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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 6:13:43 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Given his perspective that Christ was a militant political leader lacking in divinity, he leaves no basis for Christianity to exist.

Except that, as I mentioned above, Christianity actually did exist for several centuries before settling the question of Jesus' divinity.

quote:

When I was in high school four cheerleaders in a vw beetle were run over by a truck load of pigs. The truck drivers lack of malice didn't make the survivor feel any better. Malicious or not it still strikes at the heart of Christianity.

This may well be the most bizarre analogy I've ever heard. What point were you trying to convey?

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 12:19:36 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Given his perspective that Christ was a militant political leader lacking in divinity, he leaves no basis for Christianity to exist.

Except that, as I mentioned above, Christianity actually did exist for several centuries before settling the question of Jesus' divinity.

quote:

When I was in high school four cheerleaders in a vw beetle were run over by a truck load of pigs. The truck drivers lack of malice didn't make the survivor feel any better. Malicious or not it still strikes at the heart of Christianity.

This may well be the most bizarre analogy I've ever heard. What point were you trying to convey?

Before the official word was settled.
Regardless of intent it is still a condemnation of the core of Christianity
Even the Koran recognize Christ as a divinely inspired prophet, not just another militant rabble rouser.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/3/2013 12:34:29 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 3:05:14 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Regardless of intent it is still a condemnation of the core of Christianity

Given all that Christianity has weathered--Nero, the Great Schism, the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation, Stalin, Mao--I'm confident it will survive Reza Aslan.

quote:

Even the Koran recognize Christ as a divinely inspired prophet, not just another militant rabble rouser.

Two thoughts:

(a) Do we actually know that Aslan sees Jesus as "just another militant rabble rouser"?

(b) The Koran certainly strikes at "the core of Christianity."

http://www.islamawareness.net/Christianity/what_does_quran.html

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 3:07:34 PM   
Shoedaddy


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Status: offline 		Can a Republican write about Democrats?

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 3:19:59 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Can a Republican write about Democrats?

Of course.

Herbert Hoover, The Ordeal of Woodrow Wilson

Conrad Black*, Franklin Delano Roosevelt: Champion of Freedom

* Black, an Anglo-Canadian, is a Conservative rather than a Republican, but I think he still demonstrates that authors can venture beyond the boundaries others might impose on them.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 4:48:09 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Regardless of intent it is still a condemnation of the core of Christianity

Given all that Christianity has weathered--Nero, the Great Schism, the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation, Stalin, Mao--I'm confident it will survive Reza Aslan.

quote:

Even the Koran recognize Christ as a divinely inspired prophet, not just another militant rabble rouser.

Two thoughts:

(a) Do we actually know that Aslan sees Jesus as "just another militant rabble rouser"?

(b) The Koran certainly strikes at "the core of Christianity."

http://www.islamawareness.net/Christianity/what_does_quran.html

Yes Christianity will survive
He was a non divine Zealot revolutionary but how dare I characterize that as a rabble rouser
Duh it was founding a new religion, it struck at the heart of every religion an yet it painted a more positive picture of Christ than this does.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/3/2013 4:49:23 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 4:50:11 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

He was a non divine Zealot revolutionary but how dare I characterize that as a rabble rouser

You can characterize however you like.

I'm just asking whether your characterization is rooted in actual knowledge of Aslan's book.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 4:55:19 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

He was a non divine Zealot revolutionary but how dare I characterize that as a rabble rouser

You can characterize however you like.

I'm just asking whether your characterization is rooted in actual knowledge of Aslan's book.

And I am asking if you would be as protective of a book by a Christian who ascribed the spread of Islam to the need find people outside the religion to raid?

Does he or does he not deny any divinity in Christ?
Does he or does he not contend that Christ was a militant (Zealot) revolutionary?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/3/2013 4:58:16 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 5:00:53 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

And I am asking if you would be as protective of a book by a Christian who ascribed the spread of Islam to the need find people outside the religion to raid?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "protective," but yes I'd support an author's right to cast a critical eye at Islam. People outside an institution/tradition often have a clarity not available to those inside. One of the best-known observers of America, after all, was a Frenchman.

Okay, I've answered your question. Your turn to answer mine: What's the factual basis for your statements about Aslan's book?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 5:22:08 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And I am asking if you would be as protective of a book by a Christian who ascribed the spread of Islam to the need find people outside the religion to raid?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "protective," but yes I'd support an author's right to cast a critical eye at Islam. People outside an institution/tradition often have a clarity not available to those inside. One of the best-known observers of America, after all, was a Frenchman.

Okay, I've answered your question. Your turn to answer mine: What's the factual basis for your statements about Aslan's book?

I asked three questions you only answered one.
The least important one.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 5:26:26 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		LOL!

I answered the one question you'd posed when I read the post. It's not my fault you went back and added more.

Meantime, you continue to dodge a question I've asked several times now.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 5:36:01 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

LOL!

I answered the one question you'd posed when I read the post. It's not my fault you went back and added more.

Meantime, you continue to dodge a question I've asked several times now.

Did he make those claims? If he did not why are those claims being justified?
They are the basis for my problem with his content.
I have no problem, as I have said repeatedly, with his right to publish anything he wants to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 5:37:49 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

LOL!

I answered the one question you'd posed when I read the post. It's not my fault you went back and added more.

Meantime, you continue to dodge a question I've asked several times now.

It should be clear to anyone that those other two questions are the basis of my problems with what he wrote, but I know it sounds better to portray me as evasive.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 5:47:22 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

It should be clear to anyone that those other two questions are the basis of my problems with what he wrote,

If they're such crucial questions, why did you only add them as an afterthought?

quote:

but I know it sounds better to portray me as evasive.

You are being evasive.

Earlier in the thread, you made flat-out statements about Aslan's book. When asked the source of your information, you started this just-asking-questions sleight of hand. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's impossible to believe that you're bringing any actual knowledge of Aslan's work to the discussion.

If you want to condemn a book you give no evidence of having ever opened, that's your right. And it's my right to decide whether your comments are worth taking seriously.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 6:49:34 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It should be clear to anyone that those other two questions are the basis of my problems with what he wrote,

If they're such crucial questions, why did you only add them as an afterthought?

quote:

but I know it sounds better to portray me as evasive.

You are being evasive.

Earlier in the thread, you made flat-out statements about Aslan's book. When asked the source of your information, you started this just-asking-questions sleight of hand. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's impossible to believe that you're bringing any actual knowledge of Aslan's work to the discussion.

If you want to condemn a book you give no evidence of having ever opened, that's your right. And it's my right to decide whether your comments are worth taking seriously.

I originally intended them as a different post.
If he doesn't make those claims just say so.
Now you are being evasive.
If he doesn't make them I don't have a problem with his content, but I do have a problem with the number of people defending his making of claims he didn't make.
If he did make them I have a problem with the claims, not with his right to make them.
If someone makes a movie that makes Islamic history look bad we blame him for terror attacks.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 6:54:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		If my impression of his position is wrong why has nobody said so but rather tried to convince me of the intellectual purity of his position and his lack of malice.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 7:18:59 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		If you want to judge a 336-page scholarly work by "impressions" from CM posts, have at it.

But I think we've passed the point where this exchange has any value.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/3/2013 7:42:00 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

If you want to judge a 336-page scholarly work by "impressions" from CM posts, have at it.

But I think we've passed the point where this exchange has any value.

"Does this mean we're not friends any more, I don't think I could bear it if you weren't my friend"

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Can a Muslim Scholar Write About Christianity? - 8/4/2013 7:01:11 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Does this mean we're not friends any more

Not at all.

I just think we're on different wavelengths on this one.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 139
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