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The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 3:00:11 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
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Since I get too many conflicting info here on the forum from some of my fellow euros I make this thread. I don't feel like hoppin from thread to thread to educate people.
You want to learn from you're welcome to visit this thread.
To make it easy on y'all I numbered to upcoming subjects.

#1 The European Union is it a superstate or a union and what power does the EU have over it's members?

#2 Social security, economics, law and other various problems per seperate countries in the EU

#3 Immigration troubles within the EU

#4 Healthcare within the EU

I'm gonna post links on this thread from reasonable reliable sources and I will tell you what institution.

I advise in advance don't make your posts page long, be concise and we can have a real discussion about everything. When you try to troll with nonsense you have to be prepared to be ridiculed a bit. All in good fun sports!

I am busy today so dont have too much time, but I will try to reply to all questions.

Some posts about the subjects I am preparing to give you an idea of what I am talkin about.
Since healthcare was a big issue I will start to unravel that first.

Post #: 1

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 3:17:20 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I don't feel like hoppin from thread to thread to educate people.

K.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 2

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 3:37:34 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I cant wait....... Pass the popcorn please K

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 3

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 3:55:12 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

I'm not so sure our friends from the US will understand much of what you're talking about here.
But I'll jump in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Since I get too many conflicting info here on the forum from some of my fellow euros I make this thread. I don't feel like hoppin from thread to thread to educate people.
You want to learn from you're welcome to visit this thread.
To make it easy on y'all I numbered to upcoming subjects.

#1 The European Union is it a superstate or a union and what power does the EU have over it's members?

#2 Social security, economics, law and other various problems per seperate countries in the EU

#3 Immigration troubles within the EU

#4 Healthcare within the EU

I'm gonna post links on this thread from reasonable reliable sources and I will tell you what institution.

I advise in advance don't make your posts page long, be concise and we can have a real discussion about everything. When you try to troll with nonsense you have to be prepared to be ridiculed a bit. All in good fun sports!

I am busy today so dont have too much time, but I will try to reply to all questions.

Some posts about the subjects I am preparing to give you an idea of what I am talkin about.
Since healthcare was a big issue I will start to unravel that first.

#1: Europe is neither superstate nor union. It has failed to be either.
The idea was for a handful of the richer nations to pull together to form a much bigger trading block to compete with the likes of the far east and the USA. It has been over 40 years now and we still haven't managed to create a single international trading agreement as a "block" and everything is still negotiated around the world as single individual countries.
It's a mish-mash of countries that have got together to hopefully become a superstate.
The problem is, since they let in the last 15 or so of the poorest countries in recent years, they are draining the money pot reserves faster than the richer (original) countries can keep it topped up.
Hence all the disquiet over recent years because those countries have effectively bankrupted the good idea that started it all off in the late 60's and early 70's.

#2: So much for the superstate! Every single country is so vastly different in every aspect of these subjects that unless you've lived in them for any length of time, the political rules, attitudes in society etc, are all so very different. And from what I can see, most countries seem to ignore the European laws when it suits them.

#3: There are no immigration troubles within the EU at all. They all seem to want to transit through Europe to get to the UK because we're sooo easy and relaxed about giving them everything they ever needed - at the expense of the native Brits I might add!

#4: As per #2, every country is very different. The E11 health card was supposed to even things out between the EU countries so everyone knew what sort of health care they could expect if they went abroad. But, as we have seen many times, other EU countries are not abiding by the EU directives and still enforcing their own healthcare rules over the EU laws.
So the EU is still failing dismally. It's still not a superstate nor a proper 'union' as such - yet.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 4

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 4:17:50 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

Thanks for your opinion, there is a thing or two I can add to your views. I know the UK is very popular to end up, not just because of great care, but mainly in my view english is the easiest language to learn fast and it's a major country within the EU. So you have lots of places to go to and a lot of working jobs in different fields.
I saw a program on TV a while back I will look up the link about vietnamese druggangs infiltrating the UK on a large scale.
BrB.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/sep/11/ukcrime.drugsandalcohol

Since Amsterdam is no longer the drugcapital of the world many countries are now involved in large scale cannabisplantations to provide the local market. Things have changed drastically the last decade with the drugtrade.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 7/27/2013 4:22:40 AM >

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 5

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 4:54:27 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

Several European nations, where universal health care has been the norm for decades, have been waging their own intense debates as they also deal with aging populations and rising costs.

Britain passed a new health care measure earlier this month, after more than a year of rancorous debate. Can the European experience cast some light on the American debate over health care?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/03/28/149564583/like-the-u-s-europe-wrestles-with-health-care

This is little piece of a larger one. The bottomline within healtcare costs is that we are aging rapidly. Dementia is gaining ground and our healthcare system will become unaffordable very soon.
The problem is people here think that we are all insured just as long as you pay your tax. Loads of people cant and become uninsured because of the poor livingstandards that are growing rapidly in Europe. The old story the poorer become more poor and the rich richer.
I am all for universal healthcare but overhead costs of hospitals are almost absurd.
The statement was made you can walk into any hospital in Europe and get free treatment. Free treatment of what? There is a lot of things that are not insured and insurancecompanies are like banks these days. Unscrupulous businessmen.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 6

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 5:17:04 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

ROME — Underscoring the new Italian government's determination to crack down on illegal immigration and crime, the authorities this week arrested hundreds of people in a massive sweep of shantytowns in major urban areas across the country.

The police said Wednesday that 118 people were immediately expelled and nearly 400 arrested. An additional 111 were accused of immigration crimes - 180 on thievery or prostitution charges, and 92 connected with drug dealing. Those arrested Thursday included 50 Moroccans and 32 Romanians.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/world/europe/15iht-italy.4.12932729.html?_r=0

Immigration becomes a large problem for the EU. the crisis keeps on going and economic refugees are floating in on crappy boats.

Reuters video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0cRHuJIk6M

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 7

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 5:28:48 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

The Dutch government is investigating doctors' claims that hospitals are increasingly refusing uninsured patients—such as homeless people and illegal immigrants—their right to “medically necessary care” under the new national health insurance system, which took effect in January.

Two Rotterdam doctors, who work with homeless people, drug misusers, and illegal immigrants in the deprived inner city, voiced their concerns in the Dutch Medical Association's journal Medisch Contact (Medisch Contact 2006; 61:843) They are treating more than 20 uninsured patients every week who have been denied hospital treatment, they say.

Marie Kok and Frans Sikken say …

http://www.bmj.com/content/332/7553/1293.1?rss=

Some 241 thousand people have no medical insurance

On 1 May 2006, some 241 thousand people in the Netherlands were not insured for the costs of medical care. This 1.5 percent of the Dutch population. People with a foreign background are relatively more likely not to be insured than native Dutch people. Many families with children are also not insured for medical costs. The percentage of uninsured among benefit claimants on the other hand was relatively low, according to figures form Statistics Netherlands. The new figure of 241 thousand is higher than previously published estimate of 182 thousand on 5 July 2006. This is because a more accurate method was used.
Foreigners five times as likely not to be insured

http://www.cbs.nl/en-GB/menu/themas/gezondheid-welzijn/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2007/2007-034-pb.htm

You can take it from my sources numbers are increasing.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 7/27/2013 5:43:00 AM >

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 8

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 6:03:27 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

I don't know why you keep harping on about 'uninsured' people when it comes to healthcare.

The whole point of the E11 was that you were given the necessary healthcare that you would expect from your native country and whatever bills were incurred were sent to the relevant country.

Sadly, in recent years, that is no longer the case around the EU.
Many countries are still imposing their own healthcare rules in spite of the E11 documents.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 9

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 6:12:15 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I don't know why you keep harping on about 'uninsured' people when it comes to healthcare.

The whole point of the E11 was that you were given the necessary healthcare that you would expect from your native country and whatever bills were incurred were sent to the relevant country.

Sadly, in recent years, that is no longer the case around the EU.
Many countries are still imposing their own healthcare rules in spite of the E11 documents.

Exactly my point dwarf thanks. But 'americans' might think we're all dappirydoodle insured no prob. It is a big problem in many countries and growing.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 10

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 6:16:04 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I cant wait....... Pass the popcorn please K

Didn't you have enuff already???

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 11

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 6:34:32 AM

eulero83

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Since I get too many conflicting info here on the forum from some of my fellow euros I make this thread. I don't feel like hoppin from thread to thread to educate people.
You want to learn from you're welcome to visit this thread.
To make it easy on y'all I numbered to upcoming subjects.

#1 The European Union is it a superstate or a union and what power does the EU have over it's members?

#2 Social security, economics, law and other various problems per seperate countries in the EU

#3 Immigration troubles within the EU

#4 Healthcare within the EU

I'm gonna post links on this thread from reasonable reliable sources and I will tell you what institution.

I advise in advance don't make your posts page long, be concise and we can have a real discussion about everything. When you try to troll with nonsense you have to be prepared to be ridiculed a bit. All in good fun sports!

I am busy today so dont have too much time, but I will try to reply to all questions.

Some posts about the subjects I am preparing to give you an idea of what I am talkin about.
Since healthcare was a big issue I will start to unravel that first.

I try to keep myself neutral about how I think than any aspect of the european union and answer your question:

#1 european union is a series of treaties whose reason to be is to guarntee the free trade and circulation of goods and poeple among the member states and to promote a free competitive international market among the member states, this is possible with suppression of customhouses on borders and custom duties for example, than any citizen of a member country is free to travel or live or work in any other member country without a visa and if in need of health care has the right to access the same treatment the citizen of the hosting country have, or also as an example for public contracts that have more than a certain value competition must be open to any contractor from a member country that has a certification to prove it can perform required works or provide demanded services. There is also the possibility to adopt a common currency and if a country wants to di it must keep some parameters in the debt/pil rate and other things to guarntee it's economical stability, but this is a different and separate treaty.
About what does the european union: it has a central parlament that don't produce any law but directives about certain subjects than the member countries must produce local laws accordant both to the directive and the local economy and standards, if a governament doesn't adeguate it has to pay forfeits. The european parlament seats are divided i suppose by census among the member countries and than citizens of single countries elect their representatives, the elected than form groups by political ideas and not by national provenience.

#2 social security, economical policies, laws are exclusive of the single nation and it would be too long to explain everything just for my country.

#3 solving external immigration problems is demanded the single nations that have the duties to patrol their borders with not member nations, this makes more impegnative for the countries on the border of the union, internal immigration among the union is free guaranteed by schengen treaty, and this gives more difficoulties for keeping public safety as also criminals are more free to move from nation to nation.

#4 health care can be very different in different nation, as I already said any citizen of a member nation if traveling or living in another member nation has the right to access the same health care system the hosting nation's citizens have access to, but health care systems can be very different from different nations, for example netherland has a private health care system with two different kind of insurance one national that covers long hospitalization and for other kind of treatments it's necessary a private insurance or to privately pay, so if traveling in netherland you need an insurance for the time you're gonna spend there, in italy health care is mostly pubblic and free, doctors can work part time for national health care and part time for private hospitals, or also as private professional in pubblic hospitals, the main difference between national or private health care are waiting times, if you pay you have a shorter line, for some treatments dues are required but some categories are esonerated from them too.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 12

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 6:38:54 AM

eulero83

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The whole point of the E11 was that you were given the necessary healthcare that you would expect from your native country and whatever bills were incurred were sent to the relevant country.

not the native but the visiting country

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 13

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 7:18:28 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The whole point of the E11 was that you were given the necessary healthcare that you would expect from your native country and whatever bills were incurred were sent to the relevant country.

not the native but the visiting country

Thanks for the correction I will check it.

(in reply to eulero83)

Post #: 14

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 8:10:53 AM

eulero83

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

The whole point of the E11 was that you were given the necessary healthcare that you would expect from your native country and whatever bills were incurred were sent to the relevant country.

not the native but the visiting country

Thanks for the correction I will check it.

official informative page

"under the same conditions and at the same cost (free in some countries) as people insured in that country"

and than:

"does not guarantee free services. As each country’s healthcare system is different services that cost nothing at home might not be free in another country."

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 15

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 9:13:45 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

That helped I had a perfectly cooked arab omelet and just wanna add something for the evening. I want Europe to be a superstate with individual laws. I paid dear for it.

(in reply to eulero83)

Post #: 16

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 2:08:14 PM

eulero83

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I want Europe to be a superstate with individual laws.

this would solve some problems but I'd prefer move to swisse

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 17

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 3:40:43 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Several European nations, where universal health care has been the norm for decades, have been waging their own intense debates as they also deal with aging populations and rising costs.

Britain passed a new health care measure earlier this month, after more than a year of rancorous debate. Can the European experience cast some light on the American debate over health care?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/03/28/149564583/like-the-u-s-europe-wrestles-with-health-care

Laughable.......your link is 16 months out of date. That shows just how much of it you have actually read.

If you have an emergency you can walk into any EU hospital and get free treatment. Care to show me otherwise.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 18

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 3:50:18 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The whole point of the E11 was that you were given the necessary healthcare that you would expect from your native country and whatever bills were incurred were sent to the relevant country.

not the native but the visiting country

Not according to my local MP here.
The E11 health card gives me the treatment anywhere in the EU that I would normally expect to recieve in the UK - for FREE.

And I've just spoken to a friend who is a Brit studying in Norway.
She gets her healthcare free also because she is covered under the E11 scheme where the healthcare is paid for by the UK tax payers (ie, free). She doesn't pay a single red cent and does not have to have separate health insurance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
If you have an emergency you can walk into any EU hospital and get free treatment. Care to show me otherwise.

Yep. That's exactly what my MP told me today.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 7/27/2013 3:53:58 PM >

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 19

RE: The EURO P&R - 7/27/2013 4:07:16 PM

eulero83

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
The whole point of the E11 was that you were given the necessary healthcare that you would expect from your native country and whatever bills were incurred were sent to the relevant country.

not the native but the visiting country

Not according to my local MP here.
The E11 health card gives me the treatment anywhere in the EU that I would normally expect to recieve in the UK - for FREE.

And I've just spoken to a friend who is a Brit studying in Norway.
She gets her healthcare free also because she is covered under the E11 scheme where the healthcare is paid for by the UK tax payers (ie, free). She doesn't pay a single red cent and does not have to have separate health insurance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
If you have an emergency you can walk into any EU hospital and get free treatment. Care to show me otherwise.

Yep. That's exactly what my MP told me today.

can you cite an official source? because it's different to what I read from the european commission website, by the way the norway doesn't demostrate that you have the same treatment in the uk unless the cares they recived require to be paid by norwegian citizens, if norwigian get it free an uk citizen would get it free because it's the hosting nation standard.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 20

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