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RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 7:25:15 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961




UH, stupid question, would you please remind me again, when did Ontario or any province of Canada join the Union?

The fact you use these boards gives you a right to state your opinion, however, it does not include you in any percentage of the US population.

Now, I have usually agreed with you in the past, or at the very least accepted the validity of your arguments. However, in this situation, I fail to see your frame of reference.

I cant even find information on how Canadians spend disposable income.

Hell from what I can see, you have a bit more of a problem than I do. Look here couldnt get a comparison for my city, so I picked the closest large metro area.

While your annual income is none of my business, looking at the numbers, you would be better off, with the exception of health insurance, living in the states, if you could put up with the political bullshit, the koch brothers trying to buy the government, and doing a damn good job at it, and the fact that American media does not have to broadcast the very strict truth.

Which brings us back to the point of your post.

True a large number of Americans live at or below the poverty line, however, with the exception of the larger metro areas, anything from 25k to 50k a year provides a decent living, if you are financially responsible. In point of fact, in the right circumstances, 15k can be comfortable, depending on your lifestyle.

But with the economic factors considered, people might be worried they face that possibility, but actually the situation whether they believe it or not, is improving.

The problem with the survey is personal perception. Based on income average, I am below the poverty line. Economically, is my situation improving, yes, but not at the pace I would prefer. Do I have to stretch a dollar and supplement my income by other means, sure.

However to counter the same article printed in each of your links, might I use this as compared to this.

My point is that the whole situation is based on perception.



I never claimed it had, I never claimed it did....
my own personal experience is just that personal experience, country doesnt matter, being financially in the shit is being financially in the shit, which is the point of the thread.
you yourself say you have been there, in your life.... Im betting most have....at least once, even without this"study"

If you dont find that a problem in the richest country in the world, then enjoy your american dream:)
Life sucks for too many people who have been screwed over by more than their own lack of "personal responsibility"
WIth regard to Canada vs US to live? Im not going anywhere.



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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 7:28:03 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		tj, I remember a thriving America in the 70s, 80s even the 90s were pretty good.

It is hard to literally watch your country decline within your lifetime.

America is going off the edge, many, many, many, people of all races are suffering.

Many parts of America, will be looking like a 3rd world country pretty soon.

It's beyond horrific to watch this unfurl.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 7:49:08 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Just lean back pick up the popcorn and watch the moviereel unravel. Don't worry baby its not real. Its just a film.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 7:53:45 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.


Um, no.

1. I have been jobless and many I know have as well. Hell, Lee Iacocca was jobless for months. So was Steve Jobs. And I was in poverty the whole time I attended college and lived cheap.

2. Bad statistics. The fact that 80% of US adults have had a tough time indicates a PRESENT condition at a single point in time. You cannot make the claim that things are deteriorating unless you provide a data point (preferably more than one) at other points in time.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 7/29/2013 7:54:00 PM >

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RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 7:55:16 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

tj, I remember a thriving America in the 70s, 80s even the 90s were pretty good.

It is hard to literally watch your country decline within your lifetime.

America is going off the edge, many, many, many, people of all races are suffering.

Many parts of America, will be looking like a 3rd world country pretty soon.

It's beyond horrific to watch this unfurl.

I know.. here in Houston there is so much (mostly black) poverty and its sad to see (I have never seen anything like this before in my life).. there is such a huge divide here.. and its not just here, its in many cities in the US.. more bankrupt cities coming too.. and to be honest, not sure what the Feds can do about it despite the "feel good" speeches, they (both parties) have sold their souls to Big Biz and voters are so screwed..

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RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:15:01 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Steven are you being obtuse on purpose?
Everyone in the US, does not mean "you" your situtaion, or the situation of your friends.
You REALLY have no idea, how bad things are in America?
Seriously, google is your friend.

CBS NEWS TODAY! 80% of US near poverty, facing unemployment

This is CBS news man!
What is it that you don't get?
You are deliberately being obtuse.

Number of US children living in poverty dramtically rising

Suburban poverty increasing

tj, that happens to be Houston.
I read today, that WHITES in poverty is at an all time high.
Especially in certain areas.



< Message edited by Marini -- 7/29/2013 8:16:57 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:23:06 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		This article is a must-read for all interested.

tj, the link below states poverty among Whites has dramatically increased.
Especially in certain key geographic areas.

From the article I have linked below, quoted from USA today:

"Nationwide, the count of America's poor remains stuck at a record number: 46.2 million, or 15% of the population, due in part to lingering high unemployment following the recession. While poverty rates for blacks and Hispanics are nearly three times higher, by absolute numbers the predominant face of the poor is white.

More than 19 million whites fall below the poverty line of $23,021 for a family of four, accounting for more than 41% of the nation's destitute, nearly double the number of poor blacks.

Sometimes termed "the invisible poor" by demographers, lower-income whites generally are dispersed in suburbs as well as small rural towns, where more than 60% of the poor are white. Concentrated in Appalachia in the East, they are numerous in the industrial Midwest and spread across America's heartland, from Missouri, Arkansas and Oklahoma up through the Great Plains."

This short article is an eye opener---
More Americans in poverty

Wake up people, in the suburbs, rurual America, places like the Appalachia, the heartland from Missouri, Arkansas and Oklahoma, through the Great Plains more that 60% of those in poverty are White.


Truth always sets you Free
Poverty is growing across all color lines in 2013, as we spiral downwards.
Peace


< Message edited by Marini -- 7/29/2013 8:28:11 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:29:19 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Again, all the economic indicators are on the rise, meaning regardless of what the common person may think, things are improving.

Lucy, the study indicated that at some point in their lives, 80% were in that situation, not meaning they are in it now.

Is it terrible, yes by all means, I never said it was good.

Do some groups have a better chance at economic improvement, I would again say yes, but according to all the "experts" everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed.

As far as the US being the richest nation on the planet, that I am not so sure about. Some countries rich in oil pay their citizens a stipend from oil revenues, meaning those people are making a hell of a lot more than the average American.

Is the top 1% a bunch of money grubbing assholes and bitches, hell yes, if they did not inherit the money, they got there by making the money, and the best way to make an honest living running your own business is to be a money grubbing asshole or bitch.

Short of the US becoming a worker's paradise or some Utopia where the wealth is equally divided among the population, OR Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future where money does not exist and people spend their time exploring the galaxy, researching some project, or whatever he thought was going to be the future economic system, I dont see the situation changing.

If, in the present all things were equal as far as bettering oneself socially, economically, and in whatever other way is considered important, there would still be some people who just dont give a flying fuck, they do just what it takes to get by. I am not saying that everyone at or below the poverty line are like that, but locally I see the same help wanted ads in the paper, on the News programs, on billboards, and in the local unemployment office go for months with no one filling them, and the unemployment rate and the rate of "underemployed" stay fairly constant or showing very slow improvement.

Hell there was a local Pizza Inn franchise that opened another location, and they started hiring for the place even before they broke ground and didnt get a full crew for all shifts for a month after it opened, and it was not due to lack of qualified applicants but the lack of applicants in general.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:31:28 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives

In other news, 100% of people who eat tomatoes will die.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:32:48 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

its in many cities in the US.. more bankrupt cities coming too.. and to be honest, not sure what the Feds can do about it despite the "feel good" speeches, they (both parties) have sold their souls to Big Biz and voters are so screwed..


It's a sad day, and the situation is not getting any better.
I agree, both parties have sold their souls to Big Biz.

It's just disheartening to be alive, and to watch and see this once great country spiraling downwards.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/29/2013 8:33:14 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:34:14 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		100 % of idiots will die, 100% of people reading this will die...
sure nuff

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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:35:15 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Im still trying to figure out how I can pay payroll taxes, insurance and gas on 125 a month.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:37:19 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

100 % of idiots will die, 100% of people reading this will die...
sure nuff


Lucy, I have learned selective reading is my friend, especially on here/the internet.
If everything was going over the brink, literally there would be people typing on here "it's not true/no big deal".
lol
Thanks for starting this thread.
There will always be "Deniers" among us.
Peace

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:46:03 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Let me sort this graph out a bit, just for myself.

We have more people per household on average making shit money but more than on eowrking adds up to more money.

This is not really a higher standard of living folks.

And watch, as Obamacare really kicks in, where there used to be 28 employees at 40 hours a week there will be 40 employees at 28 hours a week. Watch the unemployment rate drop then.

Starting a thread soon, because this line of thought is not for this one.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:49:07 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

100 % of idiots will die, 100% of people reading this will die...
sure nuff

Not in a million years not.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 8:56:25 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline 		Marini:
quote:

"Nationwide, the count of America's poor remains stuck at a record number: 46.2 million, or 15% of the population"

15% does not equal 80%. Tragic? Yes. End of the world? No.

quote:

This is CBS news man!
What is it that you don't get?

Are you saying that news channels are inherently reliable *cough*WMDs!*cough* and CBS in particular is a beacon of honesty that will never twist statistics to get a catchy headline on a slow news day?

Read it with me:
quote:

Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives

That means that at some point in their lives, be it childhood or old age, 4 out of 5 Americans will have money problems. Not all at once. Just at some point. Using the same exact logic and phrasing, I could say this:
Five out of 5 U.S. adults will be in pain and dead for at least parts of their lives.
Oh noes! The only logical conclusion (by CBS's logic) is that we're surrounded by zombies! Lock your doors and hide your daughters!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:05:05 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		lol,

Interpret the data any way you like.
We have all sorts of deniers around here.

Just keep laughing it off.
No big deal in "your world".
I love to agree, to disagree.

To each their own.
:)

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/29/2013 9:23:48 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:24:33 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
Just in case you thought otherwise, I wasn't trying to be insulting. But if you want to know the answer to this kind of competition, it's innovation and improvements in quality. If you can't make it cheaper, make it better.

yeah? hows that working so far? I guess thats how come Walmart is so large and is able to give lower and lower "every day prices".. cuz no one is shopping there?.. and their competitors follow suit.. Even if a corp does decide to manufacture in the US, they will use machines and the number of employees hired will be low, just ask those that work on the auto lines how many workers those damn efficient 24/7 machines have replaced.. Even in China the machines are replacing workers.. Even if you can make something "better", if you charge too much you wont have many customers and your "better" product will likely be reproduced by China for a lot less before the week is out.. Even your veggies and fruit is majorly imported now.. How do you make "better" blueberries when Chile can produce them & sell them in the US at a third of the cost? hmmm.. Imo, your manufacturing base is history and its not coming back..


The reason Wal-Mart can sell some items so cheaply isn't just because a Chinese company started making the same thing for less. In some cases Wal-Mart has used its volume purchasing power to coerce a company into moving its manufacturing to China or face having Wal-Mart boycott their products. Rubbermaid is one such example.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/etc/script.html

There's no doubt that the manufacturing base is never going to be the same as it was but the idea that installing machinery only eliminates jobs is pure bullshit. Right now I'm working on several projects for a Japanese company that's decided to move some of its production from China and South Korea to the U.S. because we're capable of producing a better product. It's probably going to create 20 or 30 jobs for the facility I'm working in. Some will be production jobs while others will be higher paying technical jobs. That's 20 or 30 jobs that didn't exist here to begin with.

As far as blueberries are concerned, I'm not in agriculture so I can't answer that. But if anyone has the ability to figure out how to produce a better berry, it's the U.S. farmer.



< Message edited by RottenJohnny -- 7/29/2013 9:30:06 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:25:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

15% does not equal 80%. Tragic? Yes. End of the world? No.


And yet you arent getting the numbers right.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:35:40 PM   
MasterCaneman


Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives

In other news, 100% of people who eat tomatoes will die.

While that may look snarky, it's actually a truism of how accurate statistics are. You can produce any answer you please from a stat, depending on how you either pose the conditions or present the findings.

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