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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 10:17:52 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline 		Spot on.

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WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 10:28:38 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
You would think those would be common sense, however, if you felt the need to share them, then they must not be.

I can't agree with #2. Between Carol and I given our personalities that idea that she could set limits for me is ludicrous. Or, if she did manage to do so by the time she did it I'd have done so much emotional damage that it might have killed her. No, if you actually believe in the idea of dominant and submissive as native personality types then you have to posit that with enough of a spread things like "consent" become problematic.

That's why I don't deal in consent. She can't really. I deal in "Do good".

By the way, thanks for hanging with me on my earlier wrong answers. This has been a great thread. For what it's worth, I predict good things for you and your wife.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 11:35:16 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Unlike some others here I *do* have a training plan for my submissive.

In my mind, there is more to being a submissive than lying there and taking it. I have high expectations of graceful and respectful obedience. I think graceful and respectful obedience is an art form, and one most people, unless they are quite submissive in personality, are not especially good at.

I look at training in the BDSM context as similar to being taught how to drive a car. Each vehicle may have its idiosyncrasies, but the basics of driving a car are universal from one car to the next. Having good driving training always comes in handy, and especially when things go wrong. Instead of panicking, you have some good training to fall back on.

We recently had occasion to spend a very hectic and stressful five days together in which the words 'just do it' came out of my mouth often. He performed beautifully, though later when we talked about it, he did consider balking at times. What brought him through was his deep bond with me.

Which is why my training plan revolves around deepening the emotional bond between us. We may work on other things, like self esteem, but none of that means anything if you don't have that bond.

BTW: He is a male s-type who lives with his primary (I have a dominant primary) due to distance and career issues we meet a few times a year for 1-2 days. So our relationship is quite different b/c we don't live together and generally don't spend large amounts of time together.

You have the supreme advantage of already having a bonded relationship in which you have laid a foundation of trust and mutual respect. I hope. If you don't, you will discover it. But this will give you an opportunity to fix what's broken.

Best, CP





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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/6/2013 11:46:54 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
He likes using the word "training" because he knows it bugs me lol.

OK, that was a nose full of wine. It still stings.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 12:05:43 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Master and I are in an M/s relationship. This didn't happen overnight - we went from vanilla "getting to know you" for several months to "let's try adding a little D/s" for a year or so to "wow, I think this is really M/s".

During that time we talked a LOT about our vision for 'us' and what we thought would make us happy. These thoughts have changed over the past year or so due to outside and inside influences and we have adjusted our aims as a result. I believe our aims will change even more as we go through the years, something that a training programme may not take into account.

My concern would be that any hint of formality in our relationship might distract us from 'us' and start us thinking about what we 'should' be doing. Our relationship is what matters - the M/s is just the icing on the cake

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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 1:14:32 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
My concern would be that any hint of formality in our relationship might distract us from 'us' and start us thinking about what we 'should' be doing. Our relationship is what matters - the M/s is just the icing on the cake

For us, the simple answer to that was to avoid believing that random strangers on the internet had any fucking clue what they were talking about particularly as it relates to us. Let me mangle my favorite KnightOfMysts quote yet again...

"Sometimes I think the worst thing someone can do to their relationship is label it and then try to live up to that label"

We introduced structure and formality but it was entirely custom designed from the ground up to be all about 'us'. I was always pretty clear that what we 'should' be doing is what made 'us' happy. We did label it... but the label and it's criteria were custom made. I doubt I'd be much of a 'master' by internet wisdom.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 3:27:54 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Pretty much spot on, Jeff

Although I think I would expand one of your comments to say:

For us, the simple answer to that was to avoid believing that random strangers on the internet or poncing about the local fet club with a furry flogger in one hand and a stick up their ass had any fucking clue what they were talking about particularly as it relates to us.

Most of the really bad (and unwanted/unasked for) 'advice' or 'suggestions' we had in the early days of our relationship was from people who saw how we interacted at clubs and tried to 'sort us out'. This is part of the reason we don't go to public clubs any more, but stick to private parties with good friends. Part of my duties to Master include telling the 'one twue wayers' to take a long walk off a short pier

But the rest of what you said pretty much sums us up too. We are what we are, the labels we apply to each other depend solely on our definitions of those labels, and the rest of the 'community' is welcome to sod off if they disagree!


< Message edited by myotherself -- 8/7/2013 3:30:44 AM >

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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 7:13:53 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline 		I'm training the girl to hunt down and murder all my enemies, if that counts?

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Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 7:41:37 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

I'm training the girl to hunt down and murder all my enemies, if that counts?





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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 8:11:12 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Let me mangle my favorite KnightOfMysts quote yet again...

"Sometimes I think the worst thing someone can do to their relationship is label it and then try to live up to that label"


That's an awesome quote.


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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 9:00:33 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
But the rest of what you said pretty much sums us up too. We are what we are, the labels we apply to each other depend solely on our definitions of those labels, and the rest of the 'community' is welcome to sod off if they disagree!

For me I came to realize that a label is just a label. Let's suppose I introduce Carol and I as "Master/slave" and after hearing about our relationship someone says to me, "I think you're more traditional marriage". OK, neat... now I know what label interprets the reality of our marriage in their head so I swap over to husband/wife terminology. Besides, that's a perfectly plausible description of our marriage. I figured out my need in such a moment was to communicate with the other person not to win some label war.

Further, whatever label we apply to Carol and I the underlying reality remains the same. ROFL, a reality I know all too well from moments like now where I'm playing my own "label games" -- which is pretty much the net result of me "releasing Carol". OK, I've released her. Has anything changed? Hrrrm, not really. So if even my own labeling is meaningless or near so then whatever label some outside person applies is surely less so.

In the end, the point of a word is to communicate a concept. If I know the right mapping between "the truth of our marriage" and "word in listener's head" then why wouldn't I use it?

PS: I think that there might be a sunny quote of the day in... "or poncing about the local fet club with a furry flogger in one hand and a stick up their ass" LOL. Is that some sort of kink like a wierd combination of sadism, anal fetish and exhhibitionism coupled with a strong does of humiliation?

PPS: I'm hoping this little tangent is useful to OP who will undoubtedly need to wrestle with this a bit himself. My response to you didn't mean to imply I thought YOU hand't figured this out yet :) I just like OP so as stuff comes up that I stubbed a toe on I think it's worth bringing up in case he does too.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 9:03:19 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso
I'm training the girl to hunt down and murder all my enemies, if that counts?

Wow! Why didn't I think of that? Now THAT is a high-utility training program I could get behind. Plus it fits in well with OP's military theme.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Apocalypso)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 9:10:14 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

For me I came to realize that a label is just a label. Let's suppose I introduce Carol and I as "Master/slave" and after hearing about our relationship someone says to me, "I think you're more traditional marriage".


That's the way it is for us, too. We're part 1950's, TPE, consensual-nonconsent, and delegation to a high touch personal assistant. There have been people that have been amazed at the TPE level in our relationship and others that wonder how he tolerates having an unsubmissive submissive. But, I long ago learned that none of it matters as long as we're comfortable and happy. (Plus, being happy tends to piss off the haters)


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 9:18:46 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The purpose of my inquiry was this...

I completed 13 weeks of basic training when I entered the military. From my perspective it was 13 weeks of absolute anarchy, chaos, and confusion. It wasn't until sometime later, that I reflected on the experience and realized that it was entirely scientific in design. Everything we did had a reason behind it. There was a comprehensive training plan in place, and the Drill Instructors accomplished exactly what they set out to do. As I begin exploring this lifestyle and thinking about the totality of the Dom/sub relationship, it made me think that maybe having a customized comprehensive plan for that sub wouldn't be such a bad thing. Putting some thought and structure into what we are trying to accomplish, and the best methods for getting there would be a worthwhile endevour, IMHO.


If you're looking for a legion of submissives who all submit in orderly, uniform, regimented ways, you need only find women who would do it. Good luck with that.

If you're looking for a submissive for a relationship, of any type, you're going to have to learn that everyone is different, and work from there.

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 9:50:19 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Plus, being happy tends to piss off the haters

If someone wants to apply a different label I just see that as communication. If someone wants to actually get all obnoxious my general [internal only] response is, "We are happier than you are. We've been happier than you are for a long time. And my whatever-you-want-to-cal-her obeys me WAY more than your super-slave obeys you. I'm cool with all that."

The only time that actually happened though was some Domme who kindly took it upon herself to tell Carol how to be a good slave. I took one look at Carol backed into a corner and... uh .... handled the situation. There can be only one response to another dominant personality attacking what is mine. Still though, I'd have ignored it were it not for the panicked look on Carol's face.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 10:01:59 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

But, I long ago learned that none of it matters as long as we're comfortable and happy. (Plus, being happy tends to piss off the haters)


Years ago I labeled myself "slave" and then spent all of my energy trying to adapt to what my definition of "slave" was. The result of that was a lot of personal misery.

These days some might see me as slave and some may not and I really don't care either way. Even in my profile I wrote that the only label I place on myself anymore is HAPPY. When I first started being happy I learned just how much unhappy people don't like that. It has been fascinating to see how quickly they moved out of my life. And I'm ok with that.


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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 10:24:43 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC



PPS: I'm hoping this little tangent is useful to OP who will undoubtedly need to wrestle with this a bit himself. My response to you didn't mean to imply I thought YOU hand't figured this out yet :) I just like OP so as stuff comes up that I stubbed a toe on I think it's worth bringing up in case he does too.



I thought that was the case

But hey, if two more ... ahem ... 'mature' kinksters are still kicking around these ideas and learning something new from them, then I think it's a good indication to others that perhaps there isn't one 'twue' way and that dominants don't know all the answers lol

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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 11:26:04 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
I just recently joined the message boards, and I am still reading and trying to catch up, so I apologize if this has been asked before.

I was curious, if anyone has developed a comprehensive training plan/outline when training their sub/slave? Or do most Dom/Dommes just plan a particular scene? Or is it more just kinky sex and spur of the moment?

Thank you in advance for your feedback.

You received really good answers from folks who applied this to their relationships. My ways are a little different, so I thought I'd chime in.

The thing about the thirteen weeks of basic training is that the military has certain goals of what they want recruits to be able to do at the end of that time period. The bottom line of that is "turn a recruit into a soldier who is ready to progress to AIT." That's the problem that I'm seeing in the thread, OP. In order to talk about the "comprehensive training plan" thing, there's this big, gaping hole because nobody here really knows what your goal is or what you want to accomplish out of it.

Like the other folks on the thread, I also separate play from dynamics. Play is pretty easy but the majority of that is on you as the top. You can do anything from spur of the moment to long, preplanned scenes with extensive work involved. What you want out of it will be the determining factors of what you have to put into it.

The dynamic part works the same way, but done differently. You say that you are a Dominant personality and she is a submissive personality. To Me, that means you've already got some D/s there between the two of you, so what parts of that do you want to accentuate? Do you want it more formalized with rituals and protocols in mind? Do you want there to be more authority? More power imbalance? Depending on what your answer to those questions would be will determine what you implement for you to progress.

The other thing that you might want to assess is what you've already got established so you know what your next step will be. For example, I'm working with a couple of new people now, so I'm starting with protocols. (A rough definition of a protocol is the standard way of how things are done.) That's mixed with just a bit of ritual. (Rough definition of a ritual is specific interactions between the people.) Both of those areas are a start with the basics and work your way up types. Since you and your wife already live together, you won't have to do a lot of what I'm doing now because you've already done it. You just aren't using that terminology to describe it.



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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 11:32:22 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I was kind of thinking that after having a good conversation about what we want out of this, that I should develop a game plan of how to get us there. Not for her so much, as for myself to have an organized approach to our development together.


I think your question is somewhat premature until you have had that convo and know what you want. Until then, Jeff's "go slow" works well for both D/s relationship issues and kinky sex issues.

For kinky sex, adding things slowly is nice. I've scened with someone who broke out the single tail our first meeting, which was too much. On the other hand, when my man and I started scening, he added elements gradually and built on them. He'd often give me a hint about what was going to happen next time, letting me stew on that in the interim.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/7/2013 3:07:24 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

Jeff,

Maybe I didn't articulate my analogy well. I was not suggesting a military style of training, I was merely pointing out that they had developed a plan taking into consideration what they were starting with, where they wanted to end up, and the best route to accomplish this. It was definitely scientifically designed. I was curious to see if that much thought went into to training a sub/slave, or if things just happened one scene at a time, or not at all.



"Knowing where you want to wind up" at the beginning of a relationship is a great first step towards ending the relationship.

For my thoughts on "Training", see here: https://fetlife.com/groups/347/group_posts/4236706

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 40
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