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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/28/2013 5:58:35 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Obviously, it's up to our UK friends to decide whether to retire the monarchy or not.


Strictly speaking we can't retire the monarchy, DCN. The monarch is 'above' democracy: as subjects, we're subject to her will (that's what the word means). She tells us what she wants from us, not vice versa. Yep, I know it's ridiculous, but there we are: the majority of Brits enjoy that feeling.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 7/28/2013 5:59:07 PM >

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/28/2013 6:13:50 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		I read once that HM said "We'll go quietly" should the UK decide to become a republic, but I can't remember where, alas.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/28/2013 11:46:05 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

No she cant, thats just more bullshit...... Didnt you read any of Zeppos posts ? Your blatherings on the topic are seriously deluded.



yeh and I countered in spades. Didnt you notice?

Feel free to quote the queens/crowns explicit relinquishing of their right.

that does not mean a mob declaration, and not that I believe for a new york second that you understand the core elements of what I am talking about, basically it means an official [insert label here] divestiture of right and interest from the moarch.



No, I didnt notice anything relevant except in your own mind.

Youre boring me alredy with the suggestion Parliament is mob mentality and therefore not legaly able to make laws.


for shit sake.

why do you think the american constitution stipulates that the US will honor all debt obligations? the king said you slaves want to run your own house fine just make damn sure I get fuckin PAID!

The crown has a direct and immediate and "underlying" interest in the united states which on the pole of pecking order puts us on the bottom of the pile.

The only people that I have seen dumb enough to believe america actually won the revolutionary war in a sense that it severed ties between the us and uk are smoking some really good shit.

I am taking note how you and other brits dodge that "FACT" as well.


quick history lesson:

so america won the revolutionary war huh?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/28/2013 11:49:00 PM >

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 3:01:51 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Obviously, it's up to our UK friends to decide whether to retire the monarchy or not.


Strictly speaking we can't retire the monarchy, DCN. The monarch is 'above' democracy: as subjects, we're subject to her will (that's what the word means). She tells us what she wants from us, not vice versa. Yep, I know it's ridiculous, but there we are: the majority of Brits enjoy that feeling.


"Subjects" Peon ? dear me, thats a bit behind the times.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 3:05:29 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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Status: offline 		Real0ne.... Gotta love the way you wallow in your own bullshit.

Noticed how many of your fellow citizens are just chomping at the bit to back up your idiotic claims ? ..... Nope, me either.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 3:13:39 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You including republicanism in that too Peon ?





Indeedies. But the thing about republicans is that they generally know that they've bought into an ideology. Monarchists typically don't, from what I've seen. They tend to think they just hold to the 'normal', 'natural', 'middle of the road' . . . . Strange. But there's no more effective ideology than one whose adherents think it's normal, natural and middle of the road.

Really, PS. How reasonable is it that our future titular head of state will only be in that position because he's the son of the one before? It's monumentally stupid. And embarrassing.


Yet there is no major clamour for change Peon. Remember what happened last time we were a commonwealth under the Cromwells? My problem with the republican viewpoint is it focuses on the Royals while the well and the good rip off the rest of us. Compared to that, the upkeep of the royals is small beer. As you said yourself, its only a formal title with no real authority (Titular)

Time would be best served getting rid of all the rip-off merchants first, the ones really sucking up the nations wealth dry.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 3:24:09 AM   
thezeppo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You including republicanism in that too Peon ?





Indeedies. But the thing about republicans is that they generally know that they've bought into an ideology. Monarchists typically don't, from what I've seen. They tend to think they just hold to the 'normal', 'natural', 'middle of the road' . . . . Strange. But there's no more effective ideology than one whose adherents think it's normal, natural and middle of the road.

Really, PS. How reasonable is it that our future titular head of state will only be in that position because he's the son of the one before? It's monumentally stupid. And embarrassing.


Yet there is no major clamour for change Peon. Remember what happened last time we were a commonwealth under the Cromwells? My problem with the republican viewpoint is it focuses on the Royals while the well and the good rip off the rest of us. Compared to that, the upkeep of the royals is small beer. As you said yourself, its only a formal title with no real authority (Titular)

Time would be best served getting rid of all the rip-off merchants first, the ones really sucking up the nations wealth dry.



I would tend to side more with the republicans than the monarchist, although I have been talked around to the idea that the Queen has a positive impact as a female role model in society. I do have concerns that Charles may not be as agreeable as Her Maj with regards to symbolic nature of the title.

Its not top of my to-do list though, I agree there are more pressing matters at hand, such as winkling some tax money out of Jimmy Carr and his ilk.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 5:22:50 AM   
MariaB


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Status: offline 		Parliamentary sovereignty hardly exists today and the Crown has been reduced to mere formality. I firmly believe that our constitution has become unbalanced because the power of the Lords overrides restraining legislation that is favoured by the majority of its citizens.

No government should be free to violate without legal restraint but we have substituted our sovereignty so that the government have more power than the law itself.

Parliamentary sovereignty kept a rein on our constitution (It wasn't just one gate keeper holding the key, it was two) and now we are seeing huge constitutional change and very little of it is in its citizens favour.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 5:42:33 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thezeppo
I do have concerns that Charles may not be as agreeable as Her Maj with regards to symbolic nature of the title.


What craziness do you expect from wimpy Charles? Afraid he will madly start building things cuz of his architectural fetish or something???

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 5:54:56 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		And I have heard some of my British friends tell me that that American system of government is confusing.

Let me see if I got this right.

1) The royal family is mostly symbolic, with no real political power.

2) If the Queen were to try to use the power she allegedly has, the shit will hit the fan.

Right?

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 6:08:57 AM   
thezeppo


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Status: offline 		@jlf1961: That sounds about right to me

@TJ: I don't expect anything particularly, I'm not trying to suggest we are headed for civil war and ruination. I just find Charles more opinionated and less diplomatic than the queen. I wonder how he would have reacted if he were king when the fox hunting bill required royal assent for example.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 6:42:48 AM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

And I have heard some of my British friends tell me that that American system of government is confusing.

Let me see if I got this right.

1) The royal family is mostly symbolic, with no real political power.

2) If the Queen were to try to use the power she allegedly has, the shit will hit the fan.

Right?


Being used to a simillar system (the president of the repubblic has the same powers than the queen of england) but with more political instability, I can say that she should be a referee in the political competition between parties, electoral law and the balance between the tree powers in the uk prevents a change of the majority in parlament between two election, so she is like a referee in a 100m run and she's involved just to formalize resoults, if there was a different electoral law or more major parties so that they have each a smaller share a of votes (like n italy), this situation would be more like a football match where the referee has to be active in the game. And this happened in the uk in the 70's for what I read here.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 8:50:45 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thezeppo
@TJ: I don't expect anything particularly, I'm not trying to suggest we are headed for civil war and ruination. I just find Charles more opinionated and less diplomatic than the queen. I wonder how he would have reacted if he were king when the fox hunting bill required royal assent for example.

LOL.. well.. the Queens mum lived to 102, didnt she?.. so if she lives as long then you dont have to worry about Chuck for another 20 or so years.. hopefully he will mellow by then.. and live up to his responsibilities..

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 8:53:17 AM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

LOL.. well.. the Queens mum lived to 102, didnt she?.. so if she lives as long then you dont have to worry about Chuck for another 20 or so years.. hopefully he will mellow by then.. and live up to his responsibilities..


Lets look at Charles' past record.

Adultery... need we say much more?


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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 10:59:56 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

LOL.. well.. the Queens mum lived to 102, didnt she?.. so if she lives as long then you dont have to worry about Chuck for another 20 or so years.. hopefully he will mellow by then.. and live up to his responsibilities..


Lets look at Charles' past record.

Adultery... need we say much more?


and? I mean what % of the population has affairs? Is he supposed to be made of rock any more than any other human?

Not to mention that his marriage to Diana was a total mistake (he was in love with Camila since before that), but part of his Royal duties were to produce an heir and a spare, which he did with Diana. It is questionable he could have done that with Camila, plus she was separated or divorced anyway.. simply not acceptable.. So if you are talking about him doing his Royal duties & responsibilities, he did that even tho he didnt want to.. And in the end he finally made an honest woman of the home-wrecking trollop..

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 11:44:42 AM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Well, personally, I feel that if you cant keep marriage vows, you have a problem. I can honestly say I have never cheated on any one. I cannot say I have never been cheated on, but that is not the point.

Didnt an ancestor of Prince Charles abdicate the throne for love of a divorced woman? I mean Charles does have a younger brother, who had a marriage end in divorce, but I think it was the wife at fault in that one.

My point is that Charles has made some irresponsible decisions both in his personal life and public one. In all honesty, I never cared much for him anyway, his ears reminded me of the Bush family.

As for the marriage to Diana being a mistake, I agree. It was a mistake on both their parts.

Personally, I think the UK needs the Stewarts (Stuarts) which ever, restored to the monarchy, but I do believe the royal line of that family died out some time back.

As for the next to sit the throne, I would prefer to see William there instead of Charles.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 12:30:37 PM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Well, personally, I feel that if you cant keep marriage vows, you have a problem. I can honestly say I have never cheated on any one. I cannot say I have never been cheated on, but that is not the point.

Didnt an ancestor of Prince Charles abdicate the throne for love of a divorced woman? I mean Charles does have a younger brother, who had a marriage end in divorce, but I think it was the wife at fault in that one.

My point is that Charles has made some irresponsible decisions both in his personal life and public one. In all honesty, I never cared much for him anyway, his ears reminded me of the Bush family.

As for the marriage to Diana being a mistake, I agree. It was a mistake on both their parts.

Personally, I think the UK needs the Stewarts (Stuarts) which ever, restored to the monarchy, but I do believe the royal line of that family died out some time back.

As for the next to sit the throne, I would prefer to see William there instead of Charles.


I'd like to know what you think about Henry VIII of England

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 1:20:06 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

As for the next to sit the throne, I would prefer to see William there instead of Charles.

Well.. I dont know how much of the marriage was Diana's fault, imo not much cuz she was basically a naive almost-child and Charles lied to her.. thats why she was pissed when she figured it all out.. I dont blame her but that is the way things were set up, perhaps now seeing what a mistake that was, the Royals arent so willing to have a forced marriage as William and Kate are definately in love (or extremely good actors).. Everything is 20-20 in hindsight.. I seriously doubt Charles would have done that if he had known how bad things were gonna go.. He picked Diana cuz she was young, shy and demure and he thought he could control her.. boy, did he get that wrong!!! most men get that wrong tho But the past can not be changed so I think Charles has tried to be a better Royal in the wake of that, and cuz he was finally allowed to marry his real love.. tho some think him a little nutzo for that!

I think most people would rather see William instead of Charles be next on the throne but that would only happen if Charles decided to bow out, from what I understand..

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 2:59:15 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Well, personally, I feel that if you cant keep marriage vows, you have a problem. I can honestly say I have never cheated on any one. I cannot say I have never been cheated on, but that is not the point.

Didnt an ancestor of Prince Charles abdicate the throne for love of a divorced woman? I mean Charles does have a younger brother, who had a marriage end in divorce, but I think it was the wife at fault in that one.

My point is that Charles has made some irresponsible decisions both in his personal life and public one. In all honesty, I never cared much for him anyway, his ears reminded me of the Bush family.

As for the marriage to Diana being a mistake, I agree. It was a mistake on both their parts.

Personally, I think the UK needs the Stewarts (Stuarts) which ever, restored to the monarchy, but I do believe the royal line of that family died out some time back.

As for the next to sit the throne, I would prefer to see William there instead of Charles.


I'd like to know what you think about Henry VIII of England



Well actually, considering I was raised Catholic, I think he was batshit crazy. But then I think that most people who drink warm beer are batshit crazy.

My opinion of him is based only on what I have read, considering his change of mood after gaining the throne.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 3:44:11 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

"Subjects" Peon ? dear me, thats a bit behind the times.


It is, yes. That's one of the many reasons why it makes the idea of monarchy look silly.

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