quote:

JeffBC
As far as I'm concerned the jury is out on the existence of "god"

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

there is a specific order.

is a dream a "conscious" process?

Please clarify "specific order" and define "conscious" and we can talk.

a fleeting dream in and of itself is not part of the process of a choice until it has been fashioned into a belief, and by order, it is impossible to draw a conclusion or inference before having an object to conclude or infer, and conscious is awareness.

As I sort it the process of choice and belief is so dependent on past emotional experiences it is difficult to support the notion of free rational choice or volition. We believe what we believe because of who we are.

well yeh everyone has their own unique perspective on everything based on their life experience real or imagined. What/who someone believes or worships is not knowable to anyone until it manifests itself externally by its appearance, this process forms the basis for all action by what you know as free will. Sorted out beliefs form the will, the will motivates one to act, the actions and external appearance of the will is their religion. It is the substantial definition of religion, anything less would arbitrarily deny thought,

Hence everything in the mind is a composite of beliefs regardless if that belief result in positive or negative conclusions. An atheist for instance "believes" god does not exist as that is a result of a sorting process accomplished by the brain.

Is the brain conscious during a fleeting dream? I am guessing here. I have not read research on it. If you have please link it. It seems to me the brain always has its own internal dialogue and internal awareness which practioners of meditation attempt to extinguish. I sometimes think I am conscious of time ticking on the digital face of my bedside clock when I am asleep. Not sure however. There may be some awareness of the external environment while asleep. There have been cases of patients aware of pain while under anaethesia during surgery. So, don't rightly know the answer to this question.

well dreaming is a different twist to what I was talking about yes. however if you are aware and consciously "sorting" things out and the results of that sorting results in a position on any matter such that it affects your personal constitution then it is a belief and acting up on it is the exercise of your religion regardless of how those convictions were constructed.

Anything one does as a reflex action such as jerking back from a pin prick or breathing purely instinctual and not within the sorting out process one would use for selecting believes or a choose in religious action

As for belief or not in an absent god which cannot be inferred or concluded due to the absence . . . . the concept of god is well present in the communal mind. To say god is absent and therefore beyond disbelief is a logical error. Did I misunderstand your premise? Not only would atheism be impossible. so, would religious belief. I hope I haven't misrepresented your position.

quote:

actually its pretty intuitive, a physical god can neither proved nor disproved. However how the process of how we think is something better understood.

A persons god and religion is the result of process, a set of beliefs often resulting volition, then acting in accord with those beliefs forms ones "religion". Belief in a deity is irrelevant. That is the essence or substantial definition.

Oops, should have read this first before I answered above. I think we are saying pretty much the same thing.

quote:

the point here is that you worship whatever is your core.

quote:

you can worship anything in complete secrecy, however you cannot exercise your religion (the actions resulting from your beliefs) in secrecy hence the distinction between worship and exercising religion.

quote:

That is my point, like most everything else in this country, you have a fucking piece of paper that says a lot of shit that is nothing more then a lot of shit because you have NO right what so ever to "EXERCISE" your religion in this country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

I just have a hard time with the idea that god wants to be worshiped.

Or care a whole lot about somebody's sex life...

Some people believe that something greater exists on the basis of their personal experience, something for which the word "God" serves as a placeholder not a definition. Other people believe in a book. They can tell you exactly what God wants, and exactly what God hates, because it's right there in the book. "He said so."

It has always seemed rather odd to me that the latter are the ones we call "religious".

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

the point here is that you worship whatever is your core.

On this we agree.

quote:

you can worship anything in complete secrecy, however you cannot exercise your religion (the actions resulting from your beliefs) in secrecy hence the distinction between worship and exercising religion.

Seems a distinction without a difference. Anyone can perform a ritual in privacy. He would only NEED to exercise his worship in public if he thought his god could not see nor hear through the walls of his home.

quote:

That is my point, like most everything else in this country, you have a fucking piece of paper that says a lot of shit that is nothing more then a lot of shit because you have NO right what so ever to "EXERCISE" your religion in this country.

Well, sure you do. With certain restrictions. You can pray anywhere. Even in public school if you are not disrupting the learning environment or trying to organize others in prayer during classroom hours.

And, oh yes, no sacrificing virgins allowed. Ot even animals for that matter.