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Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 4:41:25 PM

BambiBoi

Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
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At a recent munchette we discussed what is most attractive in a submissive. My response was "showing initiative" (both vanilla and during play).

Ignoring times when the command specifically prohibits showing initiative, how do you feel about it?

Do you feel less submissive doing things without being told?
Does it feel like topping from the bottom?
Do you think it reflects laziness on behalf of the top?
Is showing initiative been rewarded in your dynamic?

To clarify what I mean by "showing initiative" here are some hypothetical examples:

-Shopping online for new toys/kinks/scenes.
-Unsolicited massages/cooking/laundry/shoe shining
-Initiating sex, specifically the more one-sided sex acts.
-If you're poly, finding a potential new playmate.
-Taking "your place" whether it be kneeling, in Top's lap, on a doggy bed.
-Volunteering to drive someone to the airport.
-Making and bringing tea without being asked (falls under "unsolicited domestic stuff above, I suppose)

My thoughts:
Showing initiative is a "show don't tell" way of communicating that you enjoy the dynamic and submitting. It both shows the sub is not just enduring playtime and reinforces the submissive's consent and desire for play. It makes my life easier. It makes me feel like the Alpha male in the pack to have my lioness hunt and bring home Gazelles while I play cards with my buddies and roar at things.

Alternatively, no submissive wants to be topping themselves for very long. Ad absurbium, no submissive wants to pick the crop, put it in the Top's hand, and hurry into position before the arm swings down only to set up this absurd scenario again. What is the line for you? What actions fall under the province of the Top that you think "it's not my place to act/plan/do without orders." (This is obviously different per relationship, so if you'd share I'm asking you specifically).

Would you be comfortable being required to do more?

Tongue in cheek, I offer this webcomic.

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Post #: 1

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 6:24:04 PM

chastity24me

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/7/2013
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What you describe seems like something that male subs do more than female subs. In my experience, it is the female subs that have difficulty 'taking initiative', for whatever reason (I won't speculate because it would just move us away from the subject). As a Master, there are times where I would be very happy if my Slave did things for me without being told to do so or me knowing ahead of time.

I want her to have the confidence in herself to do things without my strict permission (even if they may be the wrong decisions). Taking initiative is one way of showing me that she does in fact have confidence in herself. As for the sub/slaves' concerns, a good Master or Dom should be perfectly fine with their Sub/Slave taking initiative (the Dom/Master will just say no, or tell her what else to do instead if he doesn't like it). Just try to be moderate with what you are taking initiative with (bringing home a new sub without his knowledge may backfire). Likewise, if you spend a lot of money, he might not be happy (or may feel guilty).

Certainly asking for advice before taking initiative is also an option (with a friend / mentor or online if you take it with a grain of salt).

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 2

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 7:26:26 PM

theshytype

Posts: 1600
Status: offline

I've never been in a relationship that started with D/s in mind so I'm not confident that I'm qualified to share my view but I will anyway.

In all the relationships I have had in the past, vanilla or not, making him very happy has always been my goal. In my eyes, he can be happy with what he expects. Or, he can be very happy with more than what he expects.
I love that he takes charge. I insist he does. But, I love surprising him and going beyond what he expects.

I initiate sex probably more than he does, especially if its one-sided.
I take care of all the housework.
I'll surprise him at work sometimes.
Make a special dessert or meal if he's had a rough day.
I'll crawl to his feet and lay my head in his lap.

On the flip side, I don't think I could be with someone that did not allow me to take some initiative at times. To surprise him with something unexpected or not requested.
I just wouldn't feel adequate enough if I were just adequate. If that makes any sense at all.

I don't consider it me taking charge at all because he still has the final say in anything I do or propose.

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 3

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 7:29:24 PM

kalikshama

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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Certainly asking for advice before taking initiative is also an option

This works well with us because he like my initiative AND likes to give input. So, my surprising him with a new sex toy was not as big a success as me saying "I think a ball gag would be fun; do you like this style?"

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Post #: 4

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 7:38:35 PM

BambiBoi

Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
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Kali and Shy bring up a good point. Initiative does not require taking control or dropping surprises.

What I've seen, in my limited view, is consistent with Chastity... Male subs are expected to take initiative and female subs are expected to obey. For a certainty, our society still tacitly approves of male-leadership and female following. I guess it follows into BDSM more than expected. Most female submissives I know use phrases like "feeling desired" or "being chased." Most male submissives I know, even though they have service on the mind, approach BDSM as "I need to get that one' where they are on the "hunt" to serve.

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(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 5

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 9:14:20 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

At a recent munchette we discussed what is most attractive in a submissive. My response was "showing initiative" (both vanilla and during play).

Ignoring times when the command specifically prohibits showing initiative, how do you feel about it?

For me, attraction doesn't weigh into it. What he finds attractive about me has to do with my personality all the way around. My desire to do things for him factors into it, of course.

But on the subject of initiative, sometimes he wants me to and sometimes he doesn't. As we move further along in our relationship, I'm more comfortable in taking initiative about things, because I know what he'll like and what he won't. But truth be told, I don't really think about it much.

quote:

Do you feel less submissive doing things without being told?

No. My submission isn't tied to that at all.

quote:

Does it feel like topping from the bottom?

Not at all. But then I don't believe I *can* top from the bottom in this relationship, because he either allows what I do or he doesn't. It all boils down to his choice in the end.

quote:

Do you think it reflects laziness on behalf of the top?

Not necessarily. I don't relate to "top laziness" because he isn't lazy. I suppose if he never instructed me to do anything, then maybe...but with us there seems to be a healthy blend of instruction vs. initiative vs. don't take initiative.

quote:

Is showing initiative been rewarded in your dynamic?

Well, he appreciates when I think of him and do things for him - I don't consider that a "reward", though.

quote:

To clarify what I mean by "showing initiative" here are some hypothetical examples:

-Shopping online for new toys/kinks/scenes.
-Unsolicited massages/cooking/laundry/shoe shining
-Initiating sex, specifically the more one-sided sex acts.
-If you're poly, finding a potential new playmate.
-Taking "your place" whether it be kneeling, in Top's lap, on a doggy bed.
-Volunteering to drive someone to the airport.
-Making and bringing tea without being asked (falls under "unsolicited domestic stuff above, I suppose)

All of this pretty much comes naturally with us. Other than bringing him something without being asked - I don't do that, because he might not want it. But I'll ask him if he'd like a refill, etc., and go from there.

quote:

My thoughts:
Showing initiative is a "show don't tell" way of communicating that you enjoy the dynamic and submitting. It both shows the sub is not just enduring playtime and reinforces the submissive's consent and desire for play. It makes my life easier. It makes me feel like the Alpha male in the pack to have my lioness hunt and bring home Gazelles while I play cards with my buddies and roar at things.

I see it as ways of expressing my love to him.

quote:

Alternatively, no submissive wants to be topping themselves for very long. Ad absurbium, no submissive wants to pick the crop, put it in the Top's hand, and hurry into position before the arm swings down only to set up this absurd scenario again. What is the line for you? What actions fall under the province of the Top that you think "it's not my place to act/plan/do without orders." (This is obviously different per relationship, so if you'd share I'm asking you specifically).

I never really thought of a "line" before, perhaps because I don't think it applies here. Things just mesh with us, and we blend with it. If I ever want to do something for him and he hasn't instructed me to, then I ask him if I can do it for him. If there's a type of play he hasn't done in awhile and I'm craving it, I'll ask him for it.

quote:

Would you be comfortable being required to do more?

Yes.

quote:

Tongue in cheek, I offer this webcomic.

Cute, but not something I relate to.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 6

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 9:23:27 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

Do you feel less submissive doing things without being told? Carol doesn't feel submissive.
Does it feel like topping from the bottom? We both think that concept is ludicrous.
Do you think it reflects laziness on behalf of the top? No
Is showing initiative been rewarded in your dynamic? Very much so.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 7

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 9:24:17 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Does it feel like topping from the bottom? We both think that concept is ludicrous.

I do, too.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 8

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 9:53:29 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

As do I.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 9

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 10:18:09 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

This seems to be the difference between anticipatory service and waiting for an order.

Neither is right or wrong. If you know the D always wants a beer when he walks in the door, then you should have it ready. If he sometimes wants a beer, and sometimes wants water, and sometimes hot tea then you do better to ask him what he wants instead of guessing.

The other thing about toy buying, is that you better not be wedded to the idea that he'll like it. Because if it will feel like a slap in the face if you buy a new toy which he looks at and says he has no interest in, then that's a problem.

He likes anticipatory service. I don't, and I mean really really don't, like being wrong. So I prefer to ask him what he wants as that way I don't take the rejection personally.

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(in reply to Winterapple)

Post #: 10

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 10:46:59 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

To answer the OP's question ( btw thought it was a interesting post)

Do I feel less submissive doing things without being told?
No, I would feel incompetent if I always had to be told .

Do I think it indicates laziness on the part of the top?
No, not all.

Do I?
Shop for toys/kinks/scenes? Yes for toys but ask before I buy.
Massage/cooking/laundry/ shoe shining. I do all those things.
Initiating sex, I ask first(with some exceptions)
Taking your place, I automatically kneel, sit on lap when it's
indicated I should do so.
Making tea etc, yes all the time.

Like Nueva if there's a type of play I'm craving I will say so.
It's up to him whether we do it or not. This hasn't happened
very often.

Web comic, I thought it was very funny.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to Winterapple)

Post #: 11

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/6/2013 11:05:49 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple
Web comic, I thought it was very funny.

LOL. THANK YOU for saying that. I'd blown it off on the first read.

For those that did the same... don't LOL

That's going in my favorites right next to xkcd

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Winterapple)

Post #: 12

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/7/2013 10:23:18 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Do you feel less submissive doing things without being told?
No, if I see a task or issue undone it is my personality to fix it.

Does it feel like topping from the bottom?
No, topping from the bottom to me is manipulative.

Do you think it reflects laziness on behalf of the top?
No. A top is only a playmate for me. If you also mean a dominant, I would still say no because I wouldn't be staying with someone who only played dominant

Is showing initiative been rewarded in your dynamic?
It always has been

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 13

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/7/2013 4:31:03 PM

BambiBoi

Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
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I'm not sure what I was expecting. Everyone is so agreeable and well rounded. I concur that "topping from the bottom" only exists when the top allows it.

I'm trying to square this with how rare self motivated subs have been in my life. Some are plainly the "do-me" type, but most submissives I know what to be chased and have their life plotted for them like a kinky real-life game of The Sims.

The sample size here is not representative. You are all people who enjoy communicating about BDSM so much you come to a website to do it (all of you with over 1,000 posts save Chastity). Maybe those less inclined to communicate for funsies are the type I run into.

Am I alone in having run into a long series of particularly unimpressive prospective partners?

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Post #: 14

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/7/2013 7:47:11 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Are you making this part of your partner selection process? Are you asking them if they envision being submissive as doing things for you without being ordered?

Because not everyone's really into anticipatory service.

Beyond the fact that there's a risk of rejection and it's a fair question to ask them how they handle being told they went out of their way to please you but it was a total fail, there's also the fact that from the sub pov, being ordered is just hotter.

And yes, it's fair for us to need that hotness every once in a while. It shouldn't be us scurrying about trying to figure out what you want while you sit there watching tv.

Generic you, not you in specific.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 8/7/2013 8:07:06 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 15

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/7/2013 8:22:05 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Most things I have no problem taking initiative...buying things for him and the house, paying bills, choosing and making dinner, etc...but I don't really take initiative when it comes to sex and play but it's not because I am afraid to initiate, it just simply isn't something I think about very often. Master has a much higher libido than I do. So he usually starts it but then once he starts I become aroused. But until then it just never even crosses my mind. I wish it did and I feel bad a lot of times that I don't take initiative and don't have a high libido like him and I don't think about sex and/or playing much but I'm really not sure what I can do about that.

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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 16

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/7/2013 10:07:29 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I wish it did and I feel bad a lot of times that I don't take initiative and don't have a high libido like him and I don't think about sex and/or playing much but I'm really not sure what I can do about that.

Tequila.

Tequila gets me in trouble lol.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 17

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/7/2013 10:32:02 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

Rome wasn't built in a day. We spent a lot of time getting
to know one another as human beings and talked at length
about the sort of relationship we wanted. You have to know
someone before you can anticipate what their needs and desires
are. You learn the rhythm of their life. How much sleep they
need, how much talking they do in the morning, when they
like to take a break and "have a nap". You learn when they
want coffee and when they like to have a beer.

When you meet potential partners are you thinking about what
life outside the bedroom with them would be like? Do you
talk about that with them as you're getting to know them?

I should also clarify something I put in my post about initiating
sex. When I said I usually ask first I meant I usually ask him
before I pounce on him. He enjoys me asking. He usually doesn't
ask he just pounces. He initiates sex more than I do but we are
on the same page for the most part when it comes to how much
and how often.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to BambiBoi)

Post #: 18

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/7/2013 10:41:45 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I feel bad a lot of times that I don't take initiative and don't have a high libido like him and I don't think about sex and/or playing much but I'm really not sure what I can do about that.

If I recall correctly, you have some health conditions that can quash libido. That's life, and from reading your posts over the years it's evident that your partner loves you dearly the way you are so there's no need to feel inadequate. Take the pressure off!

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 8/7/2013 10:56:32 PM >

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 19

RE: Showing a Little Initiative - 8/8/2013 8:45:19 AM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

-- never mind, link isn't working right

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 8/8/2013 8:51:48 AM >

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Post #: 20

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