RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..."

RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:03:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Any moron who has been paying attention knows that the religious right would happily kill all the atheists. The "religious right" does not equate to everyone who opposes abortion. And incidentally, a moron would have enough sense to realize that fevered ravings about 45% of the American population wanting to kill them might be a tad diagnostic. [image]http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/jzdsjk1eqkwd0q_nzrmr6g.gif[/image] K.

Arturas -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:11:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: You know, at one time the latest scientific study said the earth was flat and everyone agreed with it because it was a scientific study. Nonsense. Exactly my point. Using the latest scientific study to decide if we must avoid sailing off the edge of the world is like using the latest scientific study to decide when a yet unborn baby can feel pain, or dream, or hear their mother's voice as she sings to them because unless we sail out to the New World or ask that unborn child then one cannot say and this is okay because we are not meant to ask the child, we are meant to love our child.

DomKen -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:16:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Any moron who has been paying attention knows that the religious right would happily kill all the atheists. The "religious right" does not equate to everyone who opposes abortion. And incidentally, a moron would have enough sense to realize that fevered ravings about 45% of the American population wanting to kill them might be a tad diagnostic. I wasn't raving. I was stating a fact. The religious right, which is the driving force behind the forced birth movement, would gleefully kill me and mine. I never said anything about all forced birthers wanting to kill me. Learn to read.

tazzygirl -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:24:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: Thats what RvW took out... the morality of this issue. Its a medical one, period. I agree those who destroy their offspring are using a legal ruling by ex-lawyers. I also suspect this occurred only because those same offspring were not there to say, 'I exist', 'I want to live' , 'I have the same origin you have and I want the same opportunity to breath and live and love!' and we implore you to 'protect us for our mothers will not'. One must also note that "Ms. Roe" is pro-life now. Her current status has what to do with the SC decision... for that matter, she was once deeply attracted to women... something else that has no bearing on abortions. And, no, they arent there to say anything. Over 800,000 abortions a year... that we have documented. Fair estimates are around 1.2 million a year. Less than 1% post viability. And all that has to do with the law in what way? I am all for pro-lifers getting the law changed. Go for it. Do whatever you feel the morality in your heart dictates you should do. Then answer to that morality when maternal deaths rise. Oh, I am sure you will grin from ear to ear and think... Another fucking slut spread her legs, now she is dead. You are trying to pull an emotional response out of me that you just cant get. I am pro-choice. Each woman who makes that decision, one way or the other, answers to herself every day she wakes up. Each woman has to make that decision for herself. Now, I could see your bitch if someone was trying to force tammy to have an abortion. But, no one is being forced. So its your morality that you are trying to shove down other people's throats so you can feel superior. I dont live my life by your moral codes... nor do I care to hear what they are. I had the choice to abort, and I chose not too. Not because I was worried about burning in hell. But because I had the emotional and financial support to raise my child in a loving home. You would so best to remember not everyone has that blessing... or that support. As I have said repeatedly, push for a 100% full proof birth control method and I may actually change my mind on RvW. But at this point... its not gonna happen.

angelikaJ -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:24:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: You know, at one time the latest scientific study said the earth was flat and everyone agreed with it because it was a scientific study. Nonsense. Exactly my point. Using the latest scientific study to decide if we must avoid sailing off the edge of the world is like using the latest scientific study to decide when a yet unborn baby can feel pain, or dream, or hear their mother's voice as she sings to them because unless we sail out to the New World or ask that unborn child then one cannot say and this is okay because we are not meant to ask the child, we are meant to love our child. You misunderstood, Arturas. The whole flat earth myth is nonsense. Not because people once believed it, but because for the most part people didn't. Beginning with Pythagoras (6th century BC in case you have forgotten), the scientific information of the day was that the earth was not flat. The erroneous belief that people used to believe the earth was flat, appeared in school texts in the US in the 1860s. edit: bolding for clarity's sake

Kirata -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:41:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The religious right, which is the driving force behind the forced birth movement, would gleefully kill me and mine. I doubt the religious right would even give you passing notice, and I see nothing in the hateful stereotypes you peddle to recommend anyone else doing so either. K.

Hillwilliam -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:46:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas So you believe the decision to optionally slice up a baby and vacuum it out of the mother's womb is like the decision to go to the hospital because you must or fly on an airplane because you don't want to drive it and enjoy a vacation or business trip. I cannot relate. You said you wouldn't stake your life or another's on a study and I rebutted. Did your parents have any children who could read?

Hillwilliam -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:51:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas So you believe the decision to optionally slice up a baby and vacuum it out of the mother's womb is like the decision to go to the hospital because you must or fly on an airplane because you don't want to drive it and enjoy a vacation or business trip. I cannot relate. You define it as a baby. Legally, it isn't a baby until viability. It is a zygote, then it is a blastocyst, then it is a fetus. Please use proper terms or go back to elementary school science class until you learn them. Use proper English terms

Hillwilliam -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 8:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: You know, at one time the latest scientific study said the earth was flat and everyone agreed with it because it was a scientific study. Nonsense. Exactly my point. Using the latest scientific study to decide if we must avoid sailing off the edge of the world is like using the latest scientific study to decide when a yet unborn baby can feel pain, or dream, or hear their mother's voice as she sings to them because unless we sail out to the New World or ask that unborn child then one cannot say and this is okay because we are not meant to ask the child, we are meant to love our child. No scientific study ever said the earth was flat. Ignorant people said the earth was flat.

DomKen -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 10:56:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The religious right, which is the driving force behind the forced birth movement, would gleefully kill me and mine. I doubt the religious right would even give you passing notice, and I see nothing in the hateful stereotypes you peddle to recommend anyone else doing so either. K. Your hate is showing again. A couple more facts http://voices.yahoo.com/some-christians-think-killing-atheists-acceptable-11252078.html?cat=37

DomKen -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 11:03:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: You know, at one time the latest scientific study said the earth was flat and everyone agreed with it because it was a scientific study. Nonsense. Exactly my point. Using the latest scientific study to decide if we must avoid sailing off the edge of the world is like using the latest scientific study to decide when a yet unborn baby can feel pain, or dream, or hear their mother's voice as she sings to them because unless we sail out to the New World or ask that unborn child then one cannot say and this is okay because we are not meant to ask the child, we are meant to love our child. No scientific study ever said the earth was flat. Ignorant people said the earth was flat. This is one of those truly monumentally stupid myths that just won't die. Eratosthenes calculated the Earth's circumference during the 3rd century BCE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes Why would a cash strapped pair of monarchs, Isabella and Ferdinand, have invested in 3 ships plus supplies unless they thought they could sail to the Orient by going west? Having just waged a war with the previous Muslim rulers of Iberia the trade routes to the east were closed to them.

Kirata -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 11:07:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Your hate is showing again. http://voices.yahoo.com/some-christians-think-killing-atheists-acceptable-11252078.html?cat=37 Your hate is showing again. Some Muslims think killing Christians is acceptable. Want to go there with your pathetic excuses for slander? K.

DomKen -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/14/2013 11:18:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Your hate is showing again. http://voices.yahoo.com/some-christians-think-killing-atheists-acceptable-11252078.html?cat=37 Your hate is showing again. Some Muslims think killing Christians is acceptable. Want to go there with your pathetic excuses for slander? K. And I condemn them. However you were claiming an atheist has nothing to fear from the religious right. I just presented some pretty conclusive proof that that is not correct.

thishereboi -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/15/2013 4:28:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The religious right, which is the driving force behind the forced birth movement, would gleefully kill me and mine. I doubt the religious right would even give you passing notice, and I see nothing in the hateful stereotypes you peddle to recommend anyone else doing so either. K. Well I am on the right and I am religious and I can honestly say I don't give a rat's ass what he believes let alone want to kill him for it. But if he says it enough times maybe someone will fall for it and see him as the victim he seems to want to be.

thishereboi -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/15/2013 4:32:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Your hate is showing again. http://voices.yahoo.com/some-christians-think-killing-atheists-acceptable-11252078.html?cat=37 Your hate is showing again. Some Muslims think killing Christians is acceptable. Want to go there with your pathetic excuses for slander? K. And I condemn them. However you were claiming an atheist has nothing to fear from the religious right. I just presented some pretty conclusive proof that that is not correct. They don't, they have something to fear from "some christians". Of course they also have something to fear from the average nut case who might be in a bad mood the day they cross paths. So what's your point?

DomKen -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/15/2013 5:39:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Your hate is showing again. http://voices.yahoo.com/some-christians-think-killing-atheists-acceptable-11252078.html?cat=37 Your hate is showing again. Some Muslims think killing Christians is acceptable. Want to go there with your pathetic excuses for slander? K. And I condemn them. However you were claiming an atheist has nothing to fear from the religious right. I just presented some pretty conclusive proof that that is not correct. They don't, they have something to fear from "some christians". Of course they also have something to fear from the average nut case who might be in a bad mood the day they cross paths. So what's your point? My point is that the leaders of the religious right have demonized atheists to the point where some of their followers have killed atheists and felt they did the right thing and that I will not change how I live or what I support simply to appease people like that.

Marc2b -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/15/2013 6:58:37 AM)
quote: Your position, which I realize is one of a devil's advocate to an extent, is full of holes. Yes... but so is everybody else's. The fact of the matter is, "human" cannot be reliably defined to include everyone we want to while excluding everyone we want to. The situation is analogous to the evolution of species that I mentioned earlier. We arbitrarily draw line to include a range and state that anything within this range is "X." The problem comes with those individuals who fall just outside range we had dictated. Which came first the chicken or the egg? The answer is, the egg... but only because we drew a line a declared the thing that hatched out of the egg to be the first chicken. The problem is that the thing that laid the egg sure as hell looks like a chicken.

tazzygirl -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/15/2013 7:25:09 AM)
Problem is, I dont define in the terms of being "human", I define it in the terms of being "viable".

Marc2b -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/15/2013 12:30:47 PM)
quote: Problem is, I dont define in the terms of being "human", I define it in the terms of being "viable". Yes but "viable" is open to a wide range of interpretations as well. Certainly there are plenty of people, who've been outside of the womb for some time, who are not viable short of intervention with pharmaceuticals or other medical treatments. But I've already gone round on this once before on a similar thread some months back... going around too often makes me dizzy. Since I will be going out of town soon (Stratford Time!) and I don't want to leave things hanging, I think I'll make this my last post on this thread.

tazzygirl -> RE: End of discussion. "Fetal Pain Is A Lie..." (8/15/2013 12:37:38 PM)
quote: Yes but "viable" is open to a wide range of interpretations as well. Certainly there are plenty of people, who've been outside of the womb for some time, who are not viable short of intervention with pharmaceuticals or other medical treatments. Viable is defined by the ruling.... which is guided by the medical community... which is always looking for ways to improve on the old definition of viability. quote: who are not viable short of intervention with pharmaceuticals or other medical treatments. And yet when the medical community speaks about "fetal viability" they are including those who are able to be kept alive "with pharmaceuticals or other medical treatments." What did you think they meant? Or do you not understand what is being discussed?

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