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RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/3/2013 7:47:03 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

The last few years the Earth temp turns out to Not be even close to flat. .


Great. Find me one scientific set of data - that shows that. The average temperature over the earth for the last few years isn't flat.

Show the data.

Because the facts are that more or less we are 1.2 degrees above the post 60s average - and that, rather than having the predicted 7 degree temperature rise we seem to have stuck at 1.2 degrees.

Look, I'm all in favor of doing what we can to species - we are killing lots of species through habitat destruction etc. But attacking the wrong cause needlessly is just stupid.

Extra credit - if you present how ethanol is accelerating "global warming".

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 8/3/2013 7:52:18 AM >

(in reply to epiphiny43)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/3/2013 8:13:26 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

The last few years the Earth temp turns out to Not be even close to flat. .


Great. Find me one scientific set of data - that shows that. The average temperature over the earth for the last few years isn't flat.

Show the data.

Because the facts are that more or less we are 1.2 degrees above the post 60s average - and that, rather than having the predicted 7 degree temperature rise we seem to have stuck at 1.2 degrees.

Look, I'm all in favor of doing what we can to species - we are killing lots of species through habitat destruction etc. But attacking the wrong cause needlessly is just stupid.

Extra credit - if you present how ethanol is accelerating "global warming".

I already showed you your claim was wrong. Don't you read posts?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/3/2013 9:06:07 AM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		FR

North Pole Sees Unprecedented July Cold – Arctic Sees Shortest Summer On Record — ‘Normally the high Arctic has about 90 days above freezing. This year there was less than half that’



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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/3/2013 9:54:44 PM   
MrBukani


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MY car
It drinks petrol like a motherfucker but who cares?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/3/2013 10:50:03 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Go green. I need the money,



Algore

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< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 8/3/2013 10:53:55 PM >

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RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 2:53:13 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani



MY car
It drinks petrol like a motherfucker but who cares?


Wait a minute...didn't this whole thing start because you thought German cars were better than American cars? And now you're telling us that you're driving a Charger R/T? It's a sweet example of classic iron but somebody around here is a lying little bastard...lol.

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(in reply to MrBukani)
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RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 10:32:29 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I guess nobody ever heard of the Milankovitch cycle eh ?

Perhaps it's effect is negligible, but I doubt it. Even if the warming is caused MORE by CO2 emissions there should be an offset considered for the sake of accuracy. The total ignorance of the Milankovitch cycle is suggestive that the researchers have a vested interest in a certain conclusion being drawn.

Of late, because of all the bad science out there, I am starting to believe that completely unbiased research is just about inpossible when it comes to things like this. Certain things like chemical reactions and such can be repeated. The fact is that this is impossible when it comes to global climate.

In other words, IF this research was complete, there WOULD CERTAINLY be a mention of the Milankovitch cycle if for no other reason than to say that it "is only responsible for this much" of the effect and that the remainder of the CHANGE MUST be attributable to CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

Further, along with studies tallying the total CO2 emissions for wihich Man is responsible, there needs to be a like study on just how much of this CO2 was emitted by natural causes over which we have no control.

Let me clue you in just a bit about how this Milankpovitch cycle may have a significant effect : We are now in the part of the cycle during which the Earth is closest to the sun in the winter months. Now look at a globe and you will see that the pattern of land mass in the southern hemisphere is different. (Antarctica may balance out the actual amount of land mass, but it is at the pole so as such the sun has a much smaller effect on it) This means that more sunlight is hitting water down there. This will cause the ocean itself to emit more CO2. Water also handles the heat from the sun differently than land because of its much greater thermal mass and conductivity.

These FACTS prove that the research is flawed, or slewed. It does not prove the data are dead wrong of course, but it does PROVE UNEQUIVOCABLY that that data are not totally accurate.

If we are to make drastic economic and societal changes based on this, it better be accurate. Until all factors are properly considered and weighted, this is just another end of the world scare as far as I am concerned.

T^T

(edited because I can't fucking type)

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 8/4/2013 10:36:18 AM >

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 2:26:38 PM   
DollMegan


Posts: 5
Joined: 2/27/2013
Status: offline 		If you think the economy is bad now, just try a carbon tax, reductions on CO2 or anything else.

77% of all jobs created this year have been part time.

4 out of 5 Americans live in poverty.

Our middle class now ranks 27th in the world.

Real inflation is 8%.

The debt is 17 trillion "officially", actual is 122 trillion counting liabilities.

21 million Americans now live with their parents.

and on and on.

AND the big one is we could all stop driving today and it would do NOTHING.

You want to help "global warming" and the using up of resources this is the ONLY thing that will work:

a. STOP HAVING KIDS.

Driving your hybrid to walmart to load up on made in china goods that come over on cargo ships that 15 of which pollute as much as ALL the cars in the world in one year WITH a baby seat in the back is ridiculous. You aren't helping anything. That kid skewed the whole equation.

Global warming is a power grab, it's to control you, it is about a one world government and it is about making markets where there are none to control resources - you have to pay to play. Also if you price resources high enough only those with money can play and thus you reduce the population.

If you can't see that than God help you. It is plan as day.

p.s. - Our warming is caused by the sun. That big ball heats up and guess what? It affects us! DUH!!!

p.s.s. - If you can't see Obama has been the biggest failure EVER than even God can't help you. Go worship your false god Barry.

< Message edited by DollMegan -- 8/4/2013 2:29:08 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 2:56:53 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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quote:

If you think the economy is bad now, just try.....


I agree. This is all a moot point becasue we can spend, oh wait, the government can spend our last dime and not do shit about it. We DO NOT have the technology. All it will do is to send the rest of the exportable jobs to China, which will allow as much if not MORE CO2 emissions than the US ever would.

You know, perhaps you will understand this, most people do not. The jobs did not move to china becasue the labor is so cheap. They did not move there because there are no regulations, environmental or otherwise. China has a couple of things the US does not.

The people are relatively educated and have a work ethinc.

When you go to open a factory in the US you cannot move three inches without someone with their hand out for a bribe, or a fee.

In the US the power goes out, the roads suck, in fact the whole infrastructure sucks. Go to China and they will put in roads, even a power substation and a few other things for you.

Contrary to popular belief they do have the equivalent of an EPA and an OSHA. Their people do not live in huts, they have houses and cars and all kinds of cool shit.

If it was just low wages then, why is Germany doing so well ? Their people enjoy a significantly better quality of life and prosperity than we have had in the US in maybe five decades. For a long time almost every fuel injector in every car on the road was made in Germany or a German plant. Why ?

Quality and precision, as well as efficiency. You see, in the US the wrong people have the power. Corporate raiders run the companies and government, and thieves run the banks.

We are headed toward the exact same conditions here that enabled Hitler to take power in Germany. Just wait. Endless theft by the banks (that's right, it was NOT WW1 reparations like we were supposoed to think), government oppression of the middle and lower classes while coddling the biggest thieves.

But after the upheaval we will be the better for it. It's just going to be one hell of a ride.

Global warming is just another tool to give more to the rich at our expense. If it wasn't good for the rich, nobody would have ever heard of it. That's not to say it isn't happening, it's just they don't give a shit about it really and will just use it as an angle to make more money. they've already started in fact......

T^T

(in reply to DollMegan)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 3:43:18 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DollMegan
Global warming is a power grab, it's to control you, it is about a one world government and it is about making markets where there are none to control resources - you have to pay to play. Also if you price resources high enough only those with money can play and thus you reduce the population.

Nope. It is about keeping our civilization and quite possibly our species around for a while longer. Paranoid fantasies do no one any good.

quote:

p.s. - Our warming is caused by the sun. That big ball heats up and guess what? It affects us! DUH!!!

But that big ball hasn't heated up in any significant way.

(in reply to DollMegan)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 5:58:55 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"The planet has been closest to the sun in the Northern hemisphere winter for about 5000 years."

Plenty of time for that cumulative effect lol. When was the last ice age again ?

T^T

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 6:42:02 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"The planet has been closest to the sun in the Northern hemisphere winter for about 5000 years."

Plenty of time for that cumulative effect lol. When was the last ice age again ?

T^T

the last glaciation ended about 10,500 years ago. which is roughly the other extreme of this particular cycle. So there is no causative relationship and like I said this cycle is not changing in a way that would account for the rapid warming of the last 5o years.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 8:46:26 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Incidents solar radiation varying:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090719195200.htm

Add this to the link I posted previously about CERN's research that showed all of global warming could be attributed to changes in solar radiation.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 9:57:25 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Paranoid fantasies do no one any good.

Especially paranoid fantasies like the CO2 Fried Earth Theory...

We combine the historical aerial images with both early and modern satellite imagery to extract frontal variations of marine- and land-terminating outlet glaciers, as well as local glaciers and ice caps, over the past 80 years. The images reveal a regional response to external forcing regardless of glacier type, terminal environment and size. Furthermore, the recent retreat was matched in its vigour during a period of warming in the 1930s with comparable increases in air temperature. We show that many land-terminating glaciers underwent a more rapid retreat in the 1930s than in the 2000s ~Nature

1930s photos show Greenland glaciers retreating faster than today

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 10:11:45 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Paranoid fantasies do no one any good.

Especially paranoid fantasies like the CO2 Fried Earth Theory...

We combine the historical aerial images with both early and modern satellite imagery to extract frontal variations of marine- and land-terminating outlet glaciers, as well as local glaciers and ice caps, over the past 80 years. The images reveal a regional response to external forcing regardless of glacier type, terminal environment and size. Furthermore, the recent retreat was matched in its vigour during a period of warming in the 1930s with comparable increases in air temperature. We show that many land-terminating glaciers underwent a more rapid retreat in the 1930s than in the 2000s ~Nature

1930s photos show Greenland glaciers retreating faster than today

K.

Such careful editing
The nature abstract finishes with this
quote:

whereas marine-terminating glaciers retreated more rapidly during the recent warming.

The reason warming slowed after the 30's was the rapid industrialization and all those bombs throwing particulates into the air. Pollution absorbed and reflected a significant amount of solar radiation, known as solar dimming. When pollution was reduced the warming restarted.

So unless you really want to live in air as bad as it was in the early 70's maybe we should find another solution.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 10:33:02 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The reason warming slowed after the 30's was the rapid industrialization and all those bombs throwing particulates into the air. Pollution absorbed and reflected a significant amount of solar radiation, known as solar dimming. When pollution was reduced the warming restarted.

So unless you really want to live in air as bad as it was in the early 70's maybe we should find another solution.

Except the air quality today is worse than it was in the 70s.

Before the Clean Air Act was signed into law in 1963, the 20th century had witnessed a significant and continued increase in air pollution levels. Although efforts made during the 1960's by State and local air pollution agencies in certain polluted cities in the Northeast helped reduce pollution in some local areas, emissions continued to increase on a national level.

Between 1900 and 1970, emissions of nitrogen oxides increased 690 percent, volatile organic compounds increased 260 percent, and sulfur dioxide increased 210 percent. Emissions of these pollutants have decreased significantly since the passage of the 1970 Clean Air Act Amendments. Without pollution controls resulting from these Amendments, emissions would have continued to increase as illustrated in these charts.

Reference: U.S. Environmental Protection Agency



K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/4/2013 11:12:11 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 10:36:55 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		That was only fifty years after Krakatowa erupted. Couldn't have had anyhting to do with it, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE TODAY IF YOU LIGHT THAT CAMPFIRE !

QUICK, GOVERNEMNT TAX EVERYONE SO YOU CAN FIX IT !

T^T

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 10:39:26 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The reason warming slowed after the 30's was the rapid industrialization and all those bombs throwing particulates into the air.


OK then drop more fucking bombs ! You can't be against that. We have to wipe out these countries with the human rights violations, as long as they have natural resources that is.

T^T

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/4/2013 10:42:36 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Such fear of nothing.

T^T

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: 4% drop in CO2 emissions in one year - 8/5/2013 2:14:37 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

That was only fifty years after Krakatowa erupted. Couldn't have had anyhting to do with it, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE TODAY IF YOU LIGHT THAT CAMPFIRE !

QUICK, GOVERNEMNT TAX EVERYONE SO YOU CAN FIX IT !

T^T

Krakatoa would have had little if any impact on the world's climate 50 years after the explosion. 5 to 10 years later it definitely did but by 50 years later effectively all the particulates were out of the air. And the Krakatoa eruption would have served to cool the planet not warm it which is the opposite of the trend seen in the 1920's and 30's.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 8/5/2013 2:16:09 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 60
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