RE: Real BDSM

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KennelDeSade2 -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:42:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO But really - how does one gage someone's experience level? It's a serious (and not unimportant) question that did result from this thread topic (so all is not lost, hopefully). -Susan Agreed, we might as well salvage something. But a question first. Your experience level, or another's? If you don't have a lot of experience, then you may not catch the subtle things that a person with more time in grade (sorry, had to) would pick up on. But one clue is that if you go to a auto mechanic and he claims ten years experience, but has only a 12x8x6 inch toolbox, you can pretty safely assume he is being less than truthful. I've found the same in general applies to a Top, in that if he has two toys or tools, which had seen little wear, then. . Well. Your own experience, much easier. Claim what you feel is reasonable, and then explain when asked. As for the OP.... I'm not ever sure what the question was.

fullofgrace -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:43:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller However, BDSM is a matter of sexuality. Sexuality is private. actually, i'd beg to differ. there are aspects of bdsm (such as the, um, 24/7 d/s aspect) that for many don't JUST revolve around sexuality. this seems like a thread created simply for you to be the happy little arbiter of truth and falsity and listen to yourself judge other people by YOUR standards. i don't really abide by judgment; i find it, yes, crass and rude (and i find you rather condescending and irritating). ironbear, thank you for your post. also, as la mentioned, you failed to define real and pseudo - my guess would be because that leaves you open to making up your definition as you go along so you can agree with what you want to agree with and disagree with what you don't.

mistoferin -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:44:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller Also most people are idiots, as we have previously experimentally established. Why should that deter anyone ? Did I say it should? On the far end of the spectrum I admire people who are undaunted by the insurmountable...and at the very least I am entertained by them. Please, by all means, forge on in your exercise in futility.

mnottertail -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:44:34 AM)
LOLOL, It may be that time in service is easier to reckon than time in grade...... Been there, done that.

juliaoceania -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:44:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller The inability to clearly see this difference, often enough voluntary, due to the catfighting reflexively prompted by any suggestion that this or that is or is not "real BDSM", where "real" is of course seen as an ethical distinction, put the community in a very strange position, and in my oppinion generate most of the drama. Well you talk a lot about there being a difference between "real" bdsm and "psuedo" bdsm- but you don't clearly define either term or what necessarily differentiates one from the other. I get that you think there's a difference, but I have no idea what you consider that difference to be (other than one being "playing" and the other "real" which again really doesn't define anything). Zenofellow, I would like you to address what LA stated above. At the very least I would like a basis from which to view this "intellectual" discourse that you started here. Anyone knows that you cannot debate something without first defining it. On Edit: I read your definition after this and it still isn't a real definition in my mind, people have to agree on the definition and I very much doubt you could get us to.

IronBear -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:46:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fullofgrace quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller However, BDSM is a matter of sexuality. Sexuality is private. actually, i'd beg to differ. there are aspects of bdsm (such as the, um, 24/7 d/s aspect) that for many don't JUST revolve around sexuality. this seems like a thread created simply for you to be the happy little arbiter of truth and falsity and listen to yourself judge other people by YOUR standards. i don't really abide by judgment; i find it, yes, crass and rude (and i find you rather condescending and irritating). ironbear, thank you for your post. also, as la mentioned, you failed to define real and pseudo - my guess would be because that leaves you open to making up your definition as you go along so you can agree with what you want to agree with and disagree with what you don't. Salute'

SusanofO -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:47:05 AM)
Kennel - I was referring to theirs (mine is next to zero in most people's books, probably - a year w/a man we saw eachother a few times a week and did spanking, bondage, whipping, and cropping (and a few other things) - but by no means what some here have done. That is a very helpful answer - I really never did think of that, thank you. - Susan

zenofeller -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:50:30 AM)
since it apparently managed to get somehow overlooked, let me repeat. quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller albatross, erin, in fact i have a simple answer. when you do things that others control, or at least impact the outcome of, you're real. when you do things only when you alone control the outcome of, you're fake. now grace, that's an excellent objection. on one hand, the crying mothers with babes and what not, on the other the people who don't want to play pretend about their relationship just because some others can't stomach it. no simple answers there, i don't think.

juliaoceania -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:57:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller since it apparently managed to get somehow overlooked, let me repeat. quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller albatross, erin, in fact i have a simple answer. when you do things that others control, or at least impact the outcome of, you're real. when you do things only when you alone control the outcome of, you're fake. now grace, that's an excellent objection. on one hand, the crying mothers with babes and what not, on the other the people who don't want to play pretend about their relationship just because some others can't stomach it. no simple answers there, i don't think. You seem to concentrate on the Ds Ms aspect of the BDSM paradigm...a there is more to BDSM than control zeno, I could ask sweetly for someone to top me from the bottom and spank me silly... I would be engaging in SM, still a part of BDSM. Power exchange or control is not necessary to be involved with the lifestyle. Masochists and sadists do not necessarily exchange power at all. I would say your whole premise of "real" versus "fake" BDSM is flawed. Edited for a typo

artglfr -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:58:22 AM)
to gauge experience level, watch them at play parties, Munches, read CM Posts. Ask questions of people You trust. Ask them questions. Trust how YOU feel about anyones level of experience and go with what YOU believe AFTER using all the input.

darkinshadows -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 6:59:17 AM)
quote: this seems like a thread created simply for you to be the happy little arbiter of truth and falsity and listen to yourself judge other people by YOUR standards. i don't really abide by judgment; i find it, yes, crass and rude (and i find you rather condescending and irritating). But your statement, is a judgement in itself - so you must be crass and rude as well. There isnt anything wrong in making a judgement when based on personal truth. If you use your own defination and not follow the crowd or the moral code. Ethically, judgements are beautiful and personal. Peace and Rapture

mnottertail -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:01:17 AM)
Sound of mind..... Which is the crux of the issue................. It is ALL psuedo BDSM until the rubber meets the ass. Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby...........ain't nothin' like the real thing.

SusanofO -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:02:51 AM)
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense to me. Appreciate it. - Susan

zenofeller -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:02:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You seem to concentrate on the Ds Ms aspect of the BDSM paradigm...a there is more to BDSM than control zeno, I could ask sweetly for someone to top me from the bottom and spank me silly... I would be engaging in SM, still a part of BDSM. Power exchange or control is not necessary to be involved with the lifestyle. Masochists and sadists do not necessarily exchange power at all. I would say your whole premise of "real" versus "fake" BDSM is flawed. for the first time on this board, i have absolutely no idea what you're saying. please be kind and take me slowly. i say that the outcomes are the result of human interaction, you're real, and if not, you're not. i understand you to be saying that 1. i only talk about Doms or Masters (why ?) 2. being topped from the bottom is not a matter of control (i think it is) 3.power exchange or control isnt a pre-requisite for bdsm (i never said it was, not that i mean it isn't, but anyway) now as you can see, virtually every phrase in your post reads to me as either false or unrelated, some of them both. i must be missing something. <edited to explain 2>

darkinshadows -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:03:34 AM)
quote: You seem to concentrate on the Ds Ms aspect of the BDSM paradigm...a there is more to BDSM than control zeno, I could ask sweetly for someone to top me from the bottom and spank me silly... I would be engaging in SM, still a part of BDSM. Power exchange or control is not necessary to be involved with the lifestyle. Masochists and sadists do not necessarily exchange power at all. I would say your whole premise of "real" versus "fake" BDSM is flawed. But within your request, there is still a power exchange. I maybe wrong, but what I believe Zeno is getting at is that without the power exchange, BDSM isn't really BDSM. If one works on the premise that BDSM is an acronym, which it is, then the power exchange is there in every item on the list... there no doubt in that. Even in a masturbatory relationship there is still an exchange of power. Without the exchange of power, BDSM isnt BDSM. Peace and Rapture

zenofeller -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:06:42 AM)
basically, if you just jack off, you just jack off. but if you have to ask permission first, persay, you are not just playing with yourself, and that interaction is what makes it bdsm.

darkinshadows -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:08:49 AM)
quote: 3.power exchange or control isnt a pre-requisite for bdsm (i never said it was) Masturbation - isnt BDSM. But you can masturbate and it can be an act of BDSM. Just because one is alone, does not make it unreal. I thought at first you were indicating that BDSM must have the PE. I find that interesting. But I think I am understanding it more now - although I am having a hard time verbalising it - I can see it visually, but the words are failing me. Peace and Rapture

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:09:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zenofeller basically, if you just jack off, you just jack off. but if you have to ask permission first, persay, you are not just playing with yourself, and that interaction is what makes it bdsm. Then how do your initial examples apply? Obviously in the example of a girl being able to cut herself loose- the top ALLOWED that to happen. The top said "I'm setting this up so you can let yourself out if necessary" The top is still the one in the authority position.

darkinshadows -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:10:57 AM)
If you jack off alone though, but need to bind you ankles together first, you are submitting to the urge and exchanging that in doing it. Jacking off is like you say, jacking off... but getting off on the bondage and jacking off, the PE is there, even if it is just within an individual - so there isn't even a black and white way to say that all masturbation isnt BDSM. Peace and Rapture

zenofeller -> RE: Real BDSM (6/29/2006 7:13:25 AM)
the entire "is is or is it not a power exchange" discussion i would rather leave untouched. i think it's just an artificial construct with absolutely no content. one can happily take the extreme stand that breathing is a power exchange, because in the act of breathing we acknowledge our life depends on it, it's not a choice, it's a need. that absurdity couldn't be countered and so voila, everyone on earth, people and animals are into power exchange.

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