that possibility. This goes from being a sexual deviancy (as I said, we are all sexual deviants) to becoming a burden on society of your own free will. I have no problem paying my share of the welfare for a firefighter who got crippled or a child who was in a car accident. I have a bit of a problem paying for someone to have their limbs chopped off because that's how they get their jollies.

*Earth first! We'll pave the other planets later.

(in reply to njlauren)

Post #: 22

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/17/2013 11:37:54 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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First off, it's Latin. I thought all you lawyer types speak Latin, "habeus corpus," "causus belli," "extra mayonaise," etc.

It's just a fancy word for phychobabblers to to use instead of "He likes tying her up, heh, heh, snerk."

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

Post #: 23

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/18/2013 1:20:44 AM

LittleGirlHeart

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I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

That being said, if she does choose to go through with this, I feel she can't make claim to special treatment either. No disability claims if she can't find (or keep) a job. Though luck if there are places she can't access because of lack of a wheelchair ramp. No special consideration on housing, parking, or any other disability benefits.

Her making use of those types of services, to the detriment of those who actually need them because of things outside of their own control, I would consider selfish.
But if she wants to play pretend at being disabled, even to the point of altering her body to the point where she physically can't use her legs, I see nothing wrong with that.

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RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/18/2013 3:23:52 AM

Termyn8or

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FR

I have been watching this thread, and I did look at the link. There are quite a few people with brace fetishes. Leg, neck, back even arm braces. It seems to be bondage related on the surface but really, maybe there is something else for some. (those things are EXPENSIVE)

There may be a couple of possibilities here. One would be maybe to make her leg braces lockable, and I mean in ways other than the obvious. they lock either straight or at a ninety degree angle. Or at all angles except for when a spring loded release is pressed. this should make it a bit tough to get around. Maybe she should try an RGO. (reciprocating gait orthosis) Fall over a few times in one of those and then see how enthusiastic you are.

Another possibility may be to induce the paralysis temporarily. The injection of certain drugs or possibly some mechanical method applied to the lower spinal nerves might do it. That should be reversible.

For a price of course.

The mechanical options might not be enough and the medical options might be risky, but some people like risk. And as stated, absolutely no sympathy. She better have some money for help because there is no way any insurance or government should pay for any of this, any more than they pay for floggers, collars or cuffs.

Of course somehow Evil Knievil got fixed up after a crash.......

T^T

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)

Post #: 25

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/18/2013 4:53:44 AM

Duskypearls

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I have not read the entire thread, and am not through my first cuppa joe. I remember coming upon limb amputation obsession (not of a sexual nature) about 2 years ago, and felt both disturbed and fascinated, simultaneously. I only read a bit on it, but what stood out most for me was some of these folks so strongly feel that a limb(s) of theirs does NOT belong to them, it feels horrible, they hate it, would go as far as to be willing to amputate themselves (some successfully) to be rid of it, and felt 100% normal for the first time in their life, and were happy once they were free of it.

Some likened it to feeling like those being born the wrong sex, and were absolutely tormented by the unwanted limb(s) presence. Fascinating stuff, indeed.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 26

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/18/2013 1:04:47 PM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

First off, it's Latin. I thought all you lawyer types speak Latin, "habeus corpus," "causus belli," "extra mayonaise," etc.

It's just a fancy word for phychobabblers to to use instead of "He likes tying her up, heh, heh, snerk."

Ha. This lawyer type is still trying to define "kinky" versus "vanilla" for herself, let alone dabbling in Latin fetishes. I'm still bemused by dendrophilia, a bit of Latin they left out of our curriculum

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Post #: 27

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/18/2013 7:49:21 PM

MyWay1954

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Always had this thing where I wanted to face down and belt a Great White square in the snout.
But some things are just nuts so it's never happened.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

Post #: 28

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 5:42:29 AM

garyFLR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

My guess is, she really wants to be on the public dole more than anything. In centuries past, people have purposely maimed themselves in order to be more believable beggars. Good luck on her finding a doctor willing to do that, though. There's this little thing called the Hippocratic Oath to overcome.

Your right MasterC on every count, apart from the fact that to intentionally maim someone is illegal, no reputable surgeon would do it.

Psychiatric help, surely would be more appropriate.

As the article appeared in The Sun, (The Currant Bun, as us cockneys call it), it's probably a non story with a grain of truth tacked onto a tissue of lies.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)

Post #: 29

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 8:56:10 AM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I dated a girl once who had a HUGE boxing helena fantasy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Helena

She wan't batshit crazy but....

I don't know, man... she WAS dating you. ahem.

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RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 8:58:02 AM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls

I have not read the entire thread, and am not through my first cuppa joe. I remember coming upon limb amputation obsession (not of a sexual nature) about 2 years ago, and felt both disturbed and fascinated, simultaneously. I only read a bit on it, but what stood out most for me was some of these folks so strongly feel that a limb(s) of theirs does NOT belong to them, it feels horrible, they hate it, would go as far as to be willing to amputate themselves (some successfully) to be rid of it, and felt 100% normal for the first time in their life, and were happy once they were free of it.

Some likened it to feeling like those being born the wrong sex, and were absolutely tormented by the unwanted limb(s) presence. Fascinating stuff, indeed.

There were a couple patients like that at the hospital where I used to work. I've never thought of it in terms of the gender issue. This is an interesting idea. Must think on it a bit...

*edited to add: It has always struck me as odd that people willingly cut off parts of themselves. Even if it is a transgender thing, I find it disturbing that they readily remove this or that from their physical body. There has to be a better way than the whole binary pov....

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 7/19/2013 9:00:04 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 9:23:40 AM

JstAnotherSub

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This woman just wants to have nerves cut to make her a paraplegic, not remove any limbs, although I guess using the use of them is almost like amputation. I have thought on this more than I care to admit in the past few days and it still just blows my mind.....I give up on trying to change my "batshit crazy" diagnosis.

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RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 3:47:41 PM

erieangel

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Yeah. She's batshit crazy. Even for me. I have a hard admitting that because I'm supposed to "not judge" people for what they do and how they feel in my job and I try to be nonjudgmental all the time for practice. OTOH, I can see how, IF she'd done the counseling thing, taken injections and wore braces to be "temporarily paralyzed and still feels determined to lose the use of her legs, I'd say there was no other option than for her to be granted whatever medical assistance would accomplish the task; otherwise she may find some other way--more dangerous way to do so. One in which she would put her own life and the lives of others in possible jeopardy.

As for being on "the public dole"... How much of a contributing member of society do you think somebody is such a state of mind would be? Sure she can currently walk, but can she hold down a job when she is tormented by having the use of her legs? I say, give such a person what he/she needs to become a contributing member of society, be that long term rehab care, reasonable accommodations at work, a home health aid, whatever. So long as her plan is not to become paralyzed and then claim total disability where she was not disabled before (though I think she may have been, psychologically).

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 33

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 8:04:40 PM

littlewonder

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Just because she wouldn't have legs and would be in a wheelchair doesn't mean she can't be a very good contributed member of society. She can still work. I work with a man who is only in his 50's and is in a wheelchair and he's been working there for years upon years and is one of the highest paid people in our office.

I don't see why this would stop her from having a great job and being like everyone else in society.

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RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 10:18:06 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: Duskypearls

I have not read the entire thread, and am not through my first cuppa joe. I remember coming upon limb amputation obsession (not of a sexual nature) about 2 years ago, and felt both disturbed and fascinated, simultaneously. I only read a bit on it, but what stood out most for me was some of these folks so strongly feel that a limb(s) of theirs does NOT belong to them, it feels horrible, they hate it, would go as far as to be willing to amputate themselves (some successfully) to be rid of it, and felt 100% normal for the first time in their life, and were happy once they were free of it.

Some likened it to feeling like those being born the wrong sex, and were absolutely tormented by the unwanted limb(s) presence. Fascinating stuff, indeed.

There were a couple patients like that at the hospital where I used to work. I've never thought of it in terms of the gender issue. This is an interesting idea. Must think on it a bit...

*edited to add: It has always struck me as odd that people willingly cut off parts of themselves. Even if it is a transgender thing, I find it disturbing that they readily remove this or that from their physical body. There has to be a better way than the whole binary pov....

With transgender people, it isn't about the binary pov, it is to them that their mind doesn't match their body. I had a long discussion with a butch lesbian one night, and she said she could wear men's clothing, short hair, etc, so why couldn't a trans person dress as a man or woman and feel content? After several drinks, I think I got the point across that she being butch is how she plays out her gender, but in the end, she identified as a butch woman, not a man, and was happy with her genitals and even her breasts, she was happy being butch.

That isn't true of a trans person (the type who go all the way), to them, it just doesn't feel right, any more than a typical woman on this board who woke up one day with a dick, a beard and body hair would feel about them. The whole 'gender identity' is constructed is crap, gender roles to a certain extent are, but no one teaches us to be male or female, maybe how we play it out..... the worse had to be people who say "okay, you know you are a man or woman inside, so why not just live with that?". The problem is that if you are okay with your gender identity, you never realize how important it is, you simply are, you cannot fathom what it is like when it is out of synch, and even imagining "gee, what if I woke up tomorrow with breasts and a vagina" doesn't work...a rough analogy are the straight people who talk about gays needing to 'flaunt their sexuality', and because it is such a part of the fabric of lives for straight people,they don't realize how much they 'flaunt their sexuality' whether it is wedding rings, talking about your date last night, talking about kids and spouses, the kind of clothing young women wear to a bar on saturday night, and so forth, to them that isn't flaunting it, it is just there, but if a gay person wants to do it, dissonance hits; to people who are at comfort with their bodies, the thought of someone not being comfortable with theirs seems odd....

BTW, some trans people are perfectly happy being a man with a vagina or a woman with a penis, to others that is agony to them. I know F to M's who so hate their breasts, they have a hard time even touching them, even to bind them so they don't show, it is that strong.

It is why I made the analogy with this woman. On the other hand, before even contemplating doing that, I think an effort has to be made to see if she can be made more comfortable, which is very similar to what the whole transition process is about with trans people, to see where they can be comfortable, it is a process. It does squick me out, I'll be honest, the thought of someone wanting to be paralyzed with perfectly good legs, but a M to F wants their penis to be made into a vagina, to them a penis is non functional but a vagina is, to this woman they are not functional unless she is paralyzed, it is a totally different mindset.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 35

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 11:22:35 PM

UllrsIshtar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

It is why I made the analogy with this woman. On the other hand, before even contemplating doing that, I think an effort has to be made to see if she can be made more comfortable, which is very similar to what the whole transition process is about with trans people, to see where they can be comfortable, it is a process. It does squick me out, I'll be honest, the thought of someone wanting to be paralyzed with perfectly good legs, but a M to F wants their penis to be made into a vagina, to them a penis is non functional but a vagina is, to this woman they are not functional unless she is paralyzed, it is a totally different mindset.

I totally get that.

For me I don't have any 'functional' body parts of myself that I want to get rid of, but I do have some 'useless' body parts I would very much like to eliminate. My internal libia are big enough that I would love to have them seriously trimmed if I ever have the money, and I have tons of body hair that I'm permanently removing through electrolysis (up to, every single hair on my body below my neck) because I don't want it there.

Of course, none of these things are as big and obvious as a sex-change, or the removal of limbs, but, in a small sense, it's still the same concept, because these are things that are a natural part of my body that I don't want there, and I don't feel are 'a part of me'. Because of this, I wouldn't mind losing them at all, and there isn't a doubt in my mind that if they'd be gone, I'd never for a second miss them or regret the decision to remove them.

It's harder to imagine feeling the same way towards something like my legs, my breasts, or my vagina, but I DO know that, if I where to feel the same way about any of those body parts as I do about my libia minora, or my unwanted hair, I really couldn't live with living just accepting that they are there, if I had the money and opportunity to get rid of them.

It's a big jump to go from 'a useless' to a 'functional' body part, until you realize that the difference between 'functional' and 'useless' is an arbitrary line in people's heads based on their own relationship to their body, and what they're used to.

I'm sure that a transgender person considers their genitalia just as 'useless' as I consider my libia minora, and if the woman mentioned in the OP feels the same way about her legs, I can fully understand and accept her desire to alter them in a way more compatible to her own body image.

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RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/19/2013 11:56:10 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
...I wondered if those who see being born as the wrong gender as legitimate and should be fixed via surgery if the person so desires, would they agree that this woman has the right to the body she believes she is.

I feel for her, but think this is not equivalent to undergoing gender reassignment surgery. I was going to say, because if she gets the operation (even with her own money), society will have to bear some of the expense and inconvenience associated with her choice, in terms of handicapped facilities, etc. But the same argument could be made about anyone whose gender reassignment surgery gets covered by their insurance, they're sharing the bill with others. (My impression is that's it's rare but not unheard of for someone's health insurance to cover it.)

I'll have to think on it.

Pam

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Post #: 37

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/20/2013 12:16:09 AM

metamorfosis

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I don't think it's crazy, however, and if it weren't for the possible imposition to society, I wouldn't have a problem. Incidentallly, aetna's criteria for covering gender reassignment surgery is the following:

2 letters of referral from a well qualified mental health professional, AND
Persistent, well documented gender identity disorder, AND
Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent to treatment, AND
Age of majority (18 or older), AND
If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably well controlled, AND
12 months of continuous hormone therapy, AND
12 months of real life experience living that gender role.

www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html

It sounds like this woman would meet the criteria if a similar list were made for her disorder.

Pam

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Post #: 38

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/20/2013 12:38:48 AM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
As for being on "the public dole"... How much of a contributing member of society do you think somebody is such a state of mind would be? Sure she can currently walk, but can she hold down a job when she is tormented by having the use of her legs?

She seems to be doing just fine in that regard. She's apparently a research scientist who used to work for Stanford University.

Pam

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Post #: 39

RE: Woman feels she should be a paraplegic... - 7/20/2013 9:00:50 AM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
...I wondered if those who see being born as the wrong gender as legitimate and should be fixed via surgery if the person so desires, would they agree that this woman has the right to the body she believes she is.

I feel for her, but think this is not equivalent to undergoing gender reassignment surgery. I was going to say, because if she gets the operation (even with her own money), society will have to bear some of the expense and inconvenience associated with her choice, in terms of handicapped facilities, etc. But the same argument could be made about anyone whose gender reassignment surgery gets covered by their insurance, they're sharing the bill with others. (My impression is that's it's rare but not unheard of for someone's health insurance to cover it.)

I'll have to think on it.

Pam

It is very, very rare, few plans cover it, with some notable exceptions, most of them have exclusions that say it is 'experimental surgery', is 'cosmetic surgery', and deny it. Some people have gotten it paid for by challenging the wording on the policy (some of them use terms like 'psychic hermaphrodism' that literally means nothing). As far as costing others when you use insurance, that is problematic, since the whole idea of insurance plans is you pay into them, and it helps pay for others, then when you need it, you get paid for. SRS surgery itself is a lot cheaper then many things people get treated for, these days having a kid can be billed out at almost 10 grand, open heart surgery is 100+ grand, cancer is staggering....SRS last I checked was about 30-35k, depending on where you do it. Women get their breast rebuilt after a mastectomy (rightfully so) though insurance companies tried to argue it was 'cosmetic'......all those are shared with others, too, it is the point of group insurance. I have heard similar arguments from the anti same sex marriage crowd, how giving benefits to married same sex partners would bankrupt insurance and such, it is like WTF?If you are going to do that, drop middle aged and older men, cause when their hearts have problems,look out..or the people who have kids, since that is expensive to plans, too......(wasn't aiming this part at the poster I responded to, was talking in general).

(in reply to metamorfosis)

Post #: 40

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