RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy.

RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 10:28:19 AM)
Your post was: blah blah blah blah meaningless gibberish.. quote: and if you disagree they will bankrupt you and take away all your shit in the process Culminating in meaningless gibberish quoted as your peroration. So you are talking in off topic and fully slobbering ranting hallucinations again, per usual.

Zonie63 -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 10:48:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman I hear a start-up called Omni Consumer Products is tendering a bail-out offer even as we speak... I also heard they're planning a telethon to help save the city. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMLQ-bTuGb4

mnottertail -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 10:53:13 AM)
Call them Kevin Orr's inner city kids.....

Yachtie -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 11:04:53 AM)
This is not the all of it by any means. But it sure is a part of it. [image]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/07/20130719_Detroit.jpg[/image]

evesgrden -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 11:37:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 My question is who picks up the pieces, or will Detroit just be left to rot. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23369573 The pieces are being torn down. http://tinyurl.com/phehtph

Politesub53 -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 4:15:15 PM)
I agree with Yachtie about the decreasing population. The City has growth so the economy picks up. Workers become better paid and move out to more affluent areas. The City then suffers a massive decrease in the tax intake. If corruption has taken place over many years, why is it never acted upon ? Surely cutting that would help boost revenues in the long term. Better schooling would also have a long term benefit.

Phydeaux -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 4:30:01 PM)
9 bill out of the 11 bill owed is to the city workers pension. Nuff said? Although, only in michigan can you repeal gravity.

JeffBC -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 4:36:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux 9 bill out of the 11 bill owed is to the city workers pension. Nuff said? If that's really true then yes. What we know then is the whole plot give or take. Some bastard politicians stole people's money and because the people can't do jack about it it's going to work. You just gotta love "pensions" in the US (including SSI). They are basically a way to steal money from people.

Phydeaux -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 4:49:03 PM)
Whats probably more accurate, is that detroits couldnt afford to keep wages (and staffing) as a city of 500k like it did when it had 2mil. Politicians (being what they are) kept paying and borrowing money to pay till there was no more of other peoples money to borrow. And now reckoning has come due. What is interesting is a county judge saying - nope, you can't declare bankruptcy. As if the money will magically appear. Michigan's unions passed a "you can't declare bankruptcy rule - or do anything else that would cut pensions". (aka, repealed gravity). Which demonstrates that a). Michigan really was run like a piggy bank. b). de Toqueville was right. Democracy works until the people realize they can vote themselves a pay raise. So what happens next is this: The city should stop paying all bills, whatsoever. That will cause a lot of screaming. But the city needs to be scrupulous. No payments. Then they ought to go ok. Whoever wants to take 25 cents on the dollar - step right up. This will write off a lot of debt. If the unions don't want to take it- they can gamble that detroit become healthy. (never happen). Still they didn't elect me.....

WebWanderer -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 8:17:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Whoever wants to take 25 cents on the dollar - step right up. Actually, the figure I saw was 10 cents on the dollar as part of the bankruptcy settlement. There will be a lot of very rich, very pissed off people...

RottenJohnny -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 8:25:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 My question is who picks up the pieces, or will Detroit just be left to rot. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23369573 Left to rot? No. Glad to see the final collapse? Yes. Many Michiganders have had a love/hate relationship with Detroit for a long time. We're proud of its history with the automotive industry and many other things but sick and tired of watching different administrations, political groups, and businesses slowly pick away at the bones for personal gain. Now we have a clear path to rebuild it. quote: The White House said it was closely monitoring developments in Detroit. I've got a piece of advice for the White House...stay the fuck out of our business. We'll take care of this without your intrusions. BTW...the Tigers are gonna win the World Series this year. I'm sure of it.[:)]

Real0ne -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 10:03:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux 9 bill out of the 11 bill owed is to the city workers pension. Nuff said? Although, only in michigan can you repeal gravity. [image]http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y410/mypbemotes/fed%20res/6a00d8341bfa1853ef00e554f355bd8833-200pi_zps725681c3.jpg[/image] [image]http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y410/mypbemotes/tax/empty-trough_zpsbe41df20.png[/image] yeh they are bankrupt because there is not enough money so the criminals who looted the place can collect their EMPLOYEE entitlements that they granted themselves!

Real0ne -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 10:05:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 If corruption has taken place over many years, why is it never acted upon ? [image]http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y410/mypbemotes/00/0Gen/cement_overshoes_watchh_zps158829f5-1.jpg[/image] now that is a really complicated subject

JeffBC -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 10:39:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Whats probably more accurate, is that detroits couldnt afford to keep wages (and staffing) as a city of 500k like it did when it had 2mil. Politicians (being what they are) kept paying and borrowing money to pay till there was no more of other peoples money to borrow. That is essentially my feeling except for in any sane system the "paying" would have happened year by year and the retirements would be available because money had been paid in and then invested yada yada. But I'm guessing they were running it more like a ponzi scheme. This is hardly the first pension fund in the US that has turned out to be a total scam. Social Security comes to mind along with a host of corporate pension plans. One of the stunning things about being here in Canada is that they actually DO take your money, invest it on your behalf, and then pay it back to you as they promised. Wow! Whodathunk?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 11:37:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I agree with Yachtie about the decreasing population. The City has growth so the economy picks up. Workers become better paid and move out to more affluent areas. The City then suffers a massive decrease in the tax intake. If corruption has taken place over many years, why is it never acted upon ? Surely cutting that would help boost revenues in the long term. Better schooling would also have a long term benefit. I can't speak totally for Detroit, but usually, you pay taxes in the tax district you earn them in. Thus, if I live outside Detroit, but work in Detroit, I pay taxes to Detroit. The City of Toledo has a reciprocal agreement with most of the suburbs that if a Citizen of Toledo works in a suburb, whatever City taxes are taken out by that suburb count dollar for dollar towards the Toledoan's City of Toledo taxes owed. The City of Maumee has an income tax rate of 1.75% while the City of Toledo has a 2.25% tax rate. Toledoans that work in Maumee pay 1.75% of their incomes to the City of Maumee and that 1.75% is "ignored" by the City of Toledo, but 0.50% is still paid to Toledo. If you work in a Township that doesn't have income taxes, the City gets their full 2.25%. If a Maumee Citizen works in Toledo, Toledo gets their full 2.25% and Maumee gets nothing because their income tax rate is lower. The City of Perrysburg's reciprocal agreement with their surroundings is ½ of whichever rate is lower. So, if you live in Perrysburg, but work in Toledo, Toledo gets their full 2.25% while Perrysburg (1.75% rate) gets their rate less half the lower of the two rates (their own rate). So, Perrysburg gets 0.875% income tax, minimum. That means that someone living in Perrysburg and working in Toledo ends up paying over 3% of their income in City taxes. Harsh!

DesideriScuri -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/19/2013 11:42:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC This is hardly the first pension fund in the US that has turned out to be a total scam. Social Security comes to mind along with a host of corporate pension plans. One of the stunning things about being here in Canada is that they actually DO take your money, invest it on your behalf, and then pay it back to you as they promised. Wow! Whodathunk? That sounds a bit like individual investment accounts. But, we here in America know that shit won't work. We were told that when Bush 43 started pushing them...

MrRodgers -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/20/2013 2:06:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne cities and states and nations are "corporations" no different than any other corporation. well they are different, we worship them and they get away with forcing their services upon you at the end of a barrel of a gun and if you disagree they will bankrupt you and take away all your shit in the process No Detroit and cities are not a business corporation. Private (and publicly traded) for-profit corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to pay as little as possible, employ as few as possible have no retirement or benefit funding problems. If Detroit was in fact business corporation charged with maximizing profit, it would have either shrunk to possibly less than 100,000 long ago or lead the country in starvation. As it is. with NAFTA and most favored nation regime with China, metropolitan Detroit saw the exportation of some 2-3 million auto industry jobs abolishing a no longer needed 2-3 million jobs they created. Let's take the govt. jobs out of the metro Wash., DC area, let's take wall street, advertising and high fashion not to mention the lawyers and business headquarters., out of NY and let's take the oil business and the jobs it creates out of Houston and Dallas and then the 271 hotel casinos out Vegas and see what happens to those cities.

Politesub53 -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/20/2013 3:56:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I can't speak totally for Detroit, but usually, you pay taxes in the tax district you earn them in. Thus, if I live outside Detroit, but work in Detroit, I pay taxes to Detroit. The City of Toledo has a reciprocal agreement with most of the suburbs that if a Citizen of Toledo works in a suburb, whatever City taxes are taken out by that suburb count dollar for dollar towards the Toledoan's City of Toledo taxes owed. The City of Maumee has an income tax rate of 1.75% while the City of Toledo has a 2.25% tax rate. Toledoans that work in Maumee pay 1.75% of their incomes to the City of Maumee and that 1.75% is "ignored" by the City of Toledo, but 0.50% is still paid to Toledo. If you work in a Township that doesn't have income taxes, the City gets their full 2.25%. If a Maumee Citizen works in Toledo, Toledo gets their full 2.25% and Maumee gets nothing because their income tax rate is lower. The City of Perrysburg's reciprocal agreement with their surroundings is ½ of whichever rate is lower. So, if you live in Perrysburg, but work in Toledo, Toledo gets their full 2.25% while Perrysburg (1.75% rate) gets their rate less half the lower of the two rates (their own rate). So, Perrysburg gets 0.875% income tax, minimum. That means that someone living in Perrysburg and working in Toledo ends up paying over 3% of their income in City taxes. Harsh! Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking more of local property taxes. In the UK all taxes on wages are paid to the Treasury and distriuted towards Government spending as a whole. Local taxes for for the town,city are paid form a property tax.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/20/2013 5:22:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I can't speak totally for Detroit, but usually, you pay taxes in the tax district you earn them in. Thus, if I live outside Detroit, but work in Detroit, I pay taxes to Detroit. The City of Toledo has a reciprocal agreement with most of the suburbs that if a Citizen of Toledo works in a suburb, whatever City taxes are taken out by that suburb count dollar for dollar towards the Toledoan's City of Toledo taxes owed. The City of Maumee has an income tax rate of 1.75% while the City of Toledo has a 2.25% tax rate. Toledoans that work in Maumee pay 1.75% of their incomes to the City of Maumee and that 1.75% is "ignored" by the City of Toledo, but 0.50% is still paid to Toledo. If you work in a Township that doesn't have income taxes, the City gets their full 2.25%. If a Maumee Citizen works in Toledo, Toledo gets their full 2.25% and Maumee gets nothing because their income tax rate is lower. The City of Perrysburg's reciprocal agreement with their surroundings is ½ of whichever rate is lower. So, if you live in Perrysburg, but work in Toledo, Toledo gets their full 2.25% while Perrysburg (1.75% rate) gets their rate less half the lower of the two rates (their own rate). So, Perrysburg gets 0.875% income tax, minimum. That means that someone living in Perrysburg and working in Toledo ends up paying over 3% of their income in City taxes. Harsh! Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking more of local property taxes. In the UK all taxes on wages are paid to the Treasury and distriuted towards Government spending as a whole. Local taxes for for the town,city are paid form a property tax. We have property taxes, too. And, that could be another problem for Detroit. As someone else mentioned in a different Michigan thread, there are an assload of houses for sale in the Detroit area. The thing is, whoever owns that property owes those property taxes, even if it's a real estate company or bank. That's a little buyer's leverage in a foreclosure situation. The only time the property owner doesn't owe those taxes, is if it's a tax exempt entity (ie, church, government entity, etc.). If Detroit owns those properties, or the County or State, the taxes aren't going to be coming in. If it's not a government entity or a tax exempt entity, those taxes are still owed.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Detroit declares bantruptcy. (7/20/2013 5:36:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri We have property taxes, too. And, that could be another problem for Detroit. As someone else mentioned in a different Michigan thread, there are an assload of houses for sale in the Detroit area. The thing is, whoever owns that property owes those property taxes, even if it's a real estate company or bank. That's a little buyer's leverage in a foreclosure situation. The only time the property owner doesn't owe those taxes, is if it's a tax exempt entity (ie, church, government entity, etc.). If Detroit owns those properties, or the County or State, the taxes aren't going to be coming in. If it's not a government entity or a tax exempt entity, those taxes are still owed. Banks are typically good about paying the taxes on REO property. (Real Estate Owned) If the taxes back up for enough years, the government entity will have a tax auction and sell the properties for what is owed. The problem isn't necessarily collecting the taxes owed, it's the crash in values. There are tens of thousands of homes that used to be taxed based on a value of 100K to 150K or more that are now being taxed based on a value of 10K or less. It's not that they can't collect what they're owed so much as that they are only owed 5-10% of what they used to get. If you have a business making widgets and are selling them for $100-150 each and the market crashes so you can now only get $5-10, you're truly fucked. Similar situation.

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