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Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/11/2013 11:22:22 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/11/texas-tragedy-ample-oil-no-water


Apparently water rationing during drought doesn't include water used for fracking.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 8/11/2013 11:24:32 PM >

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/12/2013 3:05:09 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Apparently water rationing during drought doesn't include water used for fracking.

Why would it in a libertarian paradise like Texas? Surely the unfettered free market will provide plenty of fresh water.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/12/2013 3:23:31 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Who knows why that idiot Cameron is pushing for this in the UK. The pitfalls are already well known.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 8/12/2013 3:24:00 AM >

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/12/2013 3:55:09 AM   
extrmsadistseeks


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Status: offline 		Will not matter much, unless you change the mindset of the general public and the use of water in general.
Florida has been in drought now for over 12 years.Sinkholes are a direct result of the changing sediment layers which hold up the upper crust. We hare having water wars between the large metro areas and the smaller cities. Both coast lines already have salt water intrusion to the degree that their wells can no longer be used.You cannot eat gold,silver, sand,oil and water you need a lot more then food.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/12/2013 6:10:32 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Who knows why that idiot Cameron is pushing for this in the UK. The pitfalls are already well known.


I don't think you have to use fresh water for fracking. If not, I don't see why it would be a problem for you guys. You certainly have easy access to all the sea water you'd need. Of course, I can see why it could create some serious issues with salt and chemicals in the fresh water table if they aren't pumping deep enough. I expect the only reason they're using fresh water here is because it's cheaper to get than pumping sea water across the country.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/12/2013 10:08:46 PM   
DOMGMR


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Status: offline 		Their are ways to reuse the very same water they inject but most of the companies are too cheap and lazy to do it.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/12/2013 11:28:23 PM   
Zonie63


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Status: offline 		Water has been a problem in the Southwest for as long as I can remember. People like moving to the arid and semi-arid climate of the Sun Belt, but there was never enough water to support a population this large. The Colorado River is being sucked dry. It doesn't make it all the way to the Gulf of California anymore. It's just a kind of marshland at its mouth, as there isn't much water left at that point to make a river.

I'm not sure how Texas operates in this regard. Arizona and California have huge aqueduct and water delivery systems crossing hundreds of miles - quite a massive undertaking to keep waterhogs like the Phoenix and L.A. metro areas with a reliable water supply, so they can have lush green lawns and pretend that they're not living in a desert.

From the article, it seems that these Texas towns have been relying on local wells which are going dry, forcing them to bring in water by truck. I'm not sure if there's any short term solution, but they may have to consider building a similar system.

I remember reading a while back that Canada has a huge supply of fresh water, maybe the biggest in the world. That's good to know, in case we need some more water down here.

Desalinization plants are another option, although my understanding is that they're too expensive to be economically feasible. But perhaps more research and development in that area might make it more feasible in the future.


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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 3:10:08 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Who knows why that idiot Cameron is pushing for this in the UK. The pitfalls are already well known.


I don't think you have to use fresh water for fracking. If not, I don't see why it would be a problem for you guys. You certainly have easy access to all the sea water you'd need. Of course, I can see why it could create some serious issues with salt and chemicals in the fresh water table if they aren't pumping deep enough. I expect the only reason they're using fresh water here is because it's cheaper to get than pumping sea water across the country.



As you rightly say, the flaw in your argument is that sea water would make fresh water undrinkable. I have to say after watching "Gasland" I am convinced fracking is unsafe.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 3:44:03 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
...I am convinced fracking is unsafe.

Many of us in the UK are against fracking.
The pitfalls are blindingly obvious - mini earthquakes etc.
The drawbacks (ie, water table contamination) are also obvious.
And for those areas that are not based on real solid bedrock, we are likely to make sink holes that plague Florida and other US areas.

We have witnessed some of the problems already with just the few test fracking bits we've done so far.
There are quite a few problems already showing in the US where it has been more extensive.

Why the fuck are we even attempting to do this shit??
Because cockroach cameron only sees £££'s for the treasury.
And that's the size of it.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 3:47:09 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 4:10:55 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I remember reading a while back that Canada has a huge supply of fresh water, maybe the biggest in the world. That's good to know, in case we need some more water down here.

Desalinization plants are another option, although my understanding is that they're too expensive to be economically feasible. But perhaps more research and development in that area might make it more feasible in the future.


We have an international treaty with Canada that prevents us from pumping water out of the Great Lakes any further than 150 miles or so and I have to admit my bias in support of that since I live in Michigan. We don't like the idea of pumping water south so everyone down there can have nice green lawns, swimming pools, and golf courses when we use so much of it for farming.

Saudi Arabia uses large-scale desalinization systems for most of it's water but I'm sure it's because they can afford it. I'd be interested in knowing how much they spend on it yearly.

Personally, I'd like to know why we haven't dammed up a portion of the Grand Canyon and used the Colorado River(?) to fill it up.


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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 4:29:00 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		According to several sources SA produces about 24 million m^3 of fresh water per day at a cost of between $0.40 and $0.90 per m^3, depending on the price of oil. Which works out be between $3.5 billion and $8 billion per year.
http://hir.harvard.edu/pressing-change/saudi-arabia-and-desalination-0

Also we have dammed the Colorado river. The Hoover Dam is the best known one but there are several others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dams_in_the_Colorado_River_system

As a matter of fact the Grand Canyon is deteriorating because the flow of water has been reduced so much.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/08/23/grand.canyon.threats/index.html

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 5:13:05 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

According to several sources SA produces about 24 million m^3 of fresh water per day at a cost of between $0.40 and $0.90 per m^3, depending on the price of oil. Which works out be between $3.5 billion and $8 billion per year.

For 260 gallons per m^3 even at $1.00 per m^3 you're at something like $0.004 per gallon. That's pretty cheap. Seems like it should be easier for us to do it on a larger scale.


quote:


As a matter of fact the Grand Canyon is deteriorating because the flow of water has been reduced so much.

I have to admit that I'm one of those people that's believed for a long time that we should be engineering our waterways however possible to conserve fresh water. As much as I love the view from above the Grand Canyon, it's still not much more than a giant hole in the ground. Dam it and fill it. We don't need to use the entire thing. There's plenty of real estate for a national park and another water reserve.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 5:19:16 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

According to several sources SA produces about 24 million m^3 of fresh water per day at a cost of between $0.40 and $0.90 per m^3, depending on the price of oil. Which works out be between $3.5 billion and $8 billion per year.

For 260 gallons per m^3 even at $1.00 per m^3 you're at something like $0.004 per gallon. That's pretty cheap. Seems like it should be easier for us to do it on a larger scale.


quote:


As a matter of fact the Grand Canyon is deteriorating because the flow of water has been reduced so much.

I have to admit that I'm one of those people that's believed for a long time that we should be engineering our waterways however possible to conserve fresh water. As much as I love the view from above the Grand Canyon, it's still not much more than a giant hole in the ground. Dam it and fill it. We don't need to use the entire thing. There's plenty of real estate for a national park and another water reserve.

We already do use the entire Colorado river.
None of it reaches the ocean any more.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 5:21:06 AM   
ShaharThorne


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Status: offline 		One day, I read the entire watering situation pertaining to the state of Texas...it has plans for several lakes to be constructed, one being near me.

As for fracking, I am against it. Sure it provides jobs but it is also dangerous to both human and the environment. The leftover water is tainted, can't be use for anything. It messes with the plates, causing small earthquakes. There are basically no vehicles that use natural gas unless you count the buses in the major cities...nothing for the average Joe and his car.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 5:35:52 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I remember reading a while back that Canada has a huge supply of fresh water, maybe the biggest in the world. That's good to know, in case we need some more water down here.

hey.. keep yer grubby little paws off Canada's water!!!

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 5:50:22 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne
There are basically no vehicles that use natural gas unless you count the buses in the major cities...nothing for the average Joe and his car.

You can use CNG (compressed natural gas) for vehicles, its been around for decades.. my ex was into that shite a long time ago.. but no one wants to covert their vehicles to that and there were problems with vehicles not running very well.. not sure if they have made any progress on that, I see it advertised recently.. of course you need filling stations all over which is a big drawback and mechanics that know how to repair them.. given what I know about it, I would rather buy a scooter or motorcycle instead.. I was looking at the stats and they get 80mpg.. (yes, they are more dangerous of course)..

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 6:02:14 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
We already do use the entire Colorado river.
None of it reaches the ocean any more.

Yeah, I already caught that part. I'm just throwing ideas at the dart board. But if fresh water is that important to everyone in the desert regions, there are ways to get it there from other sources. You just gotta be willing to think big enough. Would it be worth digging a canal to Canada if it provided enough water for everything? Why not? What about finding ways to capture extra flood waters from rivers and pump it into underground reservoirs? If New Orleans can pump the ocean out of it's space then why not use the same technology? I'm not saying any of that is cheap or easy, I'm just saying it might be worth considering something other than just bitching about the gas-frackers.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 7:17:55 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

According to several sources SA produces about 24 million m^3 of fresh water per day at a cost of between $0.40 and $0.90 per m^3, depending on the price of oil. Which works out be between $3.5 billion and $8 billion per year.

For 260 gallons per m^3 even at $1.00 per m^3 you're at something like $0.004 per gallon. That's pretty cheap. Seems like it should be easier for us to do it on a larger scale.

That is very large scale, SA needs 20+ plants, most with attached power plants, to produce that much water. Also keep in mind the distances involved. West Texas is a long way from a coastline.

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RE: Texas wells dry from drought & fracking - 8/13/2013 7:45:39 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Who knows why that idiot Cameron is pushing for this in the UK. The pitfalls are already well known.

Seriously? You seriously don't know? OK granted the UK is not the US or Canada but in the political systems I'm aware of the answer to that question is easy, "Because he's paid to support it."

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