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RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 2:09:12 PM

Apocalypso

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

Due to the several "heated" debates that have transpired here recently, I couldn't help but wonder...

Why is it that so many feel that their understanding of BDSM is absolute, and that any variation from that is somehow wrong, and thus must be stamped out, and exorcised?

Obviously, not everyone feels this way, but it seems to be a popular point of view.

The concept that there is no absolute understanding of BDSM is in itself an absolute position, no? Philosophical quandaries aside, the possible reasons for this are as varied as BDSM is.

A few possibilities.

The poster is genuinely unable to intellectually or emotionally differentiate between how they do BDSM and BDSM as a whole.

It's a safety issue. Other people have mentioned this, but it's probably the big one where we may actually be dealing with objective facts. (Unless we're butterflies dreaming of being BDSMers or something).

The poster is feeling insecure about being relatively inexperienced and is massively overcompensating.

The purpose of the posts is not to join in the discussion, it's to attract potential partners. The online equivalent of showing off your plumage.

Trolllolololololol.

SSC has been misunderstood as a rigid set of rules, as opposed to a guideline and the poster is repeating it like a mantra to ward off bad things. (You occasionally see this with RACK, but far less frequently).

It's a misunderstanding of the post and in fact isn't the case. That happens relatively often I think. I refuse to litter my posts with "IMO" and "YMMV". It should be self-evident. Whose opinion did you think it was in? Rudolf II, Holy Roman Emperor?

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 41

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 2:16:52 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

Here is a textbook example of what you are talking about:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/sports/global/russian-pole-vaulter-defends-law-on-homosexuality.html?ref=global&_r=0

“It’s unrespectful to our country,” she said at a news conference Thursday. “It’s unrespectful to our citizens because we are Russians. Maybe we are different than European people, than other people from different lands. We have our law, which everyone has to respect.”

“It’s my opinion also,” she said, adding: “You know, to do all this stuff on the street, we are very afraid about our nation, because we consider ourselves like normal, standard people. We just live boys with women, and women with boys.”

She added, “It comes from history.”

Isinbayeva’s comments immediately made her the law’s most prominent defender, but opinion polls have shown that she is hardly alone, with about 88 percent of the Russian public supporting it.

“When we arrive to different cultures, we try to follow their rules,” Isinbayeva said. “We are not trying to set our rules over there. We just try to be respectable. And also we ask everyone to be respectful to our place, to our culture, to our people.”

----------

As is the case in Russia, the posters who get beat up on the CMMB are the minority kinksters and deviants. The criticism of them masquerades as other things: "I'm just expressing what my hard limits are," or "I prefer 'real' men / women," "don't try to force your kink upon me," and of course the old tried and true "take your wank fodder out of here."

The less popular, more off color the kink or behavior --- the angrier, more hostile, and less supportive are the responders.

In my view, malesubs are at the bottom of the BDSM totem pole -- for societal and numbers reasons. We are most likely to be inexperienced and we are most likely to have interests that women (and men) actively dislike. In my experience, if a malesub, in any way violates the norms of this message board, he might likely be eviscerated.

Here is an example to prove my point.

Look at this thread:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4522495/tm.htm

If a male sub asks this question --- it might get moved to off topic discussion as wank fodder, respondents will claim they don't want to feed his kink while claiming they are not a kink-delivery system, and in general the thread has a high chance of being a train wreck.

I don't say this to put malesubs in the poor-me martyr position, rather I just position them in the minority position.

Minority kinksters rarely (if ever) piss upon polyamory, impact play, TPE, bondage, etc. Majority opinions and tastes are the ones most likely to metastasize into a bigoted truths, attitudes, or opinions. Just ask the 88% of Russians who oppose gay rights.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/16/2013 2:22:11 PM >

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 42

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 2:48:33 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Although I see your point, it isn't entirely true.

Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe.

HOWEVER, I was also raised with enough class, and have enough life experience to accept that not everyone share's my view, and I am perfectly fine with that. I will not tell a female Domme that she is not a "true" dominant, or tell a male sub that he should not allow a woman to control him. Why? Because everyone is entitled to live as they wish, call themselves whatever they choose, and exercise their right to free speech regardless of what I think. The exception being that by exercising those freedoms you infringe upon another's ability to exercise their freedoms.

If asked my opinion, I will give it. If I believe that I have a relevant thought to share in a discussion, I will share it. When you reply, and tell me that although you can appreciate my view, but that you don't agree, I will accept it. Not try to convert you to my way of thinking. It's really about respect and tolerance for others at the end of the day.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 43

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 2:58:03 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I'm going to disagree.

IMO: I view a good Dominant as a good leader. That means he should know when force is appropriate and when the better move is to walk away. Trying to assert dominance over a stranger on a forum is futile. It doesn't prove dominance. It doesn't prove strength. It just proves an inability to judge situations. And I will take quiet strength and good judgement over chest thumping aggression. (dominant vs domineering)

I like to think that I exercise sound judgment, especially in dynamic, chaotic environments where life and death decisions must be made in milliseconds. I have a twenty year track record of doing just that.

I think that being a Dominant comes with a great responsibility for those willing to give you the gift of submission. I am not entitled to that gift by virtue of being born a male, I have earned it over time, through action. I also believe that by accepting that gift, I am responsible to navigate this dynamic in a manner that is mutually beneficial to the dynamic as a whole, as well as the individuals involved. IMO, this awareness of the totality of the dynamic including my awareness of the potential for emotional / mental damage to the sub based upon my actions, is what makes me a good Dominant. It is my leadership skills which allow me to navigate the dynamic, as needed.

But back to your statement. Most A-type males, exhibit Dominant traits, and are prone to aggression. That has been proven by science, and is attributed to our most primal coding. Obviously we have evolved into civilized society, but these personality traits are still present.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 44

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 3:01:43 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe.

quote:

HOWEVER, I was also raised with enough class, and have enough life experience to accept that not everyone share's my view, and I am perfectly fine with that. I will not tell a female Domme that she is not a "true" dominant, or tell a male sub that he should not allow a woman to control him. ....

Lol.... But you just did... To every single Female dominant woman on these boards and then some

Class indeed lmao

hear that LP. You not a true Dominant! I fucking knew it!!!!!!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 45

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 3:47:27 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

I almost spit coffee out of my nose when reading your response!

The entire reason that I joined the forum, was to start intelligent discussions, reflect on other's commentary, and give my opinion when I feel that it is relevant to the discussion, in an attempt to identify the Holy Master of all that is BDSM so that I can learn from his Almightyness and hopefully someday acquire his super powers!

And now I have found him! It's you! Holy crap!

So before this gets out of hand, let's clear some things up.

I stated my PERSONAL belief, which is not going to change. So deal with it.

I shared said belief because I felt it was relevant to the post made by cloudboy. And in fact, the point of what I said was about exercising tolerance of other's beliefs. Maybe you missed that. Not surprised.

This is the second thread that I started that you wandered into and tried to flame up.

And finally, I made it pretty clear in this and other posts, I don't need your permission, acceptance, or endorsement to participate here, or post whatever I choose, grand poobah of cm. Have a great day!

< Message edited by WarMachine904 -- 8/16/2013 3:48:51 PM >

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 46

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 4:05:55 PM

VideoAdminRho

Posts: 2055
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

And finally, I made it pretty clear in this and other posts, I don't need your permission, acceptance, or endorsement to participate here, or post whatever I choose, grand poobah of cm. Have a great day!

As long as it stays within the guidelines and ToS of the forums.

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 47

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 4:10:32 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Rho,

I'm not making any promises, but I am trying to behave. :)

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to VideoAdminRho)

Post #: 48

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 6:58:13 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Me? I don't care what you do to your wife as long as a) it doesn't affect Me in any way whatsoever, b) it doesn't affect the play spaces that I frequent, c) is something that you can contain within your household while your dynamic is current and d) your wife never turns the tables on you and decides after the fact that she's been abused.

Yeah, as evidenced by your 57 "cheaters are horrible" posts on that other current thread and so many others

luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 49

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 7:10:03 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso
The poster is feeling insecure about being relatively inexperienced and is massively overcompensating.

Actually, I'd like to give a less dark version of this. I know when I was brand new I was lost and adrift... stranger in a strange land looking for landmarks and signposts. So "the rules" seemed important because as crappy of a map as they might be... they were better than nothing. It wasn't so much overcompensating for anything as grabbing onto a life ring in the storm. Once I got my feet under me and could actually look around and understand "the rules" got promptly jettisoned.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Apocalypso)

Post #: 50

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 7:13:16 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Interesting point, Jeff.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 51

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 7:27:21 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

You don't believe a female can be dominant? Or you just are offended by that ideology? I have no choice to be anything else, I just am dominant, and the funny part of that is I am not the dominant in my relationship, I am however his equal but believe me I am a dominant female in my day to day life. My partner and I have for over two decade run a contracting business and its me that does the hiring, the firing, the disciplinary actions because I am more suited for it and the male employees have fits at times I can tell. Suck it up boys, your boss is a woman. And in a male dominated field no less. Female dominance doesn't always just exist in the world of BDSM as I am sure you know. Wait til 2016. ;-) The ultimate femdom will be running the free world.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 52

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/16/2013 7:51:08 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

Aynne,

I did not say that a female can not be a dominant. I'm not even offended by the ideology. I just do not comprehend it.

The lack of comprehension on my part does not make it any less real to those who identify themselves as such. So I respectfully agree to disagree, no harm done. I don't try to coerce them into submitting, and I hope that they don't try to coerce me either, as it would not go well.

As for your political hopeful.........I promised the Mods I would try to behave, as they are tiring of sending me gold lettered messages.

< Message edited by WarMachine904 -- 8/16/2013 7:53:45 PM >

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to Aynne88)

Post #: 53

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/17/2013 12:04:07 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe.

quote:

HOWEVER, I was also raised with enough class, and have enough life experience to accept that not everyone share's my view, and I am perfectly fine with that. I will not tell a female Domme that she is not a "true" dominant, or tell a male sub that he should not allow a woman to control him. ....

Lol.... But you just did... To every single Female dominant woman on these boards and then some

Class indeed lmao

hear that LP. You not a true Dominant! I fucking knew it!!!!!!

Say what??? not comprehending something isn't the same as not believing it exists

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 54

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/17/2013 12:17:26 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Me? I don't care what you do to your wife as long as a) it doesn't affect Me in any way whatsoever, b) it doesn't affect the play spaces that I frequent, c) is something that you can contain within your household while your dynamic is current and d) your wife never turns the tables on you and decides after the fact that she's been abused.

Yeah, as evidenced by your 57 "cheaters are horrible" posts on that other current thread and so many others

luci

Why would you imagine that cheaters do not effect Me? How many nights does your husband have to go and sit "suicide watch" over this conflict?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 55

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/17/2013 12:39:22 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
Personally, I object to the idea of a male sub or a female dominant. I can't understand how either can exist. To me it is like a parallel universe.

Greetings. My name is Lady Pact. It is a pleasure to formally meet you.

What we are about to do here is often called a lesson in learning. We shall discuss furthering your education so that ignorance can be left aside.

My dear, ask yourself this question. What about you makes you Dominant? Is it that little thing between your legs? That, literal six to nine inches that God bestowed upon you?

Dude, sexual Dominance is weak. Any idiot can do that.

Dominance isn't about sex. Thinking that it is would be small.

If it were all about that, I wouldn't even bother wasting My time.

Yeah, tell Me that I'm not Dominant because I don't have a penis.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 8/17/2013 12:41:20 AM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 56

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/17/2013 12:55:01 AM

AaNiMaLl

Posts: 78
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

I also agree, in that I find a female dominant unnatural. I say that with utmost gentleness :). It is my feeling and I hold that over no one else.

As for this Ben Elton book, here is a quote that fits with the thread that I grabbed off the net. The only way that I can really talk about it is with someone that has read the book. I left my copy with a friend in jail. ...The book is based on ideas from George Orwell and has tones of A Brave New World.

"The internet was supposed to liberate knowledge, but in fact it buried it, first under a vast sewer of ignorance, laziness, bigotry, superstition and filth and then beneath the cloak of political surveillance. Now...cyberspace exists exclusively to promote commerce, gossip and pornography. And of course to hunt down sedition. Only paper is safe. Books are the key. A book cannot be accessed from afar, you have to hold it, you have to read it.”

I tend to agree, there is something about a book that can change your life.

< Message edited by AaNiMaLl -- 8/17/2013 1:00:05 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 57

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/17/2013 4:52:49 AM

metamorfosis

Posts: 1132
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
Due to the several "heated" debates that have transpired here recently, I couldn't help but wonder...

Why is it that so many feel that their understanding of BDSM is absolute, and that any variation from that is somehow wrong, and thus must be stamped out, and exorcised?

I'm going to have to go with "because this is a forum". It might be just as well to ask, why do so many react so strongly at hearing their opinion controverted?

_____________________________

Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 58

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/17/2013 6:04:19 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904

Aynne,

I did not say that a female can not be a dominant. I'm not even offended by the ideology. I just do not comprehend it.

The lack of comprehension on my part does not make it any less real to those who identify themselves as such. So I respectfully agree to disagree, no harm done. I don't try to coerce them into submitting, and I hope that they don't try to coerce me either, as it would not go well.

As for your political hopeful.........I promised the Mods I would try to behave, as they are tiring of sending me gold lettered messages.

I'm going to take a great big stab in the dark and say you were in the military at some point. Did you never have any superior female officers? Did none of them strike you as having actually earned those stripes? Please think about that for a bit, then come back and tell me you can't comprehend dominant females.

LadyP is right, for you dominance is all about sex. Which means you are very new or very limited in your understanding (or both). Please consider this before you decide to take umbrage with some long term posters who have been doing this for 10 or 20 or 30 years and quite possibly have a very different perspective than your own.

I'm going to submit my own theory on dominance and submission: No one is 100% dom or 100% sub, we *all* have aspects of our personality that fall within both categories. I view it as a long continuum, with dom on one end and sub on the other, and people ranging on one side or the other. And since people change, their dom or sub factor is not a fixed point.

(BTW I feel the same way about male and female, no one is 100% 'male,' and about gender preference, no one is 100% hetro or homo.)

To style yourself as an uber dominant, you forget your softer, more feminine side, and that's the side that tempers your dominance with compassion. When you can do that, you won't be just a dom male, you'll have a chance to be a good one.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 8/17/2013 6:05:53 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 59

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/17/2013 8:12:15 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
I did not say that a female can not be a dominant. I'm not even offended by the ideology. I just do not comprehend it.

Really? This kind of makes me wonder what it means to be dominant in your mind? Is this something to do with physical size? What's the rub in your head with a female and dominance? Yeah yeah, you'll take a lot of heat if we pursue this path but if you're up for it I'm curious.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 60

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