RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!!

RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 10:42:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Got a link for that case? Ah.. never mind... you refer to the Roderick Scott case. I think you need to look up the particulars in that case. http://themartialist.net/?p=306 If it is the Scott case he got every detail wrong, for starters that shooting took place this year. I would also like a link to the actual case.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:05:10 PM)
That shooting took place in 2009. http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490556/roderick-scott-claims-self-defense-in-teen-s-shooting/ Roderick Scott told the court he shot Christopher Cervini in self-defense. Just so you know this is the case they are speaking about.... http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t982625/

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:14:51 PM)
And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement.

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:18:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl That shooting took place in 2009. http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490556/roderick-scott-claims-self-defense-in-teen-s-shooting/ Roderick Scott told the court he shot Christopher Cervini in self-defense. Just so you know this is the case they are speaking about.... http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t982625/ I am familiar with the Scott case but it happened in 2013, not 2009 so I am still unfamiliar with the 2009 case and there are not enough details to find it.

Charles6682 -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:19:03 PM)
Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed.

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:21:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement. And I am still trying to find the original link again. In any case making a move to, for, or swiping at the gun arm will all intensify the situation not calm it down. Once he started to move on Crocker he was going to have to subdue him or someone would get shot.

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:22:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Charles6682 Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed. No it isn't so no it doesn't

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:31:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement. And I am still trying to find the original link again. In any case making a move to, for, or swiping at the gun arm will all intensify the situation not calm it down. Once he started to move on Crocker he was going to have to subdue him or someone would get shot. The victim moved between them. He shot the man from 3 feet away.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:38:14 PM)
~FR James Crocker, 59, of Steelville, is charged with second-degree murder. He is in the Crawford County Jail on a $650,000 cash-only bond. According to a probable cause statement filed by the Crawford County Sheriff’s Department, detectives asked Crocker if he could have called law enforcement when the group refused to leave. To which Crocker replied, “I guess I could have, but it’s my property and I was going to protect it.” Crocker stated several times in the interview he was going to protect his property and if he would have left (to call police) the people would have been gone before law enforcement arrived, according to detectives. Detectives then asked him even if the people had left, wouldn’t have that been the desired result. Crocker’s reply according to the report was, “Yeah that would have worked too.” http://dailyjournalonline.com/news/local/hearing-set-for-meramec-river-shooter/article_918faee5-1c4f-5b6d-a610-195bceb81811.html

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement. And I am still trying to find the original link again. In any case making a move to, for, or swiping at the gun arm will all intensify the situation not calm it down. Once he started to move on Crocker he was going to have to subdue him or someone would get shot. The victim moved between them. He shot the man from 3 feet away. Crocker jumped back and shot surely you know that. Why are you still trying to convince me that Crocker is guilty when I have already said, repeatedly, that I think he is?

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:48:24 PM)
I am trying to figure out your position. You claim now he is.... but you are trying your best to defend his actions. I find nothing in his actions to defend once the trespasser left his woods.

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 12:56:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I am trying to figure out your position. You claim now he is.... but you are trying your best to defend his actions. I find nothing in his actions to defend once the trespasser left his woods. Look at my first post I said I thought he was guilty of manslaughter from the start not just now. Because I want justice not stinging him up because he had a gun like many on here are doing, see Domkens comment on beating him to death. These things are never as cut and dried as we would like for them to be. They were drunk, and behaved as drunks do. This doesn't make him right which I have stated on at least half the pages of this thread but if you can get past he had a gun so he deserves to die you have to at least consider that manslaughter is more appropriate than murder. That is my position it is simple and I have repeated it often. Mitigating circumstances means things that will lessen the charges, not things that will get him off. Do you want him to walk because he is overcharged? Or would you prefer a slam dunk manslaughter charge?

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 1:17:16 PM)
quote: This doesn't make him right which I have stated on at least half the pages of this thread but if you can get past he had a gun so he deserves to die you have to at least consider that manslaughter is more appropriate than murder. I OWN a gun. I dont think he deserves to die because he had one... nor because he defended his property with one. However, I do think he was incredibly reckless for shooting into the ground at peoples' feet. I do think he was in a snit of anger and no one was going to tell him what to do. I do think he was fed up with people along the river.... but why buy property there since its a known problem. People cannot hide behind a firearm to do any ole thing they want simply because they can. quote: Mitigating circumstances means things that will lessen the charges, not things that will get him off. Do you want him to walk because he is overcharged? Or would you prefer a slam dunk manslaughter charge? James Crocker, 59, of Steelville, is charged with second-degree murder. He is in the Crawford County Jail on a $650,000 cash-only bond. This is the initial charge. It may change. However, the following is the Missouri code Second degree murder, penalty. 565.021. 1. A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if he: (1) Knowingly causes the death of another person or, with the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, causes the death of another person; or (2) Commits or attempts to commit any felony, and, in the perpetration or the attempted perpetration of such felony or in the flight from the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony, another person is killed as a result of the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony or immediate flight from the perpetration of such felony or attempted perpetration of such felony. 2. Murder in the second degree is a class A felony, and the punishment for second degree murder shall be in addition to the punishment for commission of a related felony or attempted felony, other than murder or manslaughter. 3. Notwithstanding section 556.046 and section 565.025, in any charge of murder in the second degree, the jury shall be instructed on, or, in a jury-waived trial, the judge shall consider, any and all of the subdivisions in subsection 1 of this section which are supported by the evidence and requested by one of the parties or the court. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5650000021.htm

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 1:42:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: This doesn't make him right which I have stated on at least half the pages of this thread but if you can get past he had a gun so he deserves to die you have to at least consider that manslaughter is more appropriate than murder. I OWN a gun. I dont think he deserves to die because he had one... nor because he defended his property with one. However, I do think he was incredibly reckless for shooting into the ground at peoples' feet. I do think he was in a snit of anger and no one was going to tell him what to do. I do think he was fed up with people along the river.... but why buy property there since its a known problem. People cannot hide behind a firearm to do any ole thing they want simply because they can. quote: Mitigating circumstances means things that will lessen the charges, not things that will get him off. Do you want him to walk because he is overcharged? Or would you prefer a slam dunk manslaughter charge? James Crocker, 59, of Steelville, is charged with second-degree murder. He is in the Crawford County Jail on a $650,000 cash-only bond. This is the initial charge. It may change. However, the following is the Missouri code Second degree murder, penalty. 565.021. 1. A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if he: (1) Knowingly causes the death of another person or, with the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, causes the death of another person; or (2) Commits or attempts to commit any felony, and, in the perpetration or the attempted perpetration of such felony or in the flight from the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony, another person is killed as a result of the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony or immediate flight from the perpetration of such felony or attempted perpetration of such felony. 2. Murder in the second degree is a class A felony, and the punishment for second degree murder shall be in addition to the punishment for commission of a related felony or attempted felony, other than murder or manslaughter. 3. Notwithstanding section 556.046 and section 565.025, in any charge of murder in the second degree, the jury shall be instructed on, or, in a jury-waived trial, the judge shall consider, any and all of the subdivisions in subsection 1 of this section which are supported by the evidence and requested by one of the parties or the court. http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5650000021.htm Sorry but not one word of that disagrees with my position. He may have had the property before it became a problem. If not I doubt that the real estate agent told him. I know you personally don't think he deserved to die but others on here do, most specifically Domken.

tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 1:46:20 PM)
Your disagreement is with the charge. How is the charge not appropriate?

Charles6682 -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 1:48:02 PM)
The Zimmerman trial just happened to get National Media attention. The "Stand Your Ground" law is being abused by many down here now, including criminals. I read the local paper here and keep up with local,state,national and international news. The Stand Your Ground law is being invoked more and more for things that I wouldn't even consider "self defense". quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Charles6682 Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed. No it isn't so no it doesn't

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 1:49:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Charles6682 The Zimmerman trial just happened to get National Media attention. The "Stand Your Ground" law is being abused by many down here now, including drugdealers and criminals. I read the local paper here and keep up with local,state,national and international news. The Stand Your Ground law is being invoked more and more for things that I wouldn't even consider "self defense". quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Charles6682 Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed. No it isn't so no it doesn't Invoked is not the same a successfully invoked.

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 1:56:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Your disagreement is with the charge. How is the charge not appropriate? The matter of it being his property, the expert quoted by the Post Dispatch said it is decided on a case by case basis that will be a problem for the prosecution even if they decide it was easement. The confrontation clearly began on his property another problem. The party had been drinking and were aggressive not only refusing to defuse the situation but intensifying it. Big problem. The shooting was set off by the victim's action regardless of how you view his intent. None of this negates his guilt but it sure will muddy the waters if they focus on murder.

eulero83 -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 2:05:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I believe he is saying this happened in the US, he meant Italian heritage, if we give him the benefit of the doubt, I think. right i missread, I'm not used to people defining themself by heritage, but I also confused the parts as here is not such a thing as a black man in a neighbourhood watch, too. [:D] No such thing as a black neighborhood watch member? Have you checked the roster of every neighborhood watch in the country?. I was ironic... but the political and ethnical situation is different here I can tell you that's very very unlikely, it would not be difficoult to check as they must register and there are 4 in the whole country.

BamaD -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/27/2013 2:16:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I believe he is saying this happened in the US, he meant Italian heritage, if we give him the benefit of the doubt, I think. right i missread, I'm not used to people defining themself by heritage, but I also confused the parts as here is not such a thing as a black man in a neighbourhood watch, too. [:D] No such thing as a black neighborhood watch member? Have you checked the roster of every neighborhood watch in the country?. I was ironic... but the political and ethnical situation is different here I can tell you that's very very unlikely, it would not be difficoult to check as they must register and there are 4 in the whole country. There are far more neighborhood watches and I am reasonably sure that some of them have black members

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