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RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 10:42:03 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Got a link for that case?

Ah.. never mind... you refer to the Roderick Scott case.

I think you need to look up the particulars in that case.

http://themartialist.net/?p=306

If it is the Scott case he got every detail wrong, for starters that shooting took place this year.
I would also like a link to the actual case.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:05:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		That shooting took place in 2009.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490556/roderick-scott-claims-self-defense-in-teen-s-shooting/

Roderick Scott told the court he shot Christopher Cervini in self-defense.

Just so you know this is the case they are speaking about....

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t982625/

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/27/2013 12:08:54 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:14:51 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:18:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That shooting took place in 2009.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490556/roderick-scott-claims-self-defense-in-teen-s-shooting/

Roderick Scott told the court he shot Christopher Cervini in self-defense.

Just so you know this is the case they are speaking about....

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t982625/

I am familiar with the Scott case but it happened in 2013, not 2009 so I am still unfamiliar with the 2009 case and there are not enough details to find it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:19:03 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:21:05 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement.

And I am still trying to find the original link again.
In any case making a move to, for, or swiping at the gun arm will all intensify the situation not calm it down.
Once he started to move on Crocker he was going to have to subdue him or someone would get shot.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:22:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed.

No it isn't so no it doesn't

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:31:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement.

And I am still trying to find the original link again.
In any case making a move to, for, or swiping at the gun arm will all intensify the situation not calm it down.
Once he started to move on Crocker he was going to have to subdue him or someone would get shot.


The victim moved between them. He shot the man from 3 feet away.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:38:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

James Crocker, 59, of Steelville, is charged with second-degree murder. He is in the Crawford County Jail on a $650,000 cash-only bond.

According to a probable cause statement filed by the Crawford County Sheriff’s Department, detectives asked Crocker if he could have called law enforcement when the group refused to leave.

To which Crocker replied, “I guess I could have, but it’s my property and I was going to protect it.”

Crocker stated several times in the interview he was going to protect his property and if he would have left (to call police) the people would have been gone before law enforcement arrived, according to detectives.

Detectives then asked him even if the people had left, wouldn’t have that been the desired result.

Crocker’s reply according to the report was, “Yeah that would have worked too.”

http://dailyjournalonline.com/news/local/hearing-set-for-meramec-river-shooter/article_918faee5-1c4f-5b6d-a610-195bceb81811.html

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:43:21 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And Im still waiting on the "swiping" statement.

And I am still trying to find the original link again.
In any case making a move to, for, or swiping at the gun arm will all intensify the situation not calm it down.
Once he started to move on Crocker he was going to have to subdue him or someone would get shot.


The victim moved between them. He shot the man from 3 feet away.

Crocker jumped back and shot surely you know that.
Why are you still trying to convince me that Crocker is guilty when I have already said, repeatedly, that I think he is?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/27/2013 12:44:57 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:48:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I am trying to figure out your position. You claim now he is.... but you are trying your best to defend his actions. I find nothing in his actions to defend once the trespasser left his woods.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 12:56:03 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I am trying to figure out your position. You claim now he is.... but you are trying your best to defend his actions. I find nothing in his actions to defend once the trespasser left his woods.

Look at my first post I said I thought he was guilty of manslaughter from the start not just now.
Because I want justice not stinging him up because he had a gun like many on here are doing, see Domkens comment on beating him to death.
These things are never as cut and dried as we would like for them to be.
They were drunk, and behaved as drunks do.
This doesn't make him right which I have stated on at least half the pages of this thread but if you can get past he had a gun so he deserves to die you have to at least consider that manslaughter is more appropriate than murder.
That is my position it is simple and I have repeated it often.
Mitigating circumstances means things that will lessen the charges, not things that will get him off.
Do you want him to walk because he is overcharged?
Or would you prefer a slam dunk manslaughter charge?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/27/2013 1:00:00 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 1:17:16 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

This doesn't make him right which I have stated on at least half the pages of this thread but if you can get past he had a gun so he deserves to die you have to at least consider that manslaughter is more appropriate than murder.


I OWN a gun. I dont think he deserves to die because he had one... nor because he defended his property with one. However, I do think he was incredibly reckless for shooting into the ground at peoples' feet. I do think he was in a snit of anger and no one was going to tell him what to do. I do think he was fed up with people along the river.... but why buy property there since its a known problem.

People cannot hide behind a firearm to do any ole thing they want simply because they can.

quote:

Mitigating circumstances means things that will lessen the charges, not things that will get him off.
Do you want him to walk because he is overcharged?
Or would you prefer a slam dunk manslaughter charge?


James Crocker, 59, of Steelville, is charged with second-degree murder. He is in the Crawford County Jail on a $650,000 cash-only bond.

This is the initial charge. It may change. However, the following is the Missouri code

Second degree murder, penalty.
565.021. 1. A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if he:

(1) Knowingly causes the death of another person or, with the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, causes the death of another person; or

(2) Commits or attempts to commit any felony, and, in the perpetration or the attempted perpetration of such felony or in the flight from the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony, another person is killed as a result of the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony or immediate flight from the perpetration of such felony or attempted perpetration of such felony.

2. Murder in the second degree is a class A felony, and the punishment for second degree murder shall be in addition to the punishment for commission of a related felony or attempted felony, other than murder or manslaughter.

3. Notwithstanding section 556.046 and section 565.025, in any charge of murder in the second degree, the jury shall be instructed on, or, in a jury-waived trial, the judge shall consider, any and all of the subdivisions in subsection 1 of this section which are supported by the evidence and requested by one of the parties or the court.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5650000021.htm



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 1:42:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

This doesn't make him right which I have stated on at least half the pages of this thread but if you can get past he had a gun so he deserves to die you have to at least consider that manslaughter is more appropriate than murder.


I OWN a gun. I dont think he deserves to die because he had one... nor because he defended his property with one. However, I do think he was incredibly reckless for shooting into the ground at peoples' feet. I do think he was in a snit of anger and no one was going to tell him what to do. I do think he was fed up with people along the river.... but why buy property there since its a known problem.

People cannot hide behind a firearm to do any ole thing they want simply because they can.

quote:

Mitigating circumstances means things that will lessen the charges, not things that will get him off.
Do you want him to walk because he is overcharged?
Or would you prefer a slam dunk manslaughter charge?


James Crocker, 59, of Steelville, is charged with second-degree murder. He is in the Crawford County Jail on a $650,000 cash-only bond.

This is the initial charge. It may change. However, the following is the Missouri code

Second degree murder, penalty.
565.021. 1. A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if he:

(1) Knowingly causes the death of another person or, with the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, causes the death of another person; or

(2) Commits or attempts to commit any felony, and, in the perpetration or the attempted perpetration of such felony or in the flight from the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony, another person is killed as a result of the perpetration or attempted perpetration of such felony or immediate flight from the perpetration of such felony or attempted perpetration of such felony.

2. Murder in the second degree is a class A felony, and the punishment for second degree murder shall be in addition to the punishment for commission of a related felony or attempted felony, other than murder or manslaughter.

3. Notwithstanding section 556.046 and section 565.025, in any charge of murder in the second degree, the jury shall be instructed on, or, in a jury-waived trial, the judge shall consider, any and all of the subdivisions in subsection 1 of this section which are supported by the evidence and requested by one of the parties or the court.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5650000021.htm



Sorry but not one word of that disagrees with my position.
He may have had the property before it became a problem.
If not I doubt that the real estate agent told him.
I know you personally don't think he deserved to die but others on here do, most specifically Domken.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/27/2013 1:45:01 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 1:46:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Your disagreement is with the charge. How is the charge not appropriate?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 1:48:02 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		The Zimmerman trial just happened to get National Media attention. The "Stand Your Ground" law is being abused by many down here now, including criminals. I read the local paper here and keep up with local,state,national and international news. The Stand Your Ground law is being invoked more and more for things that I wouldn't even consider "self defense".


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed.

No it isn't so no it doesn't


_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 1:49:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

The Zimmerman trial just happened to get National Media attention. The "Stand Your Ground" law is being abused by many down here now, including drugdealers and criminals. I read the local paper here and keep up with local,state,national and international news. The Stand Your Ground law is being invoked more and more for things that I wouldn't even consider "self defense".


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Stand Your Ground?! Welcome to FloriDUH! People down here have been complaining about this "vigilante" law for years now. I am all for self defense but as the whole nation can finally see, Stand Your Ground is not about self defense, its about vigilantism and needs to be repealed.

No it isn't so no it doesn't


Invoked is not the same a successfully invoked.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 1:56:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Your disagreement is with the charge. How is the charge not appropriate?

The matter of it being his property, the expert quoted by the Post Dispatch said it is decided on a case by case basis that will be a problem for the prosecution even if they decide it was easement.
The confrontation clearly began on his property another problem.
The party had been drinking and were aggressive not only refusing to defuse the situation but intensifying it. Big problem.
The shooting was set off by the victim's action regardless of how you view his intent.
None of this negates his guilt but it sure will muddy the waters if they focus on murder.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 2:05:46 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I believe he is saying this happened in the US, he meant Italian heritage, if we give him the benefit of the doubt, I think.


right i missread, I'm not used to people defining themself by heritage, but I also confused the parts as here is not such a thing as a black man in a neighbourhood watch, too.

No such thing as a black neighborhood watch member? Have you checked the roster of every neighborhood watch in the country?.


I was ironic... but the political and ethnical situation is different here I can tell you that's very very unlikely, it would not be difficoult to check as they must register and there are 4 in the whole country.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! - 7/27/2013 2:16:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I believe he is saying this happened in the US, he meant Italian heritage, if we give him the benefit of the doubt, I think.


right i missread, I'm not used to people defining themself by heritage, but I also confused the parts as here is not such a thing as a black man in a neighbourhood watch, too.

No such thing as a black neighborhood watch member? Have you checked the roster of every neighborhood watch in the country?.


I was ironic... but the political and ethnical situation is different here I can tell you that's very very unlikely, it would not be difficoult to check as they must register and there are 4 in the whole country.


There are far more neighborhood watches and I am reasonably sure that some of them have black members

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to eulero83)
Profile   Post #: 340
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