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RE: atheists represent - 7/18/2013 4:43:11 AM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: splatterpunk

me. i'm an atheist.

well good for you in your choice of religion.

Funny how I was going to say that I am more the Bhuddist...a believer in no Gods but in nature. So I use this to suggest that if one apparently must have a so-called religion...I rely up on nature. And trust me...she is taking her toll and not out of my income.

As evidence, I am not sleeping. I do but not so much so I write here and at other blogs.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 21

RE: atheists represent - 7/18/2013 7:08:41 AM

Marc2b

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I'm an agnostic which, of course, is an atheist who is hedging his bets.

Ba-dum-bum!

Okay, seriously...

I consider myself an agnostic and not an atheist for one reason: there is at the heart of existence a mystery and seeming paradox. Either, once there was nothing and out of nothing came something (and no, I am not referring to the Big Bang) or there has always been something. Both seem impossible and counter intuitive. For that reason I accept the possibility that there lies outside of normal space-time, beyond human comprehension, a creative force (perhaps intelligent, but who says it has to be) that - for lack of a better term - we can call God.

As for this (maybe) God's attitude toward humanity... based upon the evidence, or rather the lack of evidence, I think the best that can be said about it is: indifference. Although, if you wanted to put a positive spin on it, you could say that God is wise enough to leave us alone because it is the only way we will learn.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to splatterpunk)

Post #: 22

RE: atheists represent - 7/18/2013 7:31:56 AM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: splatterpunk
so i'm wondering who else is.

...just straight up wanted to know who else here absolutely does not believe in god. :D

You don't have to be an atheist to not believe in god.

Just sayin'

(in reply to splatterpunk)

Post #: 23

RE: atheists represent - 7/18/2013 7:33:31 AM

Toysinbabeland

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Oh thank goodness.
You atheists DO exist! And here I was about to give up hope trying to believe in you.
:)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 24

RE: atheists represent - 7/18/2013 7:52:08 AM

thursdays

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Hmm... I think the Uni of Tennessee study conflates philosophy with theism.

I would classify myself as a combination of Non-Theist and Intellectual Atheist. (To stress - the moniker "intellectual atheist" does not imply any claim as to how brainy a person is, it simply describes their position wrt their atheism).

(in reply to thezeppo)

Post #: 25

RE: atheists represent - 7/18/2013 8:18:21 AM

Real0ne

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FR

The Beginning

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to thursdays)

Post #: 26

RE: atheists represent - 7/18/2013 9:09:41 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

Me. I'm an anaesthesiologist.

My favorite people on Earth!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 27

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 7:24:02 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

FR

I consider myself more agnostic than atheist.

Thinking on that, I'm probably more atheist when it comes to legal/political issues and opposition to organized religion.

But when it comes to the end of the day and I look up at the stars and wonder what it's all about, then I'm probably more agnostic.

I'm both, I don't claim to "know" so I'm agnostic and in the absence of knowledge I lack belief as I'm of the position that the time for believing something is when there's evidence to support that position.

(in reply to Zonie63)

Post #: 28

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 7:27:13 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
I just have a hard time with the idea that god wants to be worshiped.

LOL, yeah me too. It's just for me that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. It means I think most of the major world religions are obviously stupid. That really has nothing to do with this question of "is there some sort of prime force that is in some way self aware". If there is such a force I'm utterly certain that it bears no resemblance to anything in any bible I've ever read except perhaps certain flavors of Buddhism.

So no, for me it's not a stopper.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 29

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 8:48:13 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
LOL, yeah me too. It's just for me that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. It means I think most of the major world religions are obviously stupid. That really has nothing to do with this question of "is there some sort of prime force that is in some way self aware". If there is such a force I'm utterly certain that it bears no resemblance to anything in any bible I've ever read except perhaps certain flavors of Buddhism.

So no, for me it's not a stopper.

You're right, even if everybody else's idea is "obviously stupid" it doesn't prove that there's nothing which could possibly referred to as god. However, if you've seen everyone else apply magical thinking to the question and produce "obvious stupidity" as the result I would think that's a pretty good object lesson not to go about things in the same manner. I mean if you're talking about a force that falls within the realm of physics right?

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 30

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 8:54:48 AM

Real0ne

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fr

no one however drives this to the root structure. Not even our own spanish master has bothered to go to the source.

The key element of realizing God, is "belief".

Essentially if a person has no "belief" in or about anything, (brain dead), then they have no god or Gods, leaving ONLY positions based by those possessing conscious thought based on their beliefs, hence Gods by variant to choose from.

Everything "thought" to be true or false is a belief regardless if it affirms or not, and that process creates god(s) or God(s) as it is the core function of volition. (commonly known as "free will")

Now until someone can come up with a solution on how to take a "position" on "anything" without a set of "conscious" determinations based on a set of belief constructs I am forced to conclude atheism today is as nonsequitur as it was a couple thousand years ago, since religion and God is based on the core function of how the brain processes conceptions into existence, and no one that I have seen to date has done anything to smudge the paint much less scratch that surface.

Hey if anyone can get to a lower common denominator than the ancient theologians have already taken this to, I am all ears.

It seems to me this matter is binary.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/21/2013 9:26:45 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 31

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 9:38:22 AM

vincentML

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quote:

Everything "thought" to be true or false is a belief regardless if it affirms or not, and that process creates god(s) or God(s) as it is the core function of volition. (commonly known as "free will")

If every belief and volition is based on thought and we cannot create thought how is it you think you have free will? The brain goes on having thoughts even without your conscious participation while you are asleep. We call them dreams but arent they really just uncontrolled brain farts?

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 32

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 9:51:52 AM

Real0ne

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there is a specific order.

is a dream a "conscious" process?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 33

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 10:11:32 AM

evesgrden

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Joined: 6/9/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

I just have a hard time with the idea that god wants to be worshiped.

Why?

Stopper, ain't it?

A perfect being that needs adoration, has temper tantrums, knows all and then gets pissed off that humans behave in a manner consistent with the way he made them.. I could go on.

That said, I actually envy people who believe, or who believe in an afterlife. Bereavement is a whole different critter for those folks because they know they'll see loved ones again. It's not "goodbye", it's "seeya later".

Athena said something earlier today or yesterday that really resonated with me: she referred to herself as a (reluctant) atheist.

Reluctant atheist... I have yet to come across any argument that would make me anything but an atheist yet I'd LOVE to be convinced otherwise.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 34

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 10:32:50 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

there is a specific order.

is a dream a "conscious" process?

Please clarify "specific order" and define "conscious" and we can talk.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 35

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 10:35:41 AM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
It seems to me this matter is binary.

It seems to me that I'd need at least double my current IQ to follow any of that. So in the absence of intelligence I think I'll just go with something like science. As far as I'm concerned the jury is out on the existence of "god". I imagine I'll get a lot more experimental data one way or the other when I die. In the meantime I don't really see how it's all that relevant.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 36

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 11:45:22 AM

Real0ne

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
It seems to me this matter is binary.

It seems to me that I'd need at least double my current IQ to follow any of that. So in the absence of intelligence I think I'll just go with something like science. As far as I'm concerned the jury is out on the existence of "god". I imagine I'll get a lot more experimental data one way or the other when I die. In the meantime I don't really see how it's all that relevant.

actually its pretty intuitive, a physical god can neither proved nor disproved. However how the process of how we think is something better understood.

A persons god and religion is the result of process, a set of beliefs often resulting volition, then acting in accord with those beliefs forms ones "religion". Belief in a deity is irrelevant. That is the essence or substantial definition.

Its binary because its structure is set up identical to the laws of conservation of energy, where one could claim that a tiny spark that set off a huge explosion therefore yielded more output capacity than was put in.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/21/2013 12:12:18 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 37

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 11:54:38 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

there is a specific order.

is a dream a "conscious" process?

Please clarify "specific order" and define "conscious" and we can talk.

a fleeting dream in and of itself is not part of the process of a choice until it has been fashioned into a belief, and by order, it is impossible to draw a conclusion or inference before having an object to conclude or infer, and conscious is awareness.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 38

RE: atheists represent - 7/21/2013 2:26:33 PM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

there is a specific order.

is a dream a "conscious" process?

Please clarify "specific order" and define "conscious" and we can talk.

a fleeting dream in and of itself is not part of the process of a choice until it has been fashioned into a belief, and by order, it is impossible to draw a conclusion or inference before having an object to conclude or infer, and conscious is awareness.

As I sort it the process of choice and belief is so dependent on past emotional experiences it is difficult to support the notion of free rational choice or volition. We believe what we believe because of who we are.

Is the brain conscious during a fleeting dream? I am guessing here. I have not read research on it. If you have please link it. It seems to me the brain always has its own internal dialogue and internal awareness which practioners of meditation attempt to extinguish. I sometimes think I am conscious of time ticking on the digital face of my bedside clock when I am asleep. Not sure however. There may be some awareness of the external environment while asleep. There have been cases of patients aware of pain while under anaethesia during surgery. So, don't rightly know the answer to this question.

As for belief or not in an absent god which cannot be inferred or concluded due to the absence . . . . the concept of god is well present in the communal mind. To say god is absent and therefore beyond disbelief is a logical error. Did I misunderstand your premise? Not only would atheism be impossible. so, would religious belief. I hope I haven't misrepresented your position.

quote:

actually its pretty intuitive, a physical god can neither proved nor disproved. However how the process of how we think is something better understood.

A persons god and religion is the result of process, a set of beliefs often resulting volition, then acting in accord with those beliefs forms ones "religion". Belief in a deity is irrelevant. That is the essence or substantial definition.

Oops, should have read this first before I answered above. I think we are saying pretty much the same thing.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/21/2013 2:29:55 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 39

RE: atheists represent - 7/22/2013 6:26:25 AM

graceadieu

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Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

I just have a hard time with the idea that god wants to be worshiped.

Why?

Stopper, ain't it?

Or care a whole lot about somebody's sex life. If there is a creator, he/she/it has created a universe that's 14 billion years old (so far), with trillions of stars, probably billions of planets, and probably at least hundreds of species of intelligent life. You'd think he/she/it would be looking at the universe with a much bigger-picture approach. I would imagine that, if he/she/it gave two shits about what we do, it would be big stuff like taking care of the planet and not fighting wars or committing genocide would be the thing. Not condeming people to billions of years of punishment for jerking off.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 40

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