RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 1:44:54 PM)

I was thinking more along the lines of injuries sustained on the easement itself.



mnottertail -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 1:47:22 PM)

on the road probably not. between the lakeshore and the road? High risk of my being held liable, yes.



tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:09:26 PM)

Now, wait, I thought a gravel bar was like a sand bar.



DomKen -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:15:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Now, wait, I thought a gravel bar was like a sand bar.

it is. He's also talking about a gravel road that runs along the river on his property



tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:17:23 PM)

Ah ok... so.. if this all happened on the gravel bar, where does the easement come into play?



mnottertail -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:17:30 PM)

I have "land" between the ordinary low and high, not in water, but wetland. Not a gravel bar or sand bar in the water or at the edge, but muck and cattails sink in up to your ass some places.



DomKen -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:17:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Fuckin Sie A. And that water is big costly, big costly. Water is accessed at lakeshore rates, and the road is on agricultural land, so taxed in with agricultural land. Beyond that, I also pay township taxes on it and all the other taxes and mills. As if it was all mine to do as I please.


That is insane. The easement should at least reduce the tax rate.



mnottertail -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:18:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ah ok... so.. if this all happened on the gravel bar, where does the easement come into play?


because the low water mark and the high water mark may be many, many, many feet or yards of difference.



tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:19:29 PM)

Ok.. so does it start at the low water mark or the high? I thought it was the high



DomKen -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:19:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ah ok... so.. if this all happened on the gravel bar, where does the easement come into play?

The easement for a navigable waterway extends from the high water mark. So the gravel bar is exposed right now but at some point in the year it is under water so it is in the easement.



mnottertail -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:21:27 PM)

Think of it like tides and the ocean for now, not quite right, but the low water you can see the bottom, high water not. However there are historical high and low water marks on inland waters taken in droughts (my lake was dry and they hayed it in the dirty thirties) and flood years.

all averaged out, the lows, and all averaged out the highs and that is the easement.



tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:22:04 PM)

Just like a sand bar in the ocean... sorry, I never lived close to rivers or streams, so I am trying toget all this in a way that I can wrap my head around it.

So, the easments.... private owned, but public allowed access?



mnottertail -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:24:19 PM)

I own into the bed of the lake I own the water as well, I have no right to it due to the high-low water mark difference in federal trust.

The guy probably actually does own the sandbar for the august honor of paying taxes on the fuckin thing, but thats about it.



tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:26:18 PM)

Like the easement between houses to a public beach... gotcha.



mnottertail -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:27:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Just like a sand bar in the ocean... sorry, I never lived close to rivers or streams, so I am trying toget all this in a way that I can wrap my head around it.

So, the easments.... private owned, but public allowed access?



Just like the land under your sidewalks baby, pay, but no play. Your city boulevard in essence. Don't shovel the ice off it, it is your ass, but the easement is to the entire country if they want it.



tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:28:46 PM)

Ok.. so... the land owner walks down to tell them to get off his property... I am assuming he meant the woods... but only one was in the woods. Once they hit the water mark, he should have stopped.



mnottertail -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:43:02 PM)

http://www.ottertailcounty.net/flexviewers/harn/

in the center you will see a big big lake. just above it you will see a long funny sort of lake. zoom in a little less than half way, and you should see that the big lake is otter tail lake, the long funny lake is long lake and if you zoom in too far west it is walker lake, get to long lake. pull it down to get the west end of long lake on your screen.

Zoom into it exactly half way. you will see a red 36 that is section 36 dead lake township. inside the black line you will see an elevation number 1343 and my house is the black square below it. I own that half of the section (the east half to the lake and the section is bordered on the east and south by the wavy black line, you will see the road, the big chunk of water I pay taxes on, but only own for taxes.

Meandered road, meandered land and the low water mark is about out there on the east and south wavy line, thats alotta shit aint mine to pay for.



Powergamz1 -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 2:48:29 PM)

Let me know when you find the part in there that says 'And we hold 471 U.S. 1,105 S. Ct. 1694, 85 L. Ed. 2d 1,1985 U.S. to be invalid in these circumstances'.[:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Skinner v. Osage County, 822 S.W.2d 437
(1991)

I keep seeing this case cited in reference to the gravel bars.

I couldnt shoot someone accessing the beach if they used the "public easement" from my house. Its my understanding that if they were below the water mark, its not considered "private property". He may own it, but its still not property he can drive people off from.




tazzygirl -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 3:08:21 PM)

That phrase or that case you cite isnt used in Skinner. No clue what you are on about.

TENNESSEE, Appellant, v. Cleamtee GARNER, etc., et al. MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT, et al., Petitioners, v. Cleamtee GARNER, etc., et al.

471 U.S. 1 (105 S.Ct. 1694, 85 L.Ed.2d 1)




Powergamz1 -> RE: Stand your ground in Missouri OH NO!!! (7/25/2013 4:02:12 PM)

No amount of pointless discussion about waterways and easements is going to take away any American citizen's right to self defense, no matter how badly you wish that right to be reserved for the elite.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That phrase or that case you cite isnt used in Skinner. No clue what you are on about.

TENNESSEE, Appellant, v. Cleamtee GARNER, etc., et al. MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT, et al., Petitioners, v. Cleamtee GARNER, etc., et al.

471 U.S. 1 (105 S.Ct. 1694, 85 L.Ed.2d 1)






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