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RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/14/2013 1:27:31 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline 		My all time favorite:

Yes, the US Marines are a department of the Navy...they are the men's department!

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WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/14/2013 1:36:23 PM   
getoutnow


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/5/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Mmmmmm no........ Different skill set! Just like you don't need to be a slave to make the plan to train a slave


I have to agree with WarMachine94 here. You are getting the wrong end of the stick here or just plain not understanding him.

Look at the army. In a way, they train slaves. They give you a haircut, clothes to wear, work hours, where to sleep, what to eat. Overtime you are conditioned to be part of a unit, follow orders and obey.

Using this logic. You could take someone vanilla and turn them to be submissive. You just need to know the right pressure points. Similarly, you can take someone who hates anal to love it. Someone who will never be bi to be exclusively lesbian.

Like MasterofSteel said. Look at Stockholm Syndrom, I say look at other brain washing techniques out there. It's all up for grabs.

Training schedules are great. I am TPE myself. I have my own schedule to bring about internal enslavement so that they don't leave. Then I put in TPE to ensure they know how to act, what to say, when they can sleep, when they need to be up, what they are allowed to eat, who they are allowed to see, etc, etc. Just like a solider.

The tactics that I have been using, have been around for many years. Since WWII. If that gives you any indication.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/14/2013 2:46:12 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline 		Having been through it myself at some level, I know for a fact it is a very effective model for behavior modification.

The model looks basically like this:

Remove identity and individuality.
Suppress individual desire and replace it with dedication to the unit as a whole.
Insert approved behavior, appearance, ideals, etc.
Give new identity, rebuild confidence, and provide a clear purpose that is in line with the unit's goal(s).
Hold individual accountable for their actions or lack of actions, as appropriate.



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WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to getoutnow)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/14/2013 7:37:45 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:



quote:

Mmmmmm no........ Different skill set! Just like you don't need to be a slave to make the plan to train a slave


I disagree. The trainer must not only know the student's role, but have mastery of the entire subject matter. The trainer must be a subject matter expert in order to craft an effective training strategy.



Uh.. No... Cause I am definitely not a master of the entire subject matter. My success which frankly is far higher than you could expect to obtain to a compatible level for many years is in of itself evidence contrary to your opinion.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/14/2013 7:49:22 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline 		I respectfully disagree and conclude that the fact that you assume that you have any grasp of my success rates of ANYTHING is laughably egotistical. You don't know anything about me, my experiences, or successes. The skills needed to have someone surrender their existence to you are not only used in BDSM, and a reasonably intelligent person can use them to gain advantage in many other areas of life.

I thank you for you input, respect your point of view, and subsequently agree to disagree.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/14/2013 7:58:28 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: getoutnow


Using this logic. You could take someone vanilla and turn them to be submissive. You just need to know the right pressure points. Similarly, you can take someone who hates anal to love it. Someone who will never be bi to be exclusively lesbian.




Bull. You can change behavior. You cannot change personality. You could force someone to have same sex, you can't force them to enjoy it.

And forcing someone to have anal is not the way to teach them to enjoy and crave it.

Training is just teaching them what you want them to know. You need to know what you want them to learn and you need to be able to break it down into small enough steps that they can learn it.

You need to be able to explain things in different ways until they get it.

For what it's worth, the first thing The Man taught me was not sexual. It was how he liked his tea. When I screwed up, which I did occasionally, he pointed out the error and asked me to do it again, this time not putting milk in.

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Slave to laundry

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(in reply to getoutnow)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/14/2013 8:34:49 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Bull. You can change behavior. You cannot change personality. You could force someone to have same sex, you can't force them to enjoy it


You are then assuming that I care if they like it. What was the goal of my behavior mod initially? To get the person to enjoy same sex anal, or to abandon their core values, beliefs, and sexuality and submit to participating in same sex anal due to the influences being exerted on him by the one doing the programming?

If the goal was the latter, then the programmer successfully manipulated the subject into abandoning the very components (values, beliefs, sexuality, etc) that make up our self awareness and self image, or self identity. Because he was coerced it could be argued that it doesn't make him homosexual....yet. But protracted, and continued assault on these fundamental components that make up our own identity by repeatedly coercing same sex acts could, over time, allow for the reprogramming of his core beliefs and values where he now views HIMSELF differently, and subsequently identifies as homosexual and gains pleasure from same sex acts. This scenario is extreme, but I believe that under enough intense pressure the brain will accept complete reprogramming to include the characteristics that make up one's personality. Case in point, a social extrovert can be manipulated into becoming an introvert just from experiencing the constant stresses of combat. His personality has been altered, sometimes permanently.

From the responses, it is clear that there are varying perspectives, and that many feel quite certain that their perspective is undoubtedly correct. Since no one that has posted is qualified as a subject matter expert in the field of behavior modification and brain washing, we have to respect each other's opinions and encourage intelligent debate.


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WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 9:57:16 AM   
VideoAdminRho


Posts: 2055
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Several posts have been removed. If you did not receive a Gold Letter is was due to replying to a post that has been pulled. If you wish to have the content of your post, so that you may repost, please contact me.

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 11:57:34 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Look WM, guys in prison engage in same sex activities. Doesn't mean the moment they're released they don't go back to solely engaging in heterosexual sex. So yeah, while you have someone in your captivity, you can force them to do stuff for fear of what you'll do to them otherwise.

But you can't coerce someone you're dating to do this or they won't accept a second date. You can't do this inside a consensual relationship.

Now if you're planning to do a Cleveland criminal enslavement, I would suggest you look at how that's ended for him. And how even after ten years, the moment those women were released, they reverted to their true selves and tossed out the behaviors they had to engage in to survive.

So you looking for someone who wants to be with you or are you planning to kidnap unconsenting strangers off the street? Because the rest of us are talking about consensual relationships with someone who cares for us and for whom we care. You appear to be the only one aiming at illegal enslavement and violation of civil rights.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to VideoAdminRho)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 1:47:59 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline 		It is becoming clear to me that I somehow mistakenly believed that I was defending "certain unalienable rights" while risking my life and limb for this great nation. However, until my citizenship is revoked and/or I no longer have air in my lungs, I will not apologize for refusing to blindly accept the beliefs of another simply because it required less effort or because it was deemed "politically correct" to do so.

And if defending myself, or my beliefs, from attack using whatever means I have available, and deem appropriate at that given time, will in the future elicit similar responses from those appointed to watch over this place of discussion, learning, and sharing for those interested in any and all aspects of BDSM regardless of their level of knowledge, experience, opinion, or length of tenure, either here or within the BDSM community, then please let me know so that I can find a more suitable place to continue my journey.

For the record, in the short time I have been here, I have witnessed similar behavior directed towards others who don't share a particular point of view. Maybe it's just uncommon that a person doesn't roll over and accept it.

Finally, I am glad to be a part of this forum and to continue to listen, contribute, share, and learn from the more knowledgable, experienced, and civilized members here.


Interestingly enough, I just noticed this:

Collarchat.com © 2013
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition

I digress.

< Message edited by WarMachine904 -- 8/15/2013 2:06:38 PM >

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WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:00:01 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline
DesFIP,

I was not suggesting that this manner of control was legally or ethically appropriate within the BDSM community. I was simply presenting my opinion and the reasoning for arriving at this opinion, to demonstrate that it is POSSIBLE to change not only behavior, but to completely reprogram someone's personality also through intense and protracted pressure upon the brain itself through stressors being applied by the one who is doing the re-programming. As I tried to point out, before prior to having to address someone else, as no one to my knowledge, that had contributed had presented any credentials certifying them as subject matter experts, then this was nothing more than an exchange of individual ideas and thoughts in order to stimulate intelligent debate, not to suggest that it was morally or criminally acceptable.

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WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:06:15 PM   
VideoAdminChi


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

And if defending myself, or my beliefs, from attack using whatever means I have available, and deem appropriate at that given time, will in the future elicit similar responses from those appointed to watch over this place of discussion, learning, and sharing for those interested in any and all aspects of BDSM regardless of their level of knowledge, experience, opinion, or length of tenure, either here or within the BDSM community, then please let me know so that I can find a more suitable place to continue my journey.


If you see personal attacks, please use the Report feature, which will create a ticket for we mods to pick up. It's our job to handle personal attacks :)

For clarification and examples (which are not meant to be comprehensive), please see http://www.collarchat.com/m_4246625/mpage_6/key_/tm.htm#4248463

If further discussion along these lines is necessary, it should go in a new thread in the Off Topic forum. Further discussion on this thread will be removed as it will create a hijack of the thread. I am also happy to discuss this with you via CMail.

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:06:16 PM   
getoutnow


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/5/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Bull. You can change behavior. You cannot change personality. You could force someone to have same sex, you can't force them to enjoy it.

And forcing someone to have anal is not the way to teach them to enjoy and crave it.



Who said anything about forcing? I've never forced anything on anyone.

Forcing someone to do something just re-enforces them NOT to like it.

Jeeze, learn to read posts next time!

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:08:29 PM   
VideoAdminChi


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		Alrighty, let's all take a deep breath before continuing to post.

(in reply to getoutnow)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:14:41 PM   
WarMachine904


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline 		So has anyone heard the one about the guy that walks into the bar?



My best attempt at a comedic pause...

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WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to VideoAdminChi)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:48:26 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
Interestingly enough, I just noticed this:

Collarchat.com © 2013
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition

I digress.

Do you really know the objectives of that organization (FSC, better known as NCSF) or are you thinking it means that everybody can say what they want regarding sex?



< Message edited by LadyPact -- 8/15/2013 2:53:37 PM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:54:32 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904


Interestingly enough, I just noticed this:

Collarchat.com © 2013
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition



And interestingly enough, that doesn't mean what you think it does:

quote:

The Free Speech Coalition is the trade association for the adult entertainment industry. Our members consist of a broad range of adult businesses from producers and webmasters to manufacturers, retailers and many, many more.

As the trade association for the adult entertainment industry our responsibilities are threefold: One, to be the watchdog for the adult entertainment industry guarding against unconstitutional and oppressive government intervention; Two, to be a voice for the industry telling the truth about the adult entertainment industry not only in the vital role it plays as an economic contributor, but also in its contribution to quality of life in a healthy society; and finally to provide business resources for our members to facilitate successful businesses in this ever-changing and challenging business environment.

If you are a visitor to our site, welcome and congratulations for taking the time to learn about the real adult entertainment industry, a legal, vital entertainment industry created for adults by adults.

If you are a member of FSC, welcome and thank you for your continued support. We are here for you and because of you. Let me assure you that we will continue to support adult businesses and fight for freedom of speech respecting the inherent right of adults to be adults.


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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to WarMachine904)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Training Plan for your sub/slave... - 8/15/2013 2:55:18 PM   
VideoAdminChi


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		FR,

Further comments regarding free speech should be taken to a new thread.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 78
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