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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/30/2013 6:50:52 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Ahhh yes, that StormFront meme again... call minorities racist at every chance.

And that has what to do with the thread topic?

I think you will find you introduced race into the thread, no one else.

It was first mentioned in post !4, perhaps you missed it.

Perhaps I missed it because it isnt fucking there........ Dont let that stop you though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

nah
nah its not, uppity is a class joke with me not racism, but
your racism is peeking

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 7/30/2013 6:52:52 PM >

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/30/2013 7:02:09 PM

Lucylastic

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he was accusing ME of being racist, by suggesting I meant the word UPPITY when I meant arrogant and ignorant
he has constantly accused me of being racist and using stormfront memes...I didnt mean the word uppity, or use it... I know damn well that that he uses it as a ridiculous buffer.
YEs I used the word racism
I take it you dont read his bullshit...
smart:)

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/30/2013 7:02:22 PM

Powergamz1

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+1 Bigotry always finds a new home and so far, the internet is a perfect fit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Why do you watch it if you hate it so much?

KNOW YOUR ENEMY!!! - the best reason to watch Fox and the Right-Wing Media cartel, since they are the enemy of the United States and all that it stands for.

Well maybe that is the problem right there. I don't consider them the enemy. I consider some of them to be idiots but that's about it. One of the biggest enemies of the US right now are the political bigots who spread hate with every thought. They are trying to divide the country and that never ends well.

< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 7/30/2013 7:06:25 PM >

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/30/2013 7:04:32 PM

Powergamz1

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And we are still waiting for you to actually address the thread topic, and explain how my comments about the issue are 'bullshit'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

he was accusing ME of being racist, by suggesting I meant the word UPPITY when I meant arrogant and ignorant
he has constantly accused me of being racist and using stormfront memes...I didnt mean the word uppity, or use it... I know damn well that that he uses it as a ridiculous buffer.
YEs I used the word racism
I take it you dont read his bullshit...
smart:)

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/30/2013 7:18:34 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

KNOW YOUR ENEMY!!! - the best reason to watch Fox and the Right-Wing Media cartel, since they are the enemy of the United States and all that it stands for.

Well maybe that is the problem right there. I don't consider them the enemy. I consider some of them to be idiots but that's about it. One of the biggest enemies of the US right now are the political bigots who spread hate with every thought. They are trying to divide the country and that never ends well.

Given our politicized media, some stories seem only to get exposure by one side. To even begin to get a balanced view, or at least understand their different perspectives, you really have to read/watch both sides, and for international news add some good foreign sources to the mix.

K.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 3:34:07 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

he was accusing ME of being racist, by suggesting I meant the word UPPITY when I meant arrogant and ignorant
he has constantly accused me of being racist and using stormfront memes...I didnt mean the word uppity, or use it... I know damn well that that he uses it as a ridiculous buffer.
YEs I used the word racism
I take it you dont read his bullshit...
smart:)

Lucy, I was rather hoping boi could work it out for herself.

Uppity has a completely different meaning in the UK anyhow but I got the insinuation that was clearly thrown at you.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 5:12:37 AM

chatterbox24

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TO answer...............Of course!

Someone well read in many different religious beliefs, who is unbiased in his writing, is brilliant and open. TO look thru someones elses interpretation can be very enlightening and much can be learned.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 7:51:19 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

he was accusing ME of being racist, by suggesting I meant the word UPPITY when I meant arrogant and ignorant
he has constantly accused me of being racist and using stormfront memes...I didnt mean the word uppity, or use it... I know damn well that that he uses it as a ridiculous buffer.
YEs I used the word racism
I take it you dont read his bullshit...
smart:)

I don't equate the word uppity with racism. But maybe that is a regional thing. I do know he has accused you of racism and if I recall correctly I recently called him on it. It seems to be used around here alot by quite a lot of posters.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 7:54:29 PM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

KNOW YOUR ENEMY!!! - the best reason to watch Fox and the Right-Wing Media cartel, since they are the enemy of the United States and all that it stands for.

Well maybe that is the problem right there. I don't consider them the enemy. I consider some of them to be idiots but that's about it. One of the biggest enemies of the US right now are the political bigots who spread hate with every thought. They are trying to divide the country and that never ends well.

Given our politicized media, some stories seem only to get exposure by one side. To even begin to get a balanced view, or at least understand their different perspectives, you really have to read/watch both sides, and for international news add some good foreign sources to the mix.

K.

I get all my news on CM, then I wait for you and a few others to respond to make sure I am getting it right.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 8:07:57 PM

Marini

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quote:

I get all my news on CM, then I wait for you and a few others to respond to make sure I am getting it right.

lol

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/31/2013 8:55:02 PM >

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 10:04:11 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Any scholar who has actually conducted thorough research into a subject, and not just a survey of the main points, can write on any subject, in my opinion.

The problem is that it is human nature to have a bias for or against topics.

All human beings have biases, any good historian will admit it (for example, Barbara Tuchman always was forthright in saying she didn't like the Germans or their culture much; David McCullough originally when he wrote his bio of John Adams wanted to do it on Adams and Jefferson, but so disliked Jefferson he dropped it). However, a good scholar or historian tries to minimize their person bias and stick to facts...

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 10:09:06 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR-

He may not be as expert as he claims.

Aslan does have four degrees, as Joe Carter has noted: a 1995 B.A. in religion from Santa Clara University, where he was Phi Beta Kappa and wrote his senior thesis on “The Messianic Secret in the Gospel of Mark”; a 1999 Master of Theological Studies from Harvard; a 2002 Master of Fine Arts in Fiction from the University of Iowa; and a 2009 Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California, Santa Barbara.

None of these degrees is in history, so Aslan’s repeated claims that he has “a Ph.D. in the history of religions” and that he is “a historian” are false. Nor is “professor of religions” what he does “for a living.” He is an associate professor in the Creative Writing program at the University of California, Riverside, where his terminal MFA in fiction from Iowa is his relevant academic credential. It appears he has taught some courses on Islam in the past, and he may do so now, moonlighting from his creative writing duties at Riverside. Aslan has been a busy popular writer, and he is certainly a tireless self-promoter, but he is nowhere known in the academic world as a scholar of the history of religion. And a scholarly historian of early Christianity? Nope.

What about that Ph.D.? As already noted, it was in sociology. I have his dissertation in front of me. It is a 140-page work titled “Global Jihadism as a Transnational Social Movement: A Theoretical Framework.” If Aslan’s Ph.D. is the basis of a claim to scholarly credentials, he could plausibly claim to be an expert on social movements in twentieth-century Islam. He cannot plausibly claim, as he did to Lauren Green, that he is a “historian,” or is a “professor of religions” “for a living.”

Compared to the twat on Fox News who made such a stink about him, he is an expert. He as a master's in theological studies from Harvard, which isn't exactly the university of Phoenix, so it is a bit stupid to say "he doesn't have a PHd", that is like the morons who knock evolution, claiming it has holes. A lot of historians and writers don't have Phd's, doesn't make there work any more powerful. And if you consider that his critics are people who graduated from Bob Jones University and the Philadelphia college of the bible, well....

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 10:16:00 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

While Ms. Green rather obviously took offense at Aslan's book, approached the interview with a chip on her shoulder, and behaved in a rude and indefensible way, there is something to be said for casting a jaundiced eye upon it.

Aslan is best known for his earlier work, "No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam," in which he glorifies the Medina verses and dismisses Islam's excesses by attributing them to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to "Western Imperialism."

Imagine, if you will, an author who writes a Christian apologetic that makes its centerpeice the Sermon on the Mount and attributes the Spanish Inquisition to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to the Muslim conquest of Spain. If that same author, who of course only just "happens" to be Christian, next writes a book portraying the prophet Mohammed as a pedophiliac liar who suffered hallucinations, would you need a map? It would be slammed as a hatchet job, and "Zealot" is no different.

Christ was about as far from being a zealot as you can possibly get, and manifestly not imbued with "a fervent nationalism that made resistance to the Roman occupation a sacred duty incumbent on all Jews."

Aslan holds no doctorates in either history or religion. He teaches Creative Writing, and "Zealot" is right up his alley. Fortunately, neither the Roman Pontiff nor the Archbishop of Canterbury are likely to issue a "fatwa" calling for his death, and we will not be troubled by hordes of frothing Christians raging at the insult to their Christ.

K.

Um, Kirata, I guess you haven't read many apologetics written by Catholic Scholars, who do just what you are talking about, seriously, that the inquisition wasn't as bad as you think it was, that millions weren't killed in the burning times, that the church was constantly fighting against the muslim invasion of Europe, all kinds of excuses.

As far as who Jesus was, no one really knows, and one thing historians are certain of is that the Jesus in the bible has to a certain extent been fictionalized, made beatific and pure (since being human would take away from the God thing). Among other things, the Romans would not have executed Christ because of what some Jewish priest said, the Romans didn't respect Judaism enough to do that, they executed Christ because he was a political threat.....there is evidence that Christ was a lot more then is let on by the NT, so he may not be far off.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 10:26:08 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Probably not. But then, who is?

Fair enough, but your observation only highlights the disingenuousness inherent in claiming to be an "expert" who "just happens" to be Muslim and portraying Zealot as an exemplar of neutral scholarship.

K.

Have you actually read the book? Have you checked his citings? have you seen what other scholars have said about the book? Or are you going to believe what a brain dead bimbo on Fox News? I haven't read the book, but I have seen comments from some pretty heavy hitting theologians and historians of religion, and they seem to like the book, even if they don't agree with all his conclusions.

BTW, your own viewpoint shows bias, the claim the Jesus was anything but a zealot is debatable, writers on religion including Spong, Erhman, Karen Armstrong and others have pointed out that the NT was changed, to expunge much of Christ's rough edges, and that he was baptized by John the Baptist who was a zealout and Christ was influenced by him.....and his act in the temple of overturning the money lenders table was not a simple act of defiance. I haven't read the book itself, it is on my list, but one of the points it makes is quite valid, trying to understand Christ without looking at the times is a dangerous thing, it is much like the gentiles reading the early books of the bible or the OT without understanding Judaism. Anyone growing up in those times, including a Christ who was at least part human, would be caught up in the currents of the time, and most certainly, those following him and writing about him were.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 10:28:56 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

Having not been there, I personally can't comment on the sanity (or lack thereof) of the Jesus person.

The 'firebrand Christ' bio is hardly new or exclusive to Muslim authors. And speculative history sells.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

~ FR ~

While Ms. Green rather obviously took offense at Aslan's book, approached the interview with a chip on her shoulder, and behaved in a rude and indefensible way, there is something to be said for casting a jaundiced eye upon it.

Aslan is best known for his earlier work, "No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam," in which he glorifies the Medina verses and dismisses Islam's excesses by attributing them to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to "Western Imperialism."

Imagine, if you will, an author who writes a Christian apologetic that makes its centerpeice the Sermon on the Mount and attributes the Spanish Inquisition to "misinterpretation" and a reaction to the Muslim conquest of Spain. If that same author, who of course only just "happens" to be Christian, next writes a book portraying the prophet Mohammed as a pedophiliac liar who suffered hallucinations, would you need a map? It would be slammed as a hatchet job, and "Zealot" is no different.

Christ was about as far from being a zealot as you can possibly get, and manifestly not imbued with "a fervent nationalism that made resistance to the Roman occupation a sacred duty incumbent on all Jews."

Aslan holds no doctorates in either history or religion. He teaches Creative Writing, and "Zealot" is right up his alley. Fortunately, neither the Roman Pontiff nor the Archbishop of Canterbury are likely to issue a "fatwa" calling for his death, and we will not be troubled by hordes of frothing Christians raging at the insult to their Christ.

K.

No, it isn't, and a lot of theologians and historians believe that Christ was a lot more than the NT says...scholars know that the NT was edited to purge thngs about Christ out of it that didn't fit their beatific ideal of him, and a Jew in the first century would be very much caught up in the turbulence. Plus if as the NT seems to indicate, that Christ believed he was the messiah, the Jewish messiah was a warrior king, not a passivist beatific figure people paint Christ as.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 7/31/2013 11:02:15 PM

MrBukani

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I contest he was a warriorking.
First he never was king of Israel, Herod was.
Second a warrior of what war?
I say he was the philosophers apprentice who became a master at it.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/1/2013 12:31:06 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

While Ms. Green rather obviously took offense at Aslan's book, approached the interview with a chip on her shoulder, and behaved in a rude and indefensible way, there is something to be said for casting a jaundiced eye upon it.

The time to cast a "jaundiced eye" on Aslan's text is while considering its content after reading it. Not before reading it.

As I skimmed the thread, I didn't notice any one here claiming to have read the text in question. Nonetheless there seems to be an abundance of 'jaundiced eyes'. Much as there are plenty of eyes turning yellow and parading their intolerance at the mere mention of Islam in any context these days.

I have little time for any of the Abrahamic religions. To me they all seem pretty much equally bloodthirsty. But the suggestion that membership of any one religion disqualifies one from writing about another is nonsense and like any other form of censorship, quite dangerous nonsense.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/1/2013 1:33:26 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

No, it isn't, and a lot of theologians and historians believe that Christ was a lot more than the NT says...scholars know that the NT was edited to purge thngs about Christ out of it that didn't fit their beatific ideal of him, and a Jew in the first century would be very much caught up in the turbulence. Plus if as the NT seems to indicate, that Christ believed he was the messiah, the Jewish messiah was a warrior king, not a passivist beatific figure people paint Christ as.

There is no evidence that Jesus ever either thought of himself or represented himself as a Warrior King, and the only "explanation" for this exceedingly conspicuous lack is the bald claim that it must have been removed. That's awfully thin. While it is true that the Jews believed their Messiah would be a military leader, over and over again Jesus' response to what they believed was "but I say unto you..." something different. So there is simply no traction for a claim that the texts were "purged" of his activities as a militant revolutionary in the struggle against Rome.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/1/2013 2:27:43 AM >

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/1/2013 1:46:25 AM

Phoenixpower

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Sure, anyone can write about any religion.

dito....

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/1/2013 3:39:29 AM

chatterbox24

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Matthew 10:34

Think not that I have came to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

A bit of an oxymoron, for a peace loving God? I challenge everyone to read the book of Matthew to understand what is meant by that verse. A messenger comes in the name of peace, love, truth, understanding, salvation, all the beauty of life, but speaks of a sword, and not coming to send peace?

Why do you think that is?

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 8/1/2013 4:17:11 AM >

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