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RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:43:01 PM

WebWanderer

Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

lol,

Interpret the data any way you like.
We have all sorts of deniers around here.

Just keep laughing it off.
No big deal in "your world".
I love to agree, to disagree.

Do you always laugh out loud when people point out the overabundance of flaws in what passes for your arguments, or do you occasionally cover your ears and go

to break up the monotony?

And as for "my world" remark, I was broke once upon a time, too. Didn't like it much. I'm not part of the 1%, if that's what you're implying - I just know how to read numbers. (Then again, that skill is so increasingly rare that it just might put me in the top 1% in terms of math skills, anyway.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman
While that may look snarky, it's actually a truism of how accurate statistics are. You can produce any answer you please from a stat, depending on how you either pose the conditions or present the findings.

You know what they say: there's lies, damn lies and statistics.

< Message edited by WebWanderer -- 7/29/2013 9:45:14 PM >

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Post #: 41

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:43:02 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

tj, that happens to be Houston.
I read today, that WHITES in poverty is at an all time high.
Especially in certain areas.

Yes, I know, I have read articles about whites in poverty also.. they make up part of the working poor that dont earn enough to pay Federal income tax.. but I still think its a lot harder for blacks cuz otherwise the unemployment rate for black people would not be double the "official" Fed unemployment rate.. so imo, it hits black people disproportionately higher and harder..

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Post #: 42

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:46:35 PM

Marini

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Joined: 2/14/2010
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WebWanderer,

I have realized the direction this country has been going in for almost 10 years.
I don't have anything to prove to you.

The facts are what they are.
Just as the economy and the increase in poverty among people of all races is increasing.
My opinions are hardly based on only these articles.

Enjoy your evening.
Peace

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to WebWanderer)

Post #: 43

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:46:54 PM

njlauren

Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
an increasingly globalized U.S. economy

"the loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs"

Ya know.. Canada has only a small manufacturing base.. 60% of goods sold in Canada are imported from the US.. in that respect, the US manufacturers ability to use economies of scale, etc to produce goods that it exports to Canada has cost Canadians jobs!!! (btw, do Americans give a shite about costing Canada jobs? no they do not) This is a fact and has gone on my entire life.. yet Canadians survive and thrive.. Why is the US not able to adapt as Canada has? I have yet to find an answer to that question..

Canada is also a small country and as such never had the population to go large scale into manufacturing, they never had the open immigration policies the US had..and when they do have immigration, they tend to favor well educated people working in service industries, they don't exactly open the door to masses of low educated, low skilled workers as the US has traditionally done.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 44

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:48:11 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

100 % of idiots will die, 100% of people reading this will die...
sure nuff

Lucy, I have learned selective reading is my friend, especially on here/the internet.
If everything was going over the brink, literally there would be people typing on here "it's not true/no big deal".
lol
Thanks for starting this thread.
There will always be "Deniers" among us.
Peace

Ya welcome hon. Theres a lot of miscomprehension in the deniers......putting words in mouths and strawmen.
Normal operating procedure........
Peace :)

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(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 45

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:49:35 PM

Marini

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quote:

Yes, I know, I have read articles about whites in poverty also.. they make up part of the working poor that dont earn enough to pay Federal income tax.. but I still think its a lot harder for blacks cuz otherwise the unemployment rate for black people would not be double the "official" Fed unemployment rate.. so imo, it hits black people disproportionately higher and harder..

I agree tj, and you know I have started hreads on how disproportionately higher the unemployment rates are for Black people.
There have been no shortage of threads discussing "Black people" lately, if you notice I rarely participate in those threads.

Fact is, poverty is rising among people of all races these days.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/29/2013 9:51:45 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 46

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:56:12 PM

WebWanderer

Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
The facts are what they are.

Which facts? I'm still trying to understand your interpretation of the factoid you used to title this thread - namely, "Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing Joblessness."

Do you admit that this is a misleading exaggeration that would only be true if time collapsed upon itself?

Because once again, by the same exact logic, one can say
"Survey Data Shows 99 Percent Of U.S. Adults are in terrible agony" because almost everyone will experience pain at some point in their lives, or
"Survey Data Shows 50 Percent Of U.S. Adults are pregnant" because most women will get pregnant at some point, or
"Survey Data Shows 99 Percent Of U.S. Adults are having an orgasm" because everyone who makes it to puberty will have one.

Do you understand what I am saying? Is any of this making sense to you? And why oh why do you worship CBS News?

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Post #: 47

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 9:56:47 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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Sad fact is.... the "official " unemployment number isnt the true number.

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Post #: 48

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:00:08 PM

DarkSteven

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Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Steven are you being obtuse on purpose?
Everyone in the US, does not mean "you" your situtaion, or the situation of your friends.
You REALLY have no idea, how bad things are in America?
Seriously, google is your friend.

CBS NEWS TODAY! 80% of US near poverty, facing unemployment

This is CBS news man!
What is it that you don't get?
You are deliberately being obtuse.

Number of US children living in poverty dramtically rising

Suburban poverty increasing

tj, that happens to be Houston.
I read today, that WHITES in poverty is at an all time high.
Especially in certain areas.

Not at all obtuse.

I'm a data guy. Show me some statistics, and you better be able to back them up.

Gut feel, I agree that things have gotten tougher over the past 30 years. But if you're going to give me numbers, make sure you can defend them. The article presents numbers that are hard to understand, and says that "since things are bad, they must have gotten worse from some point" without doing it properly.

I do NOT like bad analysis.

Edited to add: WebWanderer seems to understand me completely. Bad analysis, misleading headlines, etc.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 7/29/2013 10:02:46 PM >

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Post #: 49

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:04:15 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

The reason Wal-Mart can sell some items so cheaply isn't just because a Chinese company started making the same thing for less. In some cases Wal-Mart has used its volume purchasing power to coerce a company into moving its manufacturing to China or face having Wal-Mart boycott their products. Rubbermaid is one such example.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/etc/script.html

There's no doubt that the manufacturing base is never going to be the same as it was but the idea that installing machinery only eliminates jobs is pure bullshit. Right now I'm working on several projects for a Japanese company that's decided to move some of its production from China and South Korea to the U.S. because we're capable of producing a better product. It's probably going to create 20 or 30 jobs for the facility I'm working in. Some will be production jobs while others will be higher paying technical jobs. That's 20 or 30 jobs that didn't exist here to begin with.

As far as blueberries are concerned, I'm not in agriculture so I can't answer that. But if anyone has the ability to figure out how to produce a better berry, it's the U.S. farmer.

sure, I have read all the shite that Walmart does but cuz they do that, their competitors must also do that to get prices low enough to compete and stay in business..

And I never said that installing machines only eliminates jobs, what i said was that machines displace a lot of the workforce that was required pre-machine.. so 20 or 30 jobs is better than nothing but that is in reality a drop in the bucket and I just dont see a few companies trying to manufacture in the US as somehow saving the US from the downward spiral.. companies are moving from China to Mexico, you can have a plant set up there in 2 months and with their low labor costs there, a corp is way further ahead having all or part of it done there..

Yeah,.. you mean the likes of Monsanto could make a better berry???

NO THANKS!!! I know the best freakin' most amazing blueberry cuz I am from where a lot of non-American blueberries come from.. Last week I bought a big box of them (imported from Pitt Meadows, BC).. I am a blueberry connoisseur and I recognize those big fat juicy tasty berries..

For whatever reason, American blueberry growers dont grow that variety.. their loss, I guess..

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Post #: 50

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:12:39 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
an increasingly globalized U.S. economy

"the loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs"

Ya know.. Canada has only a small manufacturing base.. 60% of goods sold in Canada are imported from the US.. in that respect, the US manufacturers ability to use economies of scale, etc to produce goods that it exports to Canada has cost Canadians jobs!!! (btw, do Americans give a shite about costing Canada jobs? no they do not) This is a fact and has gone on my entire life.. yet Canadians survive and thrive.. Why is the US not able to adapt as Canada has? I have yet to find an answer to that question..

Canada is also a small country and as such never had the population to go large scale into manufacturing, they never had the open immigration policies the US had..and when they do have immigration, they tend to favor well educated people working in service industries, they don't exactly open the door to masses of low educated, low skilled workers as the US has traditionally done.

and now the US can not go into the scale of manufacturing that China does or that the US once had.. the US has a small population compared to China.. see my point?

The US has a limit on immigration for tech jobs (those visas are filled extremely quickly, I have heard within days).. so maybe the US is doing things backwards? Its your country, its your decision on what your immigration policy is..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Post #: 51

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:12:45 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

WebWander,

The "Facts" are all around us.
I am not going to engage or argue with you.

Business Insider Infograph-Rising poverty rates in USA

I said about 4 posts ago, I always can "agree to disagree'.

If you want to learn about rising poverty among all races in the USA,
there is a plethera of information available.

Have a great night.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/29/2013 10:17:57 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to WebWanderer)

Post #: 52

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:22:10 PM

WebWanderer

Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
The "Facts" are all around us.

Not in this thread, they're not.

quote:

I am not going to engage or argue with you.

Isn't that what you've been doing for the last hour?

quote:

Business Insider Infograph-Rising poverty rates in USA

This has nothing to do with the 80% figure, nor your misunderstanding of it.

quote:

If you want to learn about rising poverty among all races in the USA,
there is a plethera of information available.

First of all, it's spelled "plethora" - with an O. Secondly, the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim - in this case, you.

quote:

Have a great night.

I already am! As free entertainment goes, this is pretty hilarious.

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Post #: 53

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:24:22 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

Actually not for an hour, I have been cleaning.
I will certainly take a break from reading your posts,
I enjoy using the ignore feature.

Take care!
Bye Bye

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to WebWanderer)

Post #: 54

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:34:10 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

80 percent of U.S. adults face near-poverty, unemployment, survey finds

The CBS link.

Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.

.........

The gauge defines "economic insecurity" as a year or more of periodic joblessness, reliance on government aid such as food stamps or income below 150 percent of the poverty line. Measured across all races, the risk of economic insecurity rises to 79 percent.

Unemployment is 14.3. Try the U6 numbers, much more accurate.

Poor is listed at 15%

More than 19 million whites fall below the poverty line of $23,021 for a family of four, accounting for more than 41 percent of the nation's destitute, nearly double the number of poor blacks.

Total number on foodstamps.... 46,700,000
4% of the population is on welfare.
5,600,000 on unemployment.

Do I think the 80% is an exageration? No. I think at one point in their lives, 80% will know, or have known, hard economic times. Its a rather sobering statistic.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Post #: 55

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 10:34:26 PM

WebWanderer

Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline

And they say the art of public discourse is dead.

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Post #: 56

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 11:06:57 PM

Phydeaux

Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

We're struggling because the economic policies of Obama are a disaster.

As to why republicans want to repeal obamacare - its a huge jobs killer.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 57

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 11:07:23 PM

RottenJohnny

Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

And I never said that installing machines only eliminates jobs, what i said was that machines displace a lot of the workforce that was required pre-machine

And by your example, the difference between a "displaced worker" and an "eliminated job" is...?

quote:

...20 or 30 jobs is better than nothing but that is in reality a drop in the bucket and I just dont see a few companies trying to manufacture in the US as somehow saving the US from the downward spiral

...companies are moving from China to Mexico, you can have a plant set up there in 2 months and with their low labor costs there, a corp is way further ahead having all or part of it done there..

Not if people won't buy their product because it's crap. Remember the Yugo?

Cheap labor isn't the only factor in what makes manufacturing profitable. You need an educated workforce capable of understanding the other issues. Compared to China and Mexico, the American worker is better equipped and more experienced. So stick around. We might be down, but we're far from out.

quote:

Yeah,.. you mean the likes of Monsanto could make a better berry??? NO THANKS!!! I know the best freakin' most amazing blueberry cuz I am from where a lot of non-American blueberries come from.. Last week I bought a big box of them (imported from Pitt Meadows, BC).. I am a blueberry connoisseur and I recognize those big fat juicy tasty berries.. For whatever reason, American blueberry growers dont grow that variety.. their loss, I guess..

I have no idea if Monsanto has anything to do with blueberries. I just know that West Michigan farmers grow some of the best organic blueberries I've ever had. But I'd be happy to compare them with yours if you want to send me some.

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Post #: 58

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 11:18:16 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Sad fact is.... the "official " unemployment number isnt the true number.

A point with which I agree, the unemployment rate is the percentage of Americans actively looking for work.

Given the latest numbers, that rate is between 7 and 8%.

Under the current system used to figure such things, 15% of Americans are living at or below the poverty line.

There is a growing number of whites that are in that figure.

However, (and this is going to get me tarred and feathered and run out of the forum on a rail) there is, unfortunately a growing number of individuals who either just don't want to work or have given up looking for work.

Added to that the group of people at or below the poverty line that is too concerned with sex, drugs, booze, hip hop and video games to do nothing more than the minimum needed to qualify for assistance and still leave time for other shit.

Now while it is regrettable that there are growing number of people who have no desire to be in that percentage, I am going to ask one question.

Other than what the government is presently doing, which granted isn't a whole hell of a lot, what do you suggest we (the government) do about it?

Other than tax breaks to get companies to bring jobs back to the states, which considering the corporate tax code presently in use, many actually pay less in taxes than some working class slob making a decent living.

The only number I am denying is the implied 80% are presently living below the poverty line, are homeless, about to become homeless or about to lose their jobs.

Economically the situation isn't great, but they are improving.

Hell in 2011 local unemployment rate was a record high of 7.2%, now it is at 4.8%. That is good news right? Currently the national unemployment rate is 7.6%, down from 9.9% during Obama's first term. Again, that is good news right?

I fail to see how Obama is responsible for a record number of white Americans going below the poverty line, unless you are suggesting the government had some secret program to get white people fired or not hired.

Yes I am being snarky, but given what I have learned about the economy either in school or following the economic indicators, things are getting better.

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Post #: 59

RE: Survey Data Shows 80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Facing ... - 7/29/2013 11:30:19 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Given the latest numbers, that rate is between 7 and 8%.

I disagree.

U1 : Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
U2 : Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
U3 : Official unemployment rate per ILO definition.
U4 : U3 + "discouraged workers", or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.
U5 : U4 + other "marginally attached workers", or "loosely attached workers", or those who "would like" and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
U6 : U5 + Part time workers who want to work full time, but cannot due to economic reasons.

U6 gives a far better indication of the work force as a whole.

quote:

Other than what the government is presently doing, which granted isn't a whole hell of a lot, what do you suggest we (the government) do about it?

The only thing the government can do is hire.

quote:

Hell in 2011 local unemployment rate was a record high of 7.2%, now it is at 4.8%. That is good news right? Currently the national unemployment rate is 7.6%, down from 9.9% during Obama's first term. Again, that is good news right?

Which, by the numbers above, do not reflect those who have simply given up looking.

Im not blaming Obama.... I am blaming the government as a whole.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 60

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