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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 4:05:49 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Yet there is no major clamour for change Peon. Remember what happened last time we were a commonwealth under the Cromwells? My problem with the republican viewpoint is it focuses on the Royals while the well and the good rip off the rest of us. Compared to that, the upkeep of the royals is small beer. As you said yourself, its only a formal title with no real authority (Titular)

Time would be best served getting rid of all the rip-off merchants first, the ones really sucking up the nations wealth dry.



I'd agree with you re that priority. But, as for the rest of it: firstly, Cromwell? Oh come on, PS! Do you really think our political environment is the same as it was in Cromwell's day? *Nobody* is that conservative, especially not a conservative like you. You've argued for far more radical change in all kinds of contexts and across the globe on these boards - but this change is too much for you? Nah. Not credible. As for the idea that focusing on anti-monarchism distracts from the more important issue of preventing the fat cats from ripping us all off - again, I don't think so. Most of what happens whenever there's a special national focus on the royals has the effect of doing exactly the opposite: we're told, for instance, that 'in these times of economic gloom Kate and William's wedding will cheer us all up'. (A particularly vomit-inducing sentiment for non-monarchists, I should say.) The issue of anti-monarchism isn't a distraction and a major focus for any given political grouping that I can think of. Not even Marxists bang on about them - well, they wouldn't, because as we all know, the capitalists are their main enemy.

Lastly, you must see that this line of 'It's only formal stuff, nothing has any real substance to it anymore - we're not subjects to the monarch's will in any practical sense' isn't an argument in favour of the monarchy, it's much more an argument against them. It's tantamount to saying, 'Well, they don't do anything important anymore, so why not keep them?' Pretty obviously, others - like me - are going to say in response, 'If they're not doing anything important anymore, why the hell are we still shelling out huge wedges of money on them - most especially during these lean times when for the price of one royal wedding we could stop the closure of x hospitals?'





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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 4:27:53 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		I feel the Monarchy gives us a unique feel, and for relatively little cost. If you get rid of it, you are destroying a little of our heritage. As I said, there is little clamour for change.

As has been pointed out, reform of the Lords has only packed the ranks with Labour or Conservative cronies. My point about Cromwell may not be totally relevant in todays age, but it does show you need to be careful what you wish for. The cost of the Royal wedding was forecast at £10 million..... PwC accountants forecast the boost to Londons economy from those comming to watch on the day was £107 million.... The gain doesnt take much working out.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 4:41:57 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I feel the Monarchy gives us a unique feel, and for relatively little cost. If you get rid of it, you are destroying a little of our heritage. As I said, there is little clamour for change.


True, it's a minority that support wiping them away. And we all know that that that percentage always temporarily drops during a major royal event - like the recent birth of Geo, for instance. But given that, what would you say to the idea that those who want the monarchy can pay for them and those that don't, won't? After all, that would reflect two other fine old traditions of British culture: that of democracy, and that of the free market. Monarchists can sign up for their belief and put their money where their mouths are; us non-monarchists aren't forced to be attached to the whole panto. Makes sense, doesn't it?

ETA:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
The cost of the Royal wedding was forecast at £10 million..... PwC accountants forecast the boost to Londons economy from those comming to watch on the day was £107 million.... The gain doesnt take much working out.


For one thing, those figures are almost impossible to work out. For another, they're only temporary: the costs and benefits of a royal wedding are short term; the monarchy goes on and on. Mind you, as I'll repeat: wipe the monarchy and open up Buckingham Palace fully - *then* we might get shed loads more from tourism - albeit only to London. Having *once* had a monarchy seems to be great for tourism, as the French experience shows.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 7/29/2013 4:47:40 PM >

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 4:46:10 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Okay, what happened to tradition that the King, or in the situation where it is a Queen sitting on the throne, crown prince led troops into battle? Not trying to start a fight, but Harry saw action in Afghanistan, while William has to bend the rules to get risky duty at home. Should the choice belong to the Prince in question.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 4:47:13 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Democracy work how you think. I am unkeen on bombs and missles and would prefer better education for kids, but we cant pick and choose, or we no longer have a society working as one. I am unkeen on MPs expenses or excessive wages paid via the public purse, the list is endless.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 4:51:31 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Okay, what happened to tradition that the King, or in the situation where it is a Queen sitting on the throne, crown prince led troops into battle? Not trying to start a fight, but Harry saw action in Afghanistan, while William has to bend the rules to get risky duty at home. Should the choice belong to the Prince in question.



Good question..... Charles is next in-line so William and Harry were able to go on the front line, just as prince Andrew did in the Falklands (he was second in line until William was born)

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/29/2013 5:31:15 PM   
dcnovice


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The documentary Elizabeth R is a bit dated (1992), but it offers an interesting look at the Queen and her work.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/30/2013 1:40:24 AM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Okay, what happened to tradition that the King, or in the situation where it is a Queen sitting on the throne, crown prince led troops into battle?


mostly french revolution and rifles invention happened. Fighting with a sword on a horse needs years of training while shooting is more usefull and needs just month of training, so an army of few well trained swordsmen and horsemen was futile against an army of many conscripts with a fire weapon, in england where the army always used more on privates a costitution like the magna charta and later concessions adapted easily the old tradiction to the new situation, in france the king lost the head.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/30/2013 10:50:13 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		The Crown is part owners of the private federal reserve.

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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/30/2013 10:51:41 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/30/2013 5:11:53 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Real0ne.... Gotta love the way you wallow in your own bullshit.

Noticed how many of your fellow citizens are just chomping at the bit to back up your idiotic claims ? ..... Nope, me either.




I noticed you are incapable of making even so much is one on point rebuttal and I am laughing my ass off watching the show! Great job:



though




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RE: For those of us who dont know, what, exactly do the... - 7/30/2013 5:16:33 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Okay, what happened to tradition that the King, or in the situation where it is a Queen sitting on the throne, crown prince led troops into battle? Not trying to start a fight, but Harry saw action in Afghanistan, while William has to bend the rules to get risky duty at home. Should the choice belong to the Prince in question.



a ride around the block in a tank is not a tour of duty. great show though old chapped

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 72
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